Bye bye Mac, welcome OS X?

mathepac

Given that "Mac" never appears in connection with "OS X" any more, is it time to rename the "Mac" section of the Operating Systems forum to well "OS X"? It'd be nice to be aligned with Apple's nomenclature and be accurate and like more 21st Century dudes.

Opinions?

miralize

I agree. It would help with the confusion with iDevices threads too

Passenger

There are a lot of threads relating to Mac hardware in the forum too though. They're not all OS related so one might argue that renaming the forum would possibly render it redundant to a lot of posters.

miralize

Thats an Apple device though. I suppose there could be a full restructure to help categorise things better. Apple -> iDevices, Mac Hardware, Software?

Passenger

miralize wrote: »

Thats an Apple device though. I suppose there could be a full restructure to help categorise things better. Apple -> iDevices, Mac Hardware, Software?

That might streamline things a little alright.

mathepac

Passenger wrote: »

There are a lot of threads relating to Mac hardware in the forum too though. They're not all OS related so one might argue that renaming the forum would possibly render it redundant to a lot of posters.

But this thread is Operating Systems that currently splits into Linux, Mac and Windows. Hardware has no part here and calling the thread Mac is attracting hardware posts that don't belong IMHO.

Sad Professor

Mac's placement in the Operating System sub-category is irrelevant. The forum has always focused on Mac as a computer (hardware and software), not just the operating system. Most Mac users don't really distinguish between the hardware and software. Like their iDevices, Apple designed the Mac as a complete and integrated computing solution, like a consumer device. And since officially you can only use Mac OS X on a Mac it makes no sense to only discuss the Mac operating system here.

The forum's placement in the Operating System sub-category was a mistake made when the forum was created. It was left here largely out of indifference and I guess as a way to justify the Operating System sub-category. Myself and the other mods have made several efforts over the years to get it moved out with no success.

It is an annoyance for me since I see a lot of Mac related threads getting started in C&T, Laptops and AMD. Laptops and C&T are pretty anti-Apple for the most part and anyone bringing up the Mac isn't going to get a proper answer to their query. Apple Media Devices (which was recently renamed Apple Devices) is a more popular forum and a lot of Mac users start threads there not realising that there is a Mac forum. I suspect this has only gotten worse since the renaming.

In the past I used to go around reporting all lost Mac threads that I thought would get a better response here and requesting that they be moved. Some of the mods are very good about moving them, but others considerably less so, so I gave up after a while.

The whole categorisation of forums is a mess right across Boards anyway. I believe the guys in the office have been trying to find an alternative to it for a while now.

In any case, there are advantages to the forum being buried in the back of the category. The anti-Apple trolls don't really know about it and tend to leave it alone.

nialler

Hi Mat

Most of the mac people here offering advice are well versed in both hardware/software support on os x and macs and we also know our way around ios devices, I'd find it a bit irritating having to go in and check a hardware forum, an os x forum and then a ios forum.

Personal opinion n all that.

Cabaal

Sad Professor wrote: »

It is an annoyance for me since I see a lot of Mac related threads getting started in C&T, Laptops and AMD. Laptops and C&T are pretty anti-Apple for the most part and anyone bringing up the Mac isn't going to get a proper answer to their query. Apple Media Devices (which was recently renamed Apple Devices) is a more popular forum and a lot of Mac users start threads there not realising that there is a Mac forum. I suspect this has only gotten worse since the renaming.

Always thought this should have been renamed the Apple forum and have a sub-forum of mobile devices or something...maybe call it iOS or something.

Would ensure bigger numbers to this forum and people can still post in the sub-forum so they don't crowd this forum with iphone stuff.

Naming a forum Apple Devices and then having a Mac forum is just plain silly, sure a iMac is a "apple device" so if you post a imac query in apple devices is it off-topic or on-topic? Confusing for users.

The anti-Apple trolls don't really know about it and tend to leave it alone.

Yeah but that affects your ban count,

Really you could improve your numbers...you're not reaching your monthly quota and you know that means, you won't get your monthly bonus....shh I said too much :pac:

Sad Professor

Cabaal wrote: »

Always thought this should have been renamed the Apple forum and have a sub-forum of mobile devices or something...maybe call it iOS or something.

Would ensure bigger numbers to this forum and people can still post in the sub-forum so they don't crowd this forum with iphone stuff.

Personally I'd be opposed to this, but yeah I think that was what Babypink and 440Hz were in favour of at the time. Which made sense since before the creation of AMD the Mac forum was basically acting as a general Apple forum in which all Apple products, including iPods and iPhones, etc, were discussed. The Apple Media Devices forum took a lot of traffic away.

The way thing are now I feel the Mac forum works fine as it is. It's good to have a dedicated Mac forum since not everyone is sold on iOS devices or other Apple products in general. I just think it would benefit from being moved out of OS, maybe with a link added to Apple Devices so that iOS users know about it.

Naming a forum Apple Devices and then having a Mac forum is just plain silly, sure a iMac is a "apple device" so if you post a imac query in apple devices is it off-topic or on-topic? Confusing for users.

Agreed. The idea behind the name change was to bring it in line with the Android Devices forum, but I think Apple Mobile Devices or Apple iOS Devices would be a better name. The tagline for Apple Devices also suggests that it's for all Apple devices which only adds to the confusion.

Yeah but that affects your ban count,

Really you could improve your numbers...you're not reaching your monthly quota and you know that means, you won't get your monthly bonus....shh I said too much :pac:

Did you not get my PM about arranging a flame war between the Mac and Windows forum for exactly this purpose? :pac:

mathepac

Sad Professor wrote: »

.... The idea behind the name change was to bring it in line with the Android Devices forum, but I think Apple Mobile Devices or Apple iOS Devices would be a better name. The tagline for Apple Devices also suggests that it's for all Apple devices which only adds to the confusion. ...

That may not be the best idea. As iOS and OSX converge, there are grounds for even more confusion if we follow through with that suggestion.

What about this:

Apple Forum:

• Joining info:
  • Charter
  • FAQ
• Tips & Tricks
• Software
  • Operating Systems
    • OS X
    • iOS
    • etc
  • Applications / Utilities
    • Apple Apps
      • iTunes
      • iPhoto
      • Pages
      • Numbers
      • etc
    • 3rd-party Apps (by Manufacturer / Publisher)
      • Adobe
        • Photoshop
        • Lightroom
        • Photoshop Elements
        • Revel

• Hardware
  • Desktop
    • iMac
    • Mac mini
    • MacPro
  • Laptop
    • MacBook
    • MacBook Pro
  • Mobile
    • iPad
    • iPhone
    • iPod
  • Other
    • Apple TV
    • Airport Base Station
    • Medical Devices
  • Firmware

Anyway you get the general idea. As the installed base expands, and I believe it still has some way to go yet, there will be more demand for a better organised focal point.

Anyhoo kick it around some more, thanks for joining in and leave lots of feedback / alternatives.

miralize

mathepac wrote: »

That may not be the best idea. As iOS and OSX converge, there are grounds for even more confusion if we follow through with that suggestion.

What about this:

Apple Forum:

• Joining info:
  • Charter
  • FAQ
• Tips & Tricks
• Software
  • Operating Systems
    • OS X
    • iOS
    • etc
  • Applications / Utilities
    • Apple Apps
      • iTunes
      • iPhoto
      • Pages
      • Numbers
      • etc
    • 3rd-party Apps (by Manufacturer / Publisher)
      • Adobe
        • Photoshop
        • Lightroom
        • Photoshop Elements
        • Revel

• Hardware
  • Desktop
    • iMac
    • Mac mini
    • MacPro
  • Laptop
    • MacBook
    • MacBook Pro
  • Mobile
    • iPad
    • iPhone
    • iPod
  • Other
    • Apple TV
    • Airport Base Station
    • Medical Devices
  • Firmware

Anyway you get the general idea. As the installed base expands, and I believe it still has some way to go yet, there will be more demand for a better organised focal point.

Anyhoo kick it around some more, thanks for joining in and leave lots of feedback / alternatives.

Wow.. that it much too detailed for a general forum like this... We are not on MacRumours :P

mathepac

miralize wrote: »

... We are not on MacRumours :P

Well I was hoping we could be the new "OS X Daily"

ZENER

Interesting thread and on the face of it a great idea. One issue I can see from the off is the number of iOS device owners who use Windows as their desktop OS.

Then again . . . Windwoes and Mac OS users posting in one forum might just help the Prof get that bonus he's after !? Christmas is coming !!

Ken

Doodah7

Have followed this thread with interest. If our overlords are struggling with an appropriate layout to deal with Apple Devices, perhaps they could take a leaf out of the AVForums structure here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/apple-products-services/

This layout seems to cover all the bases without being overly complicated.

miralize

tallpaul wrote: »

Have followed this thread with interest. If our overlords are struggling with an appropriate layout to deal with Apple Devices, perhaps they could take a leaf out of the AVForums structure here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/apple-products-services/

This layout seems to cover all the bases without being overly complicated.

Again I still think its too specialised for this forum. Apple focus on 3 things, IDevices, their Mac line & Software. I think that covers most things fairly well

Sad Professor

Is there anyone else reading this who believed that this forum was just for discussing Mac OS, not Mac hardware?

miralize

Sad Professor wrote: »

Is there anyone else reading this who believed that this forum was just for discussing Mac OS, not Mac hardware?

No, but I'd like to know how many threads that should be in here are in the PC forum, or the Apple devices forum.

mathepac

Sad Professor wrote: »

Is there anyone else reading this who believed that this forum was just for discussing Mac OS, not Mac hardware?

Well apart from me Boss, there's the Brother of course, ya can't forget the Brother

shanec1928

guess the other one is for phones only.

mathepac

miralize wrote: »

... Apple focus on 3 things, IDevices, their Mac line & Software. I think that covers most things fairly well

I don't agree obviously and see those classifications as just being pretty random. For example Apple doesn't sell "iDevices" and arguably their best selling desktop computer is an "iDevice" - the iMac.

There is also a slew of hardware left out in the cold (Airport Base-stations, Apple TV, etc) that just don't fit anywhere in a restrictive 3-category classification system. Apple's product range is broad and deep enough to warrant something more sophisticated IMO.

banquo

If you *had* to change it to make it less confusing, you'd just change Apple Devices into Apple Mobile Devices, and leave this forum as Mac.

Sad Professor

I think the best forums on Boards are generally the ones that have developed their own mini-communities. In the case of Apple, the reason the Mac and Apple Media Device forums work so well is because people with knowledge and expertise gather in those forums. The danger in breaking things down into different sub-categories and sub-forums is that you destroy those little communities.

In Films, it's sometimes a source of frustration that we can't get more serious film discussion going. But that's just the nature of the site. Boards is defined by its Irish perspective and not all Irish people are serious about films. The fact is anyone with a major interest in a particular area is going to post on a dedicated forum rather than Boards. That goes for television, films, Apple, gaming, whatever. Boards can't compete with that, nor should it try. Instead it needs to focus on developing mini-communities within the broader Irish perspective of the site.

If developing a sense of community is the goal, then excessive fragmentation is the last thing you want.

jakdublin

There's just not enough traffic here to justify multiple threads.