22000 class on the Midleton/Cobh services

dowlingm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80246451@N02/8616656951/in/photostream/

I guess there's a shortage of 2600/2800 in Cork?

Judgement Day

Great to see. Use them everywhere so that they are soon unfit for inter-city work. Arguably many of them already are - certainly some that I have used on the Rosslare line are distinctly grubby. The MkIIIs were hardly in a wet weekend when they were used on GAA specials. :rolleyes:

dowlingm

At the same time though I'd rather see 22s on Tralee-Mallow-Cork diagrams rather than 26/28s holding up the show on the mainline. But IE is the company that still sends 29Ks to Belfast so...

Jamie2k9

ICR's should not be allowed to operate at regular speeds below 50mph and stopping every 2 minutes. That is what 2600.2800.2900 are for. Some of them are in wrecked by now.

How hard can it be to get the right trains on the right services? The 2600s and 2800s should still be in Dublin. There also should be no more ICRs on Kildare (I know that they wanted a common fleet out of Heuston but I don't consider that acceptable) or Drogheda services while Rosslare and Belfast are still made deal with 29000s at times. Are they still put on some Sligo services?

Jamie2k9

Karsini wrote: »

How hard can it be to get the right trains on the right services? The 2600s and 2800s should still be in Dublin. There also should be no more ICRs on Kildare (I know that they wanted a common fleet out of Heuston but I don't consider that acceptable) or Drogheda services while Rosslare and Belfast are still made deal with 29000s at times. Are they still put on some Sligo services?

Although I don't agree with the ICR's on the Kildare/Portlaoise runs it has to happen so 100mph can be allowed on sections. This is not an issue out of Connolly and at least they can operate better from Heuston. Many of the sets on the route from Heuston do a return service and then get moved to an intercity route.

2900 are fine for Belfast, some Sligo services are 2900 not ideal but it saves a stock movement which costs money that they don't have. 2900 on Rosslare is only for crowding reasons.

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Although I don't agree with the ICR's on the Kildare/Portlaoise runs it has to happen so 100mph can be allowed on sections. This is not an issue out of Connolly and at least they can operate better from Heuston.

2900 are fine for Belfast, some Sligo services are 2900 not ideal but it saves a stock movement which costs money that they don't have. 2900 on Rosslare is only for crowding reasons.

They're probably fine from an operational point of view but certainly not for passengers. I've often gotten headaches on 29000s only going from Drumcondra to Clonsilla. I'd dread the thought of getting one any farther that that.

Are there any 100mph sections from Heuston to Kildare? I know that south of Cherryville it does get up to 100.

Jamie2k9

Are there any 100mph sections from Heuston to Kildare? I know that south of Cherryville it does get up to 100.

Hazelhatch-Portarlington is signed as 90 however I have a suspicion that the Cork trains operate at 100 and the ICR's are limited to 90. When on the Mark 4's they always seem like they are way faster than the ICR's. There is no excuse not to have 100mph on that section for the ICR's.

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Although I don't agree with the ICR's on the Kildare/Portlaoise runs it has to happen so 100mph can be allowed on sections. This is not an issue out of Connolly and at least they can operate better from Heuston. Many of the sets on the route from Heuston do a return service and then get moved to an intercity route.

2900 are fine for Belfast, some Sligo services are 2900 not ideal but it saves a stock movement which costs money that they don't have. 2900 on Rosslare is only for crowding reasons.

Very few services to Kildare these days; most local services operate to Portlaoise and beyond Hazelhatch ICR achieve max line speeed easily. Silly to restrict speeds to 70mph 26/28/29.

Jamie2k9

kc56 wrote: »

Very few services to Kildare these days; most local services operate to Portlaoise and beyond Hazelhatch ICR achieve max line speeed easily. Silly to restrict speeds to 70mph 26/28/29.

They drop to 90 once they leave hazelhatch and why would IE have it all signed as 90 if all services were allowed to do 100.

Solair

They'll be using the MK4s on the DART next!

Seems a bit of a waste to have an intercity train on what is basically a slow moving commuter service more suited to being light rail!

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hazelhatch-Portarlington is signed as 90 however I have a suspicion that the Cork trains operate at 100 and the ICR's are limited to 90. When on the Mark 4's they always seem like they are way faster than the ICR's. There is no excuse not to have 100mph on that section for the ICR's.

Doubt that MkIV do 100 and ICRs 90. The track side signs are a max speed.

Real problem is that the track between Hazelhatch and Portarlington is some of the oldest on the route and carries the highest level of traffic. You'll notice how the ride gets worse as soon as a train passes Hazelhatch despite slowing down to 90. While a lot of the network got new track, that section was mostly left untouched.

kc56

kc56 wrote: »

Real problem is that the track between Hazelhatch and Portarlington is some of the oldest on the route and carries the highest level of traffic. You'll notice how the ride gets worse as soon as a train passes Hazelhatch despite slowing down to 90. While a lot of the network got new track, that section was mostly left untouched.

I remember that part of that section had a blanket 75mph limit imposed on it a few years ago.

Jamie2k9

Real problem is that the track between Hazelhatch and Portarlington is some of the oldest on the route and carries the highest level of traffic. You'll notice how the ride gets worse as soon as a train passes Hazelhatch despite slowing down to 90. While a lot of the network got new track, that section was mostly left untouched.

A large amount between Hazelhatch and Nass is new but your right the rest is old. Those points at Sallins take serous knocks when ICR's are not stopping, not so bad when the Mark 4 run.

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

A large amount between Hazelhatch and Nass is new but your right the rest is old. Those points at Sallins take serous knocks when ICR's are not stopping,

You should have felt the rock when they did 90mph before the new track and points were installed a few years ago. It was so bad that some drivers slowed going through Sallins towards Dublin until they slapped a 25mph limit on it.

Judging by the ride, Sallins to Hazelhatch up is not bad.

Jamie2k9

kc56 wrote: »

You should have felt the rock when they did 90mph before the new track and points were installed a few years ago. It was so bad that some drivers slowed going through Sallins towards Dublin until they slapped a 25mph limit on it.

Judging by the ride, Sallins to Hazelhatch up is not bad.

Yeah I remember some drivers did slow, it is much smoother between Sallins and Hazelhatch than the other direction alright. Don't know what the issue with the points there is compared to others at Newbridge of Kildare.

LXFlyer

Karsini wrote: »

How hard can it be to get the right trains on the right services? The 2600s and 2800s should still be in Dublin. There also should be no more ICRs on Kildare (I know that they wanted a common fleet out of Heuston but I don't consider that acceptable) or Drogheda services while Rosslare and Belfast are still made deal with 29000s at times. Are they still put on some Sligo services?

An ICR worked to/from Midleton - big deal. Occasionally in any transport company a swap will have to be made for operational reasons, such as a defective train.

From what I understand that is exactly what happened on this occasion. There is a set swap to/from Portlaoise every Wednesday of the ICR sets on Kerry. The set heading north ran into some problems which resulted in the set coming from Portlaoise arriving in Mallow too late to operate the scheduled trip to Kerry. A 2600 replaced it and the ICR then operated that set's duty to/from Midleton.

Nothing more sinister than that. Surely to God as users of public transport we should be thankful that with the flexibility that railcars offer that this sort of easy substitution can happen, and services are not cancelled.

Of course it's not ideal, but we don't live in a perfect world and problems can and do occur from time to time.

As for Kildare, as pointed out above virtually all the local services out of Heuston now operate to/from Portlaoise this enabling sets to operate in service to/from the depot for servicing. Running 29000s on such services would be a total waste of time.

It's not really the use of ICRs on short services that I see as a "big deal" - it's the opposite - effectively wasting ICRs where they could be better used elsewhere. I'm not that bothered about them being used on Cobh or Midleton runs but there's still times where they'll send a 2600 to Tralee. I regularly ended up on 2700s on Tralee line services and I hated them, even more than the Cravens they replaced. Commuter stock should be used on just that - commuter routes. I see this purely from a passenger's point of view.

I understand about the Kildare services running to Portlaoise more and more, so I'll accept that.

LXFlyer

Well there are only 2 ICRS based in Cork. If one goes defective what do you suggest they do? Run a bus instead of a 2600?

In emergencies or breakdown situations you make do with what you have. So if it has to be a 2600, so be it. But I don't agree with, for example, running an ICR to Midleton while running a 2600 to Tralee. In such a situation it should always be the other way round.

LXFlyer

Indeed it should - but the point is that there was no ICR available to go to Tralee, due to the set arriving late from Portlaoise (as a result of a mechanical defect).

The only available set was a 2600, and the ICR, when it eventually got to Cork, operated that 2600's duty to Midleton.

You're being far too black and white with this. Do you expect trains to be magicked out of thin air? The only other option would have been to cancel the train to Tralee and replace it with a bus.

I'd rather not have the 2600s there at all but I guess they're needed for the Cork local services. So yeah, I think you have me on that one. :pac:

end of the road

commuter trains should be only on commuter routes except for an absolute emergency, we have so many ICRS that a few are in rolling storage at a time, so many commuter trains that a whole class is now on the biodegration program yet we can't find enough trains for the right services, of course if they bought the ICRS in sets of 2 instead of sets of 3 we would be finished with the 29s on the odd rosslare and bellfast service (and no, their not find for those services) but of course no that would make sense, and no don't try using the "cost" excuse, it costs money to run a railway, if you spend little, expect little back