"No Right Turns" pros and cons?

silverharp

Just curious to find out more about the justification for the increasing amount of restrictions in being able to turn a particular way in cities (in my case Dublin). Are there safety benefits/downside? is there an advantage for commuting traffic over local traffic? does in work better on/off peak? after certain levels of traffic does it matter when the gridlock will just be moved to the next traffic lights?

In my own case I tend to remember the downside of them if they make my journey longer or make me go on a magical mystery tour when I cant go the obvious way and don't know the alternative routes.
I tried google but nothing obvious jumped out at me

AlekSmart

silverharp wrote: »

Just curious to find out more about the justification for the increasing amount of restrictions in being able to turn a particular way in cities (in my case Dublin). Are there safety benefits/downside? is there an advantage for commuting traffic over local traffic? does in work better on/off peak? after certain levels of traffic does it matter when the gridlock will just be moved to the next traffic lights?

In my own case I tend to remember the downside of them if they make my journey longer or make me go on a magical mystery tour when I cant go the obvious way and don't know the alternative routes.
I tried google but nothing obvious jumped out at me

You're not talking about Mobhi Road/Home Farm Road by any chance silverharp...?

Cars/SUV's full of SchoolRun Mum's and chizzlers,rear windows emblazoned with "Baby on Board" etc stickers......

Ignore not one,but TWO,No Right Turn Signs,cut the nose off traffic waiting to exit Home Farm Road.....Turbo Boost to Corpus Christi Skoolze...pick up/deposit chizzlers,then on to Drumcondra Road Junction,where another No Left Turn Sign sits in mute ignorance...Whizz round to left,over the steel toe-caps of pedestrians crossing on the Green Man signal....

Two CCTV/ANPR cameras,at either end of the road would stop this selfish nonsense,or at least make it financially viable for the State to erect these oul signs....;)

You can add/subtract whichever location you like,but the principle remains the same.....as with the elastic Taxi Rank situation in the City Centre....an ANPR/Revenue Camera monitoring the bottom of Grafton Street has the capacity to put a big dent in the National Debt

Also,be very afraid,if you sit behind a fully laden Santa-Fe with " Little Angel on Board" stickers AND an upside down and backways L sign in the rear window....It could be a set-up...undercover Traffic Corps ....:D

foggy_lad

silverharp wrote: »

Just curious to find out more about the justification for the increasing amount of restrictions in being able to turn a particular way in cities (in my case Dublin). Are there safety benefits/downside? is there an advantage for commuting traffic over local traffic? does in work better on/off peak? after certain levels of traffic does it matter when the gridlock will just be moved to the next traffic lights?

In my own case I tend to remember the downside of them if they make my journey longer or make me go on a magical mystery tour when I cant go the obvious way and don't know the alternative routes.
I tried google but nothing obvious jumped out at me

Right turns slow down the flow of traffic in built up areas because of the need to cross the contra-flow traffic, this can be made worse by immature/inexperienced drivers who may not have the confidence to negotiate busy intersections and complete right turns safely.

corktina

in London they used (perhaps still do) make you turn LEFT at the next junction and go around the block counter-clockwise to access what otherwise would be a right turn...good system

coylemj

I would have thought it's obvious. No right turn means the outer lane doesn't get blocked with a motorist waiting to go right. With the inner lane often dedicated to a QBC, it means a right-turning motorist has the ability to completely block the junction for cars travelling in the same direction.

Some junctions ban right turns at rush hour, others are banned 24 x 7, usually with an exception for buses e.g. the junction of Merrion Road/Ailesbury Road for traffic coming from St. Vincent's.

the groutch

some places definitely need it, eg. imagine if there was a right turn allowing people to turn into the Frascati Centre in Blackrock coming from town, there'd be tailbacks a mile long.

mikemac1

There wasn't a no right turn by the crossroads of Le Fanu Rd and Ballyfermot road for a long time but it's there a few years now.

Very welcome, it keeps things moving, would be chaos without it!
http://goo.gl/maps/73uki


You can still turn right before it or after it, it just brings you on a bit of a maze of small streets but that's ok.

coylemj

They introduced a no right turn at Deansgrange Cross a few years ago for traffic coming down the hill from Baker's Corner, previously you were allowed to turn right into Deansgrange Road. Without it that junction would be a total disaster zone, even worse than it already is.

MadsL

They need a different colour for No Right Turns that are time restricted. The amount of times I have had ignorant feckers blasting the horn at me for makng a legal right turn out of hours.

monument

silverharp wrote: »

Just curious to find out more about the justification for the increasing amount of restrictions in being able to turn a particular way in cities (in my case Dublin). Are there safety benefits/downside? is there an advantage for commuting traffic over local traffic? does in work better on/off peak? after certain levels of traffic does it matter when the gridlock will just be moved to the next traffic lights?

In my own case I tend to remember the downside of them if they make my journey longer or make me go on a magical mystery tour when I cant go the obvious way and don't know the alternative routes.
I tried google but nothing obvious jumped out at me

There's three main reasons for right turning restrictions in Dublin:

1. A large one-way system like Dublin requires them.

2. Traffic generally will flow better with them.

3. Aiming to stop or reduce rat runs. (But byproduct of right turn bans is often rat runs on the other side of the street...)

corktina wrote: »

in London they used (perhaps still do) make you turn LEFT at the next junction and go around the block counter-clockwise to access what otherwise would be a right turn...good system

Such a system can be and is informally used in at least some places in Dublin.

MadsL wrote: »

They need a different colour for No Right Turns that are time restricted. The amount of times I have had ignorant feckers blasting the horn at me for makng a legal right turn out of hours.

Sign coloring is already based defining what is mandatory and what is a warning etc.

There's also a need to follow international agreements to bring road signs across different countries in line with each other.

murphaph

MadsL wrote: »

They need a different colour for No Right Turns that are time restricted. The amount of times I have had ignorant feckers blasting the horn at me for makng a legal right turn out of hours.

The colour of the sign is not the problem here, rather the poor driving skills of the idiots who can't read them. Having said that, I favour the German system here: only the blue backed, white arrow signs are used. You are shown what you can/must do, not what you are prohibited from doing when passing through a junction. I prefer this than the mix n' match approach in Ireland, UK, France etc. There really is no need to have both types of "control" signage for junctions.

AlekSmart

corktina wrote: »

in London they used (perhaps still do) make you turn LEFT at the next junction and go around the block counter-clockwise to access what otherwise would be a right turn...good system

It's often quite amazing just how different and sensible the Brits are in matters motoring.

Even the fact that ALL lamp standards and signage poles in London are coloured Black.(Next picture of a London Street Scene you see,check it out...rare indeed to see the rainbow effect we take for granted,being a more artistic race n'all dah).

The hugely sensible Red-Red/Amber-Green Traffic Signal Sequencing allied to a far more realistic Pedestrian cross-time also allows progress to be maintained to a better degree.

However,for me it's the more robust elelents of ensuring compliance that underline the differences in our attitudes.

Note,for example,the large stretches of UK City Kerbs which have pedestrian barriers along their length,not always to keep pedestrians IN,but equally useful at keeping "Just nipping in for a Paper,Bud" drivers OUT.

Allied to this,is the UK practice of erecting a central dividing barrier along many urban main-roads which forces (OOH,does'nt that word really bother our world-view ?) traffic to use a roundabout to perform the manouveres which plague Dublins streets.

There is nowt wrong with a Right-Turn if it's excuted cleanly and in a pre-planned manner,however for far too many folks,turning right in a Micra/Starlet involves a last minute move as far over to the left as possible,before launching a mad single handed wheel-twirl and going for whatever gap opens up.

The same tactic is used in reverse for the Left-Turn BTW,get over to the extreme Right and Bob's yer Uncle....

Much of this appears to have been learned from American Trucking Movies over the decades,or the likes of "Cannon" which convinced us all of the benefits of an elbow out the winda.....:)

Reality here,is that Regulatory Signage,of itself,is insufficient to ensure compliance,and must be supported by physical barriers to whatever manouvere is being prevented.;)

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's often quite amazing just how different and sensible the Brits are in matters motoring.

Even the fact that ALL lamp standards and signage poles in London are coloured Black.(Next picture of a London Street Scene you see,check it out...rare indeed to see the rainbow effect we take for granted,being a more artistic race n'all dah).

The hugely sensible Red-Red/Amber-Green Traffic Signal Sequencing allied to a far more realistic Pedestrian cross-time also allows progress to be maintained to a better degree.

However,for me it's the more robust elelents of ensuring compliance that underline the differences in our attitudes.

Note,for example,the large stretches of UK City Kerbs which have pedestrian barriers along their length,not always to keep pedestrians IN,but equally useful at keeping "Just nipping in for a Paper,Bud" drivers OUT.

Allied to this,is the UK practice of erecting a central dividing barrier along many urban main-roads which forces (OOH,does'nt that word really bother our world-view ?) traffic to use a roundabout to perform the manouveres which plague Dublins streets.

Isn't London one of the least likely places to see you move 2 yards within 5 years?

Having barriers all the way along streets on both sides and down the middle of the road isn't desirable. Seeing some of the streets in the UK covered in metal and paint is horrible.

monument

AlekSmart wrote: »

Note,for example,the large stretches of UK City Kerbs which have pedestrian barriers along their length,not always to keep pedestrians IN,but equally useful at keeping "Just nipping in for a Paper,Bud" drivers OUT.

The new Irish manual for urban roads, the UK manual for streers (starting a genral thread in it now in a min), UK DoT national advice, TfL advice etc all advise against pedestrian guard rails and/or the removal of current guard rails. TfL have a removal programeme -- and when they have done survays the change has been welcomed as an improvement by the majorty of pedestrians.

They have been shown to have no affect on making things safer in genral and in some cases it creates safity issues (in high volume pedestrian areas people are left on roads after the lights have changed when without the barrier they could access footpaths, and there's the issue of cyclists getting crushed against them). On the other hand they offer little to no protection from motor traffic mounting the kerb, besides when its going at a snail's pace.

Breezer

Any ideas on the turn restrictions on the Samuel Beckett Bridge in Dublin? Cross the bridge from the south and there's no right turn, which I guess in the context of the above I could understand. Coming down the North Quays from The Point towards the city though, no left turn - I can see no reason for this unless it's to protect the toll bridge revenue for those heading back southside. But for those who want to access the Grand Canal Dock area, they then have to head further towards the city and out again, adding to congestion.

face1990

There's one on Portland Row which says "No Right Turn Arrow" (in text, no arrow).
It means the only way to legally get on to Killarney Street during those hours is to come through Sheriff Street & Seville Place onto Portland, as Amiens Street also has no right turn onto Portland Row.

Ben D Bus

AlekSmart wrote: »

The hugely sensible Red-Red/Amber-Green Traffic Signal Sequencing allied to a far more realistic Pedestrian cross-time also allows progress to be maintained to a better degree.

That even works 50-odd miles up the road in NI!

When the right turn from Old Kilmainham onto the SCR was removed, it virtually eliminated the rush hour jam that used to stretch all the way back to James's Hospital. Quite a few cars will U-turn at Bulfin Rd but it doesn't cause a significant problem.

Terrontress

dfx- wrote: »

Isn't London one of the least likely places to see you move 2 yards within 5 years?

I thought that honour went to Dublin, if you don't count Calcutta.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/3+MPH+..the+average+speed+on+Dublin+roads+was+faster+100+years+ago.-a090813675

The difference between Dublin and London is that it is quite possible to get round London without using the road.

Chris_5339762

Breezer wrote: »

Any ideas on the turn restrictions on the Samuel Beckett Bridge in Dublin? Cross the bridge from the south and there's no right turn, which I guess in the context of the above I could understand. Coming down the North Quays from The Point towards the city though, no left turn - I can see no reason for this unless it's to protect the toll bridge revenue for those heading back southside. But for those who want to access the Grand Canal Dock area, they then have to head further towards the city and out again, adding to congestion.

Samuel Becketts restrictions are purely so traffic can't ratrun across it instead of paying the toll on the Eastlink.

AlekSmart

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Samuel Becketts restrictions are purely so traffic can't ratrun across it instead of paying the toll on the Eastlink.

You old Cynic you Chris.....!!!

The REAL reasons were "Environmental" and all down to the City Council's inherent goodness and desire to prevent residents of the adjoining Inner City Streets from being unduly effected by increased Traffic Levels...:(

All ecologically sound no doubt,but it does rather raise a question as to why they built the damn bridge there in the first place.....was it a map-reading error ?

Victor

AlekSmart wrote: »

Note,for example,the large stretches of UK City Kerbs which have pedestrian barriers along their length,not always to keep pedestrians IN,but equally useful at keeping "Just nipping in for a Paper,Bud" drivers OUT.

An issue with such barriers is that they result in problems for pedestrians and cyclists who do find themselves between a truck and said barrier.

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

An issue with such barriers is that they result in problems for pedestrians and cyclists who do find themselves between a truck and said barrier.

I've no doubt but it does for some pedestrians and cyclists,but in general,my experiences are of traffic able to move far more freely through urban centres largely free of Parked "Nippers-In".

Victor

AlekSmart wrote: »

I've no doubt but it does for some pedestrians and cyclists,but in general,my experiences are of traffic able to move far more freely through urban centres largely free of Parked "Nippers-In".

The Garda needs to put an ANPR camera on the front of some buses. :cool:

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

The Garda needs to put an ANPR camera on the front of some buses. :cool:

Something else those damn Brits did a long time ago too....;)

Ben D Bus

Victor wrote: »

The Garda needs to put an ANPR camera on the front of some buses. :cool:

Or a cowcatcher!

RATM

Breezer wrote: »

Any ideas on the turn restrictions on the Samuel Beckett Bridge in Dublin? Cross the bridge from the south and there's no right turn, which I guess in the context of the above I could understand. Coming down the North Quays from The Point towards the city though, no left turn - I can see no reason for this unless it's to protect the toll bridge revenue for those heading back southside. But for those who want to access the Grand Canal Dock area, they then have to head further towards the city and out again, adding to congestion.

The ban to turn left onto the Sam Beckett bridge truly astounds me, especially if you are going to Grand Canal Dock or Stephens Green.

I can only guess it was put in there to protect the revenue of the East Link, perhaps someone could shine some light on this ?

edit AlekSmart already has.

'Environmental' eh ? Handy that.

LXFlyer

The left turn ban from the North Quays was part of the planning permission for the bridge, and was to placate the residents of he Macken Street area, who had raised considerable objections to potentially large volumes of traffic avoiding the Eastlink, and flooding the Macken Street area.

Nothing to do with protecting toll revenues.

AlekSmart

lxflyer wrote: »

The left turn ban from the North Quays was part of the planning permission for the bridge, and was to placate the residents of he Macken Street area, who had raised considerable objections to potentially large volumes of traffic avoiding the Eastlink, and flooding the Macken Street area.

Nothing to do with protecting toll revenues.

Except of course that,nudge nudge,wink,wink, it does have the desired effect...phew...Macken St was always such a haven of peace and quiet in the midst of the bustling Docks....you'd hear a pin drop most days....:rolleyes:

LXFlyer

Indeed it does, but the traffic there is bad enough without bringing even more traffic away from the Eastlink.

Victor

OK, enough about the Eastlink, which is unaffected by a right-turn ban.

Moderator

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

OK, enough about the Eastlink, which is unaffected by a right-turn ban.

Moderator

Only cos there is physically no road to the right when coming southbound and just a big fenced off port area when coming north :D:D