Can Arch Techs do a provisional Ber Deap Assessment??

Tim Toolman

I was just enquiring about the legality for architectural technicians to carry out a deap assessment/provisional ber cert for new builds etc. Do you have to have carried out the Ber course. Is it common practice for technicians at design stage to do a provisional ber assessment?? I up to now have only designed to Building Regs Part L when it comes to energy conservation for submission to planning. This was probably ok, but with the building control regulations tightening up from march next year and the certifications of compliance of all drawings and specs. I think and I am not sure do they require working drawing examples?? So there will be a necessity for doing a provisional assessment in that case and can you legally put your name to deap assessment without doing the course???

topcatcbr

I can see no reason anyone should not be able to use the deap software. However to produce a BER cert(provisional or full) you have to be registered with SEAI. You can always produce a report to show compliance with design data.

sydthebeat

I would argue that Arch Techs are the most suitable professional to carry out DEAP assessments.

They are the main 'specification compliers' in most builds and they specialise in the technical aspects of architecture.

Carrying out DEAP assessments without being qualified through a training course, while allowed, is disadvantageous for ANY person regardless of their profession.

The legal aspect of the change in building control puts the onus on the 'design certifier' to now what they are certifying.
They can of course 'subcontract' the DEAP assessment out, and i think this will be very commonplace.

Tim Toolman

So from what I have gathered is that anyone can use the deap software, read the provided manual and the other technical documents. You don't need to be registered to SEAI to do this. It comes down to yourself to make sure you do it right. It may be beneficial to do the course however if you need the training but this does cost. Cost/risk.

sydthebeat

Tim Toolman wrote: »

So from what I have gathered is that anyone can use the deap software, read the provided manual and the other technical documents. You don't need to be registered to SEAI to do this. It comes down to yourself to make sure you do it right. It may be beneficial to do the course however if you need the training but this does cost. Cost/risk.

its a bit pointless paying someone to do the assessment when they cannot publish either a provisional or final certificate for you.

youd just be double paying.

receiving the certificate means you have the added assurance that the assessor is trained AND registered AND aware of the possibility of being audited.

non registered assessor do not have this very focusing risk hanging over them

rodzer

"I can see no reason anyone should not be able to use the deap software.

Are you serious?
Yeah, let's just let anyone at all use DEAP. Sure it's only ticking a few boxes. Why bother paying for the course at all?
Isnt that the attitude that screwed up the BER business in the first place?
SEAI told me years ago that if you use DEAP to prove Part L compliance, then it is mandatory that the assessment is published
on the NAS.
I've been using DEAP as an architectural technician and as a registered assessor for 4 years and I still get caught out with its many booby traps.
How could you have confidence that the file your toying with is accurate?
Anyway, who would employ you to do a provisional assessment if your not registered?

Poor Uncle Tom

rodzer wrote: »

Are you serious?
Yeah, let's just let anyone at all use DEAP. Sure it's only ticking a few boxes. Why bother paying for the course at all?
Isnt that the attitude that screwed up the BER business in the first place?
SEAI told me years ago that if you use DEAP to prove Part L compliance, then it is mandatory that the assessment is published
on the NAS.
I've been using DEAP as an architectural technician and as a registered assessor for 4 years and I still get caught out with its many booby traps.
How could you have confidence that the file your toying with is accurate?
Anyway, who would employ you to do a provisional assessment if your not registered?

topcatcbr wasn't having a pop at assessors, I read it to mean any designer can use the DEAP for their own designs and to aid their own designs, not that they would automatically be assessors because they use the softwear.

topcatcbr

rodzer wrote: »

Quote "I can see no reason anyone should not be able to use the deap software."
Are you serious?

Yes

rodzer wrote: »

Yeah, let's just let anyone at all use DEAP.

Who are you to decide who uses it. DEAP and BER are not the same thing BERs are calculated using DEAP.

Deap is provided to be used for more than just the production of BERs.

rodzer wrote: »

Sure it's only ticking a few boxes. Why bother paying for the course at all?
Isnt that the attitude that screwed up the BER business in the first place?

Not complying with their own guidelines on who qualifies and can register to produce BERs this has been discussed to death. I'm bored of it now.

rodzer wrote: »

SEAI told me years ago that if you use DEAP to prove Part L compliance, then it is mandatory that the assessment is published
on the NAS.

BCOs only asked me for calc data and not certs at design stage. A BER is required on completion in theory before occupancy.

rodzer wrote: »

I've been using DEAP as an architectural technician and as a registered assessor for 4 years and I still get caught out with its many booby traps.
How could you have confidence that the file your toying with is accurate?
Anyway, who would employ you to do a provisional assessment if your not registered?

I never said that. My quote in full below

topcatcbr wrote: »

I can see no reason anyone should not be able to use the deap software. However to produce a BER cert(provisional or full) you have to be registered with SEAI. You can always produce a report to show compliance with design data.

Good luck with your BER career
I was one of the first by the way and gave it up in Jan as I am bored with it and only did it initially to be able to offer it with a design service. I don't see enough work now at a cost I am willing to work for. When this changes I might return to it.

topcatcbr

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

topcatcbr wasn't having a pop at assessors, I read it to mean any designer can use the DEAP for their own designs and to aid their own designs, not that they would automatically be assessors because they use the softwear.

Exactly.

rodzer

Easy boys. I stand over what I said.

No6

Anyone can use DEAP but if they havnt been trained on it chances are they will have a number of errors that may throw the design out, I suspect doing provisional BER assessments may become prone to litigation where provisional assessments are incorrect and complaince cannot be achieved on with the final ber cert.

I too am one of the first trained and registered and have now de registered as I have emigrated and couldn't be bothered with the rubbish that came out of SEAI.

topcatcbr

Tim Toolman wrote: »

I was just enquiring about the legality for architectural technicians to carry out a deap assessment/provisional ber cert for new builds etc. Do you have to have carried out the Ber course.

..................................................../../......


So there will be a necessity for doing a provisional assessment in that case and can you legally put your name to deap assessment without doing the course???

This is the question I think was being asked.

While I would advise being trained (BER course) to use the software (DEAP) it is not legally necessary AFAIK.
As no6 has said. SEAI are not pleasant to deal with. And for pre planning info a DEAP calc is what is required.

In order to produce a BER you are required to be registered.

Poor Uncle Tom

OP has Closed Account.