Puppy food - bull mastiff

Shirley2013

Hi, just wondering if anyone had any advice on what food I should be feeding my 5 month old bull mastiff. He will eat anything! At the moment he is in purina adult dog food as he was too hungry on the puppy variety. My concern is that there are fillers in it!
I can't afford to spend a fortune but am willing to pay a reasonable amount to keep my baby healthy!!

On a side note, I have had him three weeks and have crate trained him. He has been absolutely terrific and never messes in the house. Suddenly this week he gas started peeing and pooping in the house. Even if I have just had him outside he will hold it and go inside!! Any ideas??

Thanks

Nody

Orijen/Acana is expensive on paper but due to quality they tend to eat least; you could also consider raw if you're up for it

Shirley2013

I was thinking about raw! I would have no issue other then, I wonder if it would be enough food for him. He is very hungry and already 27kg at 5 months old next week. The cost seems high too

andreac

Raw can be quite costly unless you buy in bulk.

Whats your monthly budget for food and we can try and recommend something for you. Just ebar in mind, puppies can always come across starving, or some dogs more than others. My 3 year old rottie bitch is just a greedy madam and is hungry 24/7 so dont let that fool you to thinking they are hungry when they are just being greedy.

Shirley2013

Wow 38% protein in orijen!! He's an indoor dog and a bull mastiff at the so very very gassy!!! Lol
Thanks Andrea, €30-€40a month. Does that sound reasonable??

andreac

Yeah absolutely. Theres a few foods that would be around that price range. Redmills, Gain, and im sure there are a few others. I feed one thats similar to Arden Grange, it can be bought over in Irish Rosettes Pet store near Rush, are you near Dublin by any chance?

If hes very gassy then id imagine thats the food causing it. They shouldnt be overly gassy apart from the odd one here and there lol.

westies4ever

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/nutro/adult/136361

Op I feed this one to my two westies. I get 2 and a half months out of a 12kg bag so you should get a month. There is a large breed version as well.

Their coat and skin is in great condition with it. My female had terrible skin allergies which have cleared up and my male would have cleared a small town with his farts and i've no bother there either. zooplus give reward points with every purchase as well which can be exchanged for toys n treats etc.

as for the house training, just keep at it. hes still only a baby and a few accidents are to be expected. stay outside with him when he goes and when he dos his business act like he just gave you a million euros and give him a treat with lots of praise. he'll soon get it.

any pics btw?

BillyMitchel

Royal Cainin giant puppy? €27 for 4kg

It's what I feed my Dogo and it seems to be doing him great. Also mix it up with some mince and chicken every so often and he loves it. Works out about €40 a wk for everything.

Edit: sorry just seen your budget.

andreac

You need to be very careful feeding large breed pups high protein food as it can cause problems sometimes, eg Pano, growing pains.

I would aim for maybe 24-26% protein.

Shirley2013

Thank you everyone! Yes I'm trying to find lower protein options but it seems the cleaner the food the higher it is in protein!! Ill try that website than you so much!!
Did u want a pic of the dog or the poop on my rug lol.... How do I post a pic??

Shirley2013

Got it I think

BillyMitchel

andreac wrote: »

You need to be very careful feeding large breed pups high protein food as it can cause problems sometimes, eg Pano, growing pains.

I would aim for maybe 24-26% protein.

Andrea was that for me? Do you think he's getting too much? As I said its not everyday, only problem that pops up every now and again is that if its just the dry food he'd look up at me as if to say where's the rest!

Shirley2013

Ok so I'm thinking royal canine giant breed puppy? Any have any idea how much he should be getting per day at 5 months old and 27kg??
Thanks

westies4ever

Shirley2013 wrote: »

Got it I think

OMG he only GORGEOUS!!!! :D

BillyMitchel

Shirley2013 wrote: »

Ok so I'm thinking royal canine giant breed puppy? Any have any idea how much he should be getting per day at 5 months old and 27kg??
Thanks

2 cups 3 times a day. Ruffly (couldn't resist) what will be his fully grown weight? 40-50kg?

andreac

Personally I wouldn't feed royal canin. It's the last one I'd recommend to be honest. It's very very expensive.
. There's much better out there for cheaper.
No billy, it was aimed at the op.

andreac

Bullmastiffs are much heavier than 50kg at adult weight. My male Rottie is 50 so a male bullmastiff will be way more than that.

westies4ever

andreac wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't feed royal canin. It's the last one I'd recommend to be honest. It's very very expensive.
. There's much better out there for cheaper.
No billy, it was aimed at the op.

agreed - its gone downhill and is expensive. i took mine off it a couple of years back. shame cos it used to be really good.

Shirley2013

Lol yes about 50-60 kg

ISDW

Royal Canin may seem expensive, but like other high quality foods, you feed less of it, as it is more digestible, so it works out not that much more expensive than other, lesser quality foods.

I've won a good few bags of RC at sled dog rallies, and have had some donated, and my dogs always do really well on it.

Nody

ISDW wrote: »

Royal Canin may seem expensive, but like other high quality foods, you feed less of it, as it is more digestible, so it works out not that much more expensive than other, lesser quality foods.

I've won a good few bags of RC at sled dog rallies, and have had some donated, and my dogs always do really well on it.

Except RC is not high quality food; it's medium quality food that's branded and sold as a high quality premium brand and is grossly overpriced for what goes in it.

Here's an extract of the review of large breed puppy RC:

The first ingredient in the food is a named meat product. It is the sole significant meat product in the food, and our confidence that this product contains a decent amount of meat is low. There is a further meat product 6th on the ingredient list, but this is not only a minor ingredient but is inclusive of water content (about 80%). Once that is removed, as it must be to create a dehydrated product, the ingredient will weigh around 20% of its wet weight. Ingredients are listed in order of weight, and the dehydrated ingredient would probably be more accurately placed much further down the ingredient list. It is highly unlikely that this ingredient makes any significant contribution to the overall meat content of the food.

The main grain in the food is rice, which is a decent quality grain. Corn, however, is a low quality ingredient. It is a difficult to digest grain that is commonly associated with allergy problems. Corn Gluten Meal is the dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm. In plain English, that bit of the corn leftover after most of the nutritious bits have been removed. The husks of psyllium seeds are more filler.

Beet pulp is controversial filler which appears to be used in large quantities in this food. It is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required. Soya oil is a further substance commonly linked to food allergies. We would prefer to see the use of whole eggs rather than egg product in the food.

DBB

BillyMitchel wrote: »

Royal Cainin giant puppy? €27 for 4kg

Edit: sorry just seen your budget.

Sorry BillyMitchell, this is not aimed at you, just using your info to address some costs concerns the op mentioned! Especially as op said they'd feed RC giant puppy!
€27 for 4kg of food is... Shocking! OP mentioned they'd like to raw feed, but is concerned about the cost: the very mist I spend on 4kg of meat/barf is €16! Having said that, you do have to feed more raw per weight, but even if you had to feed double the weight of raw food to the RC (which is unlikely), you're still almost breaking even!
I'm no fan of RC, I think there are wayyyy better dry food available for less/similar money, but each to their own!

Shirley2013

Bull mastiffs at full weight male is 110lbs...... Maybe you're thinking of a mastill which is bigger??

Shirley2013

This is great.... Thank you so much!! Any views on orijen??

andreac

If cost is an issue then Orijen is going to be far too expensive for you. It costs around 60-70 for a 15kg bag if im not mistaken so will cost you a fortune to feed your puppy on that!!

Andromeda_111

Hi OP, congrats on your beautifl Bullmastiff, he's stunning . I had a bullmastiff (he was the best dog in the world ) who sadly died last year and I now have a Dogue De Bordeaux. I used to feed him half raw and half kibble (Royal Canin or Orijen). I personally have now switched my choice for full raw. I have a small chest freezer and buy in bulk every few weeks. If you are going to buy Royal Canin then going raw is not going to be much more expensive and as others have already said, RC is not as good as they would have you believe.

There's a lot of research and good articles on the internet about raw that might be of interest to you. A lot of people have very different views when it comes to this. Dogs First is a new enough company that supplies good variety of raw dog food and they always have very interesting articles about the pro's and con's of feeding your 'babies'.

Good luck!

Shirley2013

Thank you, Andrea your right! According to the instructions 13 kg of orijen would feed him for 3-4 days and cost €70....., could that be right????

How about purina beata??

Nody

Shirley2013 wrote: »

Thank you, Andrea your right! According to the instructions 13 kg of orijen would feed him for 3-4 days and cost €70....., could that be right????

He should get about 600g a day so it would last about 22 days (this is using Orijen Puppy Large as reference sheet).

ISDW

Andromeda_111 wrote: »

Hi OP, congrats on your beautifl Bullmastiff, he's stunning . I had a bullmastiff (he was the best dog in the world ) who sadly died last year and I now have a Dogue De Bordeaux. I used to feed him half raw and half kibble (Royal Canin or Orijen). I personally have now switched my choice for full raw. I have a small chest freezer and buy in bulk every few weeks. If you are going to buy Royal Canin then going raw is not going to be much more expensive and as others have already said, RC is not as good as they would have you believe.

There's a lot of research and good articles on the internet about raw that might be of interest to you. A lot of people have very different views when it comes to this. Dogs First is a new enough company that supplies good variety of raw dog food and they always have very interesting articles about the pro's and con's of feeding your 'babies'.

Good luck!

It is different strokes for different folks, I wouldn't feed the dogs first food at all, if I was going raw, i'd go raw. i don't see how chubbs of food can be that great for the dogs. And all the discussions that went on on here about raw food, dogs first always said that dogs didn't need veggies, so I don't get why he has added veggies to some of his food.

Andromeda_111

I'm not feeding him the chubbs. I am feeding him completely raw. I'm feeding him a mix of:
Salmon
Tripe (absolutely stinks to high heavens but he loves it)
Chicken wings/backs
Sardines
Organ mix

If I want to add veggies I'll boil up a large pot of bought veggies and add a little bit in with his food. It's working for my guy as he is looking great and eating every bite.

Shirley2013

Oh god I'm so confused!!! The protein content in all of the higher quality foods is too high for him and the lower quality is full of fillers!!! ;(

andreac

Go for a mid range one then like Clinivet, Arden Grange, etc.

ISDW

Andromeda_111 wrote: »

I'm not feeding him the chubbs. I am feeding him completely raw. I'm feeding him a mix of:
Salmon
Tripe (absolutely stinks to high heavens but he loves it)
Chicken wings/backs
Sardines
Organ mix

If I want to add veggies I'll boil up a large pot of bought veggies and add a little bit in with his food. It's working for my guy as he is looking great and eating every bite.

So you just get your own raw food?

just a general observation now, not aimed at anyone in particular, but the protein content is interesting, if you think about it logically, meat is pure protein, so why is it alright to feed raw to a growing pup, but not a high protein kibble? not saying you shouldn't feed raw, but wondered if someone could explain this to me.

Shirley2013

I know I was thinking the same thing!! How would I keep his protein levels down if I went raw. Avcana = 32% , orijen also over 30%, Clinvet = 30%...... What the heck??? It seems puppy food is loaded. Maybe I should feed him adult kibble and supplement with salmon oil???

BillyMitchel

DBB wrote: »

Sorry BillyMitchell, this is not aimed at you, just using your info to address some costs concerns the op mentioned! Especially as op said they'd feed RC giant puppy!
€27 for 4kg of food is... Shocking! OP mentioned they'd like to raw feed, but is concerned about the cost: the very mist I spend on 4kg of meat/barf is €16! Having said that, you do have to feed more raw per weight, but even if you had to feed double the weight of raw food to the RC (which is unlikely), you're still almost breaking even!
I'm no fan of RC, I think there are wayyyy better dry food available for less/similar money, but each to their own!

Yep 27.70 to be exact, at the moment it's costing close to €40 a week after I get some mince/chicken/bones. I know I could prob get it a bit cheaper online but I enjoy going to my pet shop and they cut me some good deals on stuff too. Also like to support the local businesses!

I've always feed him giant puppy RC as its what the breeder and vet made me out to believe was the best, especially for such a big dog that's growing so fast. If I remember correctly my vet actually said don't feed him anything else!

What else would you recommend? I don't want to go over the €40 per week. Don't want to do raw either. He doing great on RC too, perfect weight and in great shape but if I can get better for him I will.

Sorry for butting in OP!

Rommie

That's something that's always confused me as well ISDW. Surely it's not the levels of protein, but the source of protein that's the problem. Dogs are carnivores so surely the higher the protein, the better?

andreac

Shirley, dont go for the puppy food then, come down to Junior or adult which will be lower protein %. The junior Clinivet is 26% i think?

The problem with the cheaper foods is the fillers really, the grains etc. They can cause huge problems in dogs, with skin conditions, hot spots etc which i have first hand experience with, with my rotties.

DBB

ISDW wrote: »

So you just get your own raw food?

just a general observation now, not aimed at anyone in particular, but the protein content is interesting, if you think about it logically, meat is pure protein, so why is it alright to feed raw to a growing pup, but not a high protein kibble? not saying you shouldn't feed raw, but wondered if someone could explain this to me.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-protein.php
But meat is not made up completely of protein! A quick Google gave me this link which indicates how much protein there is in meat... You might be surprised at how little there actually is! Meat contains other stuff, like fats, minerals, vitamins etc.

On the inclusion of veg in the raw diet, DogsFirst did indeed say that veg is not necessary, but he also said that as an optional extra, it can add an extra oomph to the raw diet, as the nutrients in veg mimic the nutrients many raw fed dogs don't get from organs like the pancreas and spleen, because many raw fed dogs would only get to eat these organs if fed entire carcasses. So, to clarify, veg are not thought to be vital, but they may add an additional source of nutrients which raw fed dogs may otherwise miss out on, to some extent at least.
I hope this clarifies both points!

Tropheus

There's a new food in the UK that is equivalent to Orijen that's now sold in Ireland. They had a stand at the recent Dog Expo in Swords on Patrick's Day:

http://www.ireland.edenpetfoods.com/

They sell a 15kg bag for €59.99 and free postage if you spend over €75. That's not bad considering my last 12kg bag of Orijen from Zooplus cost me over €80.

I got a sample bag from them at the show and our dog loves it. I'll definitely give it a try for our 6 mth old Beagle.

tk123

Rommie wrote: »

That's something that's always confused me as well ISDW. Surely it's not the levels of protein, but the source of protein that's the problem. Dogs are carnivores so surely the higher the protein, the better?

I wouldn't worry about the the protein content tbh - certainly don't discount a brand because it has a few % more than another. Look at the actual ingredients in the foods you're comparing eg 50% protein in a food where it's coming from actual meat and another were most of the protein is coming from say rice or other junk fillers is not the same thing.
The key for avoiding pano or joint issues (of which I have first hand experience) is to keep the puppy lean and don't let them pile on weight or muscle that they can't support yet.


I feed raw so I'm biased lol but it's as cheap or expensive as you want it to be to a certain extent - the same with any food though I think? There's tons of good quality foods to suit all budgets - personally I'd go for a cereal free option. Take a look on zooplus, vetuk, medicanimal etc

DBB

BillyMitchel wrote: »

What else would you recommend? I don't want to go over the €40 per week. Don't want to do raw either. He doing great on RC too, perfect weight and in great shape but if I can get better for him I will.

Hmmm, given that you want to stay local, which is very laudable, it's hard to recommend any of the dry foods I like, there aren't many of them!
But, I know that Barking Heads seem to be spreading their wings, geographically speaking, and perhaps your local shop could get it in for you? It's cheaper than what you're paying, and imo a pretty good food. It can also be got on zooplus now (the .co.uk site). You can also get Taste of the Wild on zooplus too, another of my favourites.
Having said that, if the current food suits, I'd be waiting with bated breath to see that the new, cereal-free diets would suit. They generally suit more dogs, but there are always exceptions, so I'd be inclined to either write to the companies for some freebies first, or just buy a small bag first, to experiment.
To my mind, the problems with the high-cereal/filler foods may not show until the dog reaches middle- to old-age, so whilst the RCs and JWBs and Burns are lauded as being good foods, I can't help but think they're not good in the longer term. But of course, nobody makes the connection between an illness in a 10 yr old dog, and diet over the lifetime, unless it's really obvious, like obesity, or perhaps diabetes.

Edited to add: have just seen on another thread that Amazon subscribe and save gives great value on Barking Heads, 12kg for STG£36!