Car Oil Empty - Refilled. All okay?

Sully

Quick one. I drive a 03 VW Golf. Last checked the oil at the weekend before I did a fair bit of millage over the few days. I intended to check it again (it goes quick enough) this weekend. However, on driving into my house the car stuttered and then the oil light came on flashing. I immediately (literally!) turned the engine of and let it role into the the end of the driveway without the engine on.

Checked the dipstick, and the oil appeared empty (hard to tell at night, but it was either that or very low) which was a bit of a surprise how quick it went as usually as this stage it would be half empty as I need to check it frequently. So I added some oil and then rechecked the dipstick. The stick is now showing what looks (at night with a torch) to a brown liquid substance to the max level. Drove the car up the remaining way and it sounded okay but felt the gear stick was vibrating a bit (it probably does that anyway but I am noticing it more).

I didn't put in that much oil - I usually let it flow a little and then check the dipstick to see how much more is needed. On checking it, I could immediately see a difference and there appeared to be oil now on the dipstick just below the max so I added a small bit more and its now at the max. I'd have assumed if it was empty I would have put in a lot more?

Any thoughts?

Unless you quanifu how much you put in it's hard to know, if you put the oil in from a 1l bottle and there's some left in the container and the level on dipstick is genuinely at max than it might not be too bad.

If you've lashed in 3 litres than the car is quite likely after suffering

johnayo

About how much oil did you have to put in. Was it the yellow oil level light or the red oil pressure light came on.

Mech1

Check your oil on a level road not on a gradient. I have no idea what your driveway is like btw.

Norwesterner

Pointless checking the dip-stick if the motor is warm after a long trip.
Check when the engine is cool.
Sometimes the oil light and others comes on automatically when the engine stalls.

biko

Check again tomorrow once the engine is cold.
Car should be on even ground.
Add more oil if need be.

You're probably ok, the gear stick vibration is not something I'd connect to low oil. They just vibrate slightly on some cars.

corktina

the oil light isn't only for low oil, it could mean low oil pressure caused maybe by a failing oil pump. Needs more investigation.

TGi666

whats engine is in the golf?

Sully

The yellow oil light was flashing but it flashed only briefly because I cut the engine dead - the light came on a couple of seconds after the vibrating started, when I felt it first I wasn't sure but when it continued and the light came on I just cut the engine.

I added the oil on a hill and when the engine was warm, so I need to take that into consideration. Hard to tell how much oil I put in, I have 5L container that I use to top up the oil every week and I just used more of that which was about half empty and still has a fair bit left.

Ill recheck in the morning in the light.

Sully

TGi666 wrote: »

whats engine is in the golf?

1.4. Petrol. No GTI or TDI or anything like that.

Sully

Sully wrote: »

1.4. Petrol........

Many of them love guzzling oil, wouldn't make a habit of letting it need more than 0.5 of a litre.

johnayo

Sully wrote: »

The yellow oil light was flashing but it flashed only briefly because I cut the engine dead - the light came on a couple of seconds after the vibrating started, when I felt it first I wasn't sure but when it continued and the light came on I just cut the engine.

I added the oil on a hill and when the engine was warm, so I need to take that into consideration. Hard to tell how much oil I put in, I have 5L container that I use to top up the oil every week and I just used more of that which was about half empty and still has a fair bit left.

Ill recheck in the morning in the light.

Well, this is better news. The yellow light is oil level and not oil pressure. Never good to leave the engine go too low in oil, but would be much worse if it was low pressure. There is a good chance you will be ok.

kona

RoverJames wrote: »

Many of them love guzzling oil, wouldn't make a habit of letting it need more than 0.5 of a litre.

I'm convinced they are 2 stroke

Supergurrier

1.4's love guzzling oil my Octavia did that 2-3 times i wouldn't worry about it

TGi666

i think the book says 1l per 1000 miles is acceptable

TheUsual

What Biko said.

You are better off to drive with less than the correct level of oil than with too much. Pressure from too much oil will wreck the major oil seals and cause "piston slap" inside the engine. The oil is stopping the engine from running normally, by sloshing around the moving parts too much.
Unless the temp is very high, it's more of a long term damage thing, like over 5 years.

kona

TheUsual wrote: »

cause "piston slap" inside the engine. .

Do explain?

TheUsual

kona wrote: »

Do explain?

Basically the pistons pump up and down at the top of the engine, when you have too much oil it will be forced around the engine and take the place of air, there's more oil then normal so there is less air then ideal.

The oil sump is so full of oil so you have the excess oil splashing around the engine now where the moving parts are. Interfering with normal operation, there's an effect call hydraulic slap where the pistons are hitting and being slowed by oil instead of air in normal operation, sorry am not able to post any links - I read this stuff in Hayne's Books & Engine tuning books.

kona

TheUsual wrote: »

Basically the pistons pump up and down at the top of the engine, when you have too much oil it will be forced around the engine and take the place of air, there's more oil then normal so there is less air then ideal.

The oil sump is so full of oil so you have the excess oil splashing around the engine now where the moving parts are. Interfering with normal operation, there's an effect call hydraulic slap where the pistons are hitting and being slowed by oil instead of air in normal operation, sorry am not able to post any links - I read this stuff in Hayne's Books & Engine tuning books.

I thought piston slap is when the gap between the piston and bore is too large. Also occurs on high performance turbos to allow for expansion.

Pistons won't hit the oil in the sump, the crank will.

It's not good to drive with too much or too little!! Cheaper to replace a seal than big ends/ cams/ rings

TheUsual

kona wrote: »

I thought piston slap is when the gap between the piston and bore is too large. Also occurs on high performance turbos to allow for expansion.

Pistons won't hit the oil in the sump, the crank will.

That mechical piston slap is correct. But that's more permanent mechanical design or wear rather than excess fluid causing pistons to hit fluid.

The excess oil is being kept at the top of the engine instead of air in a normal engine. At driving speeds the RPM is high enough so that the oil is not just at the bottom it's everywhere.
There's nowhere for the oil to go, and there is less air in the engine than normal operation. So the oil is splashing around inside the engine, crank and pistons too.

corktina

....liquids not being compressable being the problem i guess....

TheUsual

corktina wrote: »

....liquids not being compressable being the problem i guess....

Buy that man a beer !

kona

TheUsual wrote: »

That mechical piston slap is correct. But that's more permanent mechanical design or wear rather than exceess fluid causing pistons to hit fluid.

The excess oil is being kept at the top of the engine instead of air in a normal engine. At dring RPM the oil is not just at the bottom it's everywhere.
There's nowhere for the oil to go, and there is less air in the engine than normal operation. So the oil is splashing around inside the engine, crank and pistons too.

The oil goes from sump to pump thru filter (depending on design) and into the galleries and around the engine, of course it's going to be everywhere ! Oil pressure rises with engine rpm, you'd want to have an awful lot of oil in the car to make pistons hit it. Most people overfill by a few ml, your talking litres!

Oil splashes around anyways, it's one of the means of lubrication.

kona

corktina wrote: »

....liquids not being compressable being the problem i guess....

As in crazy amounts of oil past rings into the cylinders?

corktina

corktina wrote: »

....liquids not being compressable being the problem i guess....

You'd literally have to fill the engine with oil so that it's almost up to the filler cap to experience issues.

Lenny

TGi666 wrote: »

i think the book says 1l per 1000 miles is acceptable

it does yea,
I had 5-w30 in my gti, bept topping up a litre everything 800-900 miles,
thought it was odd but it says that in the book.
done an oil change and put 10w40 in it, never really burned oil then

TheUsual

kona wrote: »

The oil goes from sump to pump thru filter (depending on design) and into the galleries and around the engine, of course it's going to be everywhere ! Oil pressure rises with engine rpm, you'd want to have an awful lot of oil in the car to make pistons hit it. Most people overfill by a few ml, your talking litres!

Oil splashes around anyways, it's one of the means of lubrication.

You are 100% right.

We are talking like litres too many.
My brother filled his Nissan Almera with approx. 2 litres too much for about 1 year.
He was always filling it outside the house on a slope so that he didn't realise at the time until we drove it around the corner and measured it.

Never caused a problem, but that car was idiot proof. Did high miles on it and sold it on.

kona

TheUsual wrote: »

You are 100% right.

We are talking like litres too many.
My brother filled his Nissan Almera with approx. 2 litres too much for about 1 years.
He was always filling it outside the house on a slope so that he didn't realise at the time until we drove it around the corner and measured it.

Never caused a problem, but that car was idiot proof. Did high miles on it and sold it on.

Surely that's an extreme!? Like litres?!

TheUsual

kona wrote: »

Surely that's an extreme!? Like litres?!

I'm not a mechanic, they would know which engines are more prone to oil problems than me.

I 'think' that smaller engines need more care about oil levels as their sumps are smaller and it's less tolerant to neglect (oil starvation).

Also 'maybe' some engines are badly designed and have a higher failure rate.

Honestly I don't know. Mechanics would be able to tell me if I am wrong.

kona

TheUsual wrote: »

Also 'maybe' some engines are badly designed and have a higher failure rate.

1.4 vag engines lol

unkel

Sully wrote: »

1.4. Petrol.

We all knew you were gonna say that

Don't worry about it. Most of them engines started drinking nearly as much oil as petrol when they were 3 years old, never mind 10 years old. You must have got one of the good ones

delly

Just to clarify for the op, the min level on the dipstick is just that. You'll still have a few litres of oil left, so you would not have run out completely.

biko

So Sully, how did it go?

Sully

biko wrote: »

So Sully, how did it go?

I'm afraid to look

Nah I got one of those 24hr bugs yesterday so didn't leave the house, will check it today! Say a prayer!

Joe 90

Sort of on topic but true and funny.

Once upon a time there was a car called the BMC 1800. It started life as a Morris or maybe an Austen 1800 but over it's life was badged with most of the BMC badges.

For you youngsters, BMC, British Motor Corporation, was the sort of predecessor of BLMC, British Leyland Motor Corporation, which was as sort of Government sponsored shotgun marriage between BMC and Leyland. Leyland at the time make very good trucks.

Anyway, BMC produce the 1800 which was a sort of scaled up 1100 with a B series engine across the front. It was in fact a very good load carrier with a big, flat floor. It did sell, no idea what sort of numbers and no idea if BMC made any money from it. A good , boring car which was never going to set the world alight but which did what it was meant to do.

Anyway, BMC decided to export the to Autralia. They sold some but engines started to blow up. Not a huge number but enough to be noticed. Only in Australia. No major engine problems anywhere else they were sold.
BMC really did some serious research and head scratching and could find nothing wrong. Engines still blew up.
It turned out that owners in Australia who were setting out on a long run would top up the oil, presumably a bit over the upper mark on the dip stick. Then set off to drive a few hundred miles in hot conditions. The oil was slightly high, just high enough for the crankshaft to splash in it. The result was the the oil was churned to a froth and the engine eventually succumbed to lack of lubrication.
The cure was simply a re graduated dip stick.

Sully

Okay so the engine seems to be vibrating a bit more than normal. Oil at correct level. Oil light flashing and Engine Management Light static.

Mechanic unsure, will look on Wednesday!

dougie-lampkin

Sully wrote: »

Okay so the engine seems to be vibrating a bit more than normal. Oil at correct level. Oil light flashing and Engine Management Light static.

Mechanic unsure, will look on Wednesday!

Not to worry you or anything, but just before my Punto threw a big end bearing and half a conrod through the sump because it was ran low on oil it was a bit more vibratey than usual. But I'm sure you'll be fine :pac:

TGi666

A diagnostic test should explain more

Sully

TGi666 wrote: »

A diagnostic test should explain more

The more I think about it the more I feel the EML light came on and the oil light never did, but I still believe the oil had a part to play in this. Just dawned on me the more I thought about it. Kinda reminds me the time the plugs went when I first got the car.

I'm hoping a new engine isn't in order or a costly repair.

Shaunie306

Sounds like typical 1.4 golf issues, Sounds like its well on its way out, I wouldn't even bother with a second hand engine, They are all crap, One of the guys in work got a rebuild kit from hungary including oversized pistons and rebuild it, 40000k miles later and its still flying.

Sully

Its in great condition prior to this mishap, I look after her well.

Shaunie306

Its not your fault its VWs for making such a rubbish engine!

Sully

Good news.. the engine didn't receive any damage and the only problem with it was just an engine misfire and one of the coils had to be replaced. There was two options given to address the oil issue;

1) Rebuild the head.
2) Add something to the oil to slow the burning rate.

Any thoughts?

Nonoperational

Or just keep it topped up. Check it every night for a week. 1L every few weeks is probably better than rebuilding it.

Sully

Nonoperational wrote: »

Or just keep it topped up. Check it every night for a week. 1L every few weeks is probably better than rebuilding it.

I checked it mostly once a week anyway but it didn't last the full week this time.