Question about work

teednab-el

I'm off sick from work for last 2 weeks, doctors has given me a sick note. My place of work are having a night out soon. Some work members are asking me am I available to go to it? I'm not going because I don't want people to be asking questions of me when they see I am able to socialise and not go to work. I feel alright but I am not due to return to work for another two weeks which I intend taking.

Am I doing the right thing missing this night out?

seamus

Uh, yeah, you're doing the right thing.

This is exactly the kind of thing which could kill your career dead. Boss sees you out socialising, not a bother on you, you produce a valid sick note. Boss can do nothing about it, but permanently marks you down as a waster who pulls sickies and you'll always be overlooked when the promotions and bonuses are being handed out.

Though the sickness is important. If you've broken limbs, are post-op or have severe cuts and bruises, then socialising is OK. If you're supposed to be suffering with pneumonia or stress then being seen out on the beer will not look good.

You could try and bluff and say that you feel fine to work even though you have a 4-week sick cert and you're willing to come in and work. Many company insurance policies won't let them bring you back in, so your boss may tell you not to worry about it and take the time off. In that case you're in the clear to go out socialising since you made the effort to actually go back into work.

They may call your bluff and accept your offer to go back in though.

teednab-el

Best to stay away from it I reckon.

bbam

Definitely stay away from the social event.

I would ask though. If your feeling ok why would you take another two weeks?

Will your ongoing absence not affect annual review or whatever mechanism there is?

tatli_lokma

seamus wrote: »

you produce a valid sick note. Boss can do nothing about it....

you're dead wrong there - there is a lot a boss can do if they think you are pulling a sickie. As has been said to death here, a cert explains absence, it does not excuse it.

Having 4 weeks of absence in a year is a lot, and sick note or not, if your absence is considered excessive you can be disciplined for it and get a warning on your record or even ultimately you can be dismissed.

If you are not capable of doing the job you are contracted to do, then you can be let go. Too bad so sad if it is sicknes that means you are not capable. It is a shame, but it is not your employer's concern. They pay you to turn up for work and do the job you are paid to do - if you cannot do that for whatever reason they are within their rights to terminate your contract.

OP - don't be a mug. If you value your job don't attend the social event. It would be career suicide.
Unless the illness is something psychological where a social even might help, or if your manager him/herself has said 'hey come along, it'll do you good' then don't go. And even then, if your manager invites you, get it in writing.

did your mammy never teach you - if you're too sick to go to school then you're too sick to play out!!

gallifreya

Hey OP. Under no circumstances would I advise attending this work outing - if you are too sick to work you should be too sick to socialise. Regardless of facts and circumstances, the perception will be damaging and very well remembered by most people too.

seamus

Little Ted wrote: »

you're dead wrong there - there is a lot a boss can do if they think you are pulling a sickie. As has been said to death here, a cert explains absence, it does not excuse it.

Of course, wrong phrasing on my part, I should have said, "Won't do anything". Most companies are very slow to do anything when an employee has a valid sick cert as it gets into messy territory.
Usually if they're found to be pricking about with certs they're just stonewalled as I describe or quietly managed out of the company. More painful than just firing them, but cleaner from a legal perspective.

tatli_lokma

seamus wrote: »

Usually if they're found to be pricking about with certs they're just stonewalled as I describe or quietly managed out of the company. More painful than just firing them, but cleaner from a legal perspective.

I'm not sure I understand your distinction of 'managing' someone out v's firing them? Even for gross misconduct where you can be suspended on the spot you still have to manage the employee out. In all instances where you could potentially be let go the formal grievance and disciplinary procedure must be followed - there is no getting out of that. The process of working through the steps of disciplinaries always requires quite a lot of managing of the situation. So I don't see the difference between firing someone and managing out?

If you mean the manager acting the twat and making the work environment so hostile that the employee in question gets so sick of it and as such is encouraged to leave...well then there is no element of managment involved at all!

Sorry - I don't mean to be provocative or pedantic, I'm just trying to understand your distinction.

seamus

"Managing" an employee out typically refers to making the employee's work time unenjoyable enough that they see fit to move on their own. This would be things like rigidly applying timekeeping rules, not giving them any of the "good" shifts, promoting a newer employee above them, etc etc.
It's one step above constructive dismissal, but it may include instigating disciplinary procedures in order to let them know that they're not really appreciated as an employee anymore.

By the book, it should be straightforward enough to bring someone through the disciplinary procedure and fire them, but employment law is massively weighted in favour of the employee in Ireland, especially around the area of dismissal. So companies, especially bigger companies with HR departments, are very reluctant to dismiss employees for anything less than out-and-out gross misconduct.

Being seen on a night out while on sick leave wouldn't necessarily fall into this bracket as there are many instances where a person may be unfit to work but perfectly fit to enjoy a few pints in the pub. Having a sick cert from a doctor strengthens this defence because you can honestly say you've been examined by a professional who has provided you with professional advice. Your boss does not have the medical qualifications to say, "If you're well enough to socialise, you're well enough to work", and in court they would be torn asunder on it.

tatli_lokma

ok I get you now - but I still think the term 'managing' someone out is a misnomer as there is no way to not manage someone???

Your boss does not have the medical qualifications to say, "If you're well enough to socialise, you're well enough to work", and in court they would be torn asunder on it.

you are right, a manager has no right to disagree with a medical opinion. But that is not to say that they can't send you to see a company doctor.

As you say, you might be too sick to work, but a few pints won't do you any harm. But in addition to the possible ramifications of management, you would also be setting yourself up for possible comments/backbiting from colleagues. Its all well and good them inviting you, but there's nowt as queer as folk and I guarantee that at least one person will make a comment about that skiver teednab-el who is supposed to be so sick he can't work and yet there he was last night in great form!

It's really just not worth the hassle all the way round.