New coach written off? *(note mod warning post 38)*

foggy_lad

I just heard there was some incident with one of the new SE bus eirwann coaches yesterday but dont know how acurate that information is. Does anyone have any information on SE9 being writtten off early yesterday morning?

Cookie_Monster

...purple monkey dishwasher...

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

...purple monkey dishwasher...

Are you saying that there was no incident yesterday where a new Bus Eireann coach was written off?

cbl593h

http://irishtransport.yuku.com/topic/5513/SE9#.UVWP-NdFDDc

AlekSmart

cbl593h wrote: »

http://irishtransport.yuku.com/topic/5513/SE9#.UVWP-NdFDDc

I do hope the Driver and passengers were all safely accounted for ?

I also hope the fact that it's an unfortunate Road Traffic Accident does'nt detract from whatever point was under construction below....;)

Foggy_Lad: Are you saying that there was no incident yesterday where a new Bus Eireann coach was written off?

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

...purple monkey dishwasher...

Behave

Moderator

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are you saying that there was no incident yesterday where a new Bus Eireann coach was written off?

no.
I just don't see the point in posting such rumours, nor the pointing out that a bus got written off in a crash.

Hilly Bill

Seems a valid reason to me. Whats good about Boards.ie is that you have the option to ignore any threads that you have no interest in.

AlekSmart

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no.
I just don't see the point in posting such rumours, nor the pointing out that a bus got written off in a crash.

Agreed Cookie_Monster,if there is/was a point to it then it should have been made clearer,but maybe there was'nt as it was kinda like those Garda appeal's for witnesses,or somebody ,"Who knows a woman,who knows a man,who's nephew,y'know,the deaf lad,who sez he heard a driver say etc etc...."

From the (lack of) coverage of the accident it looks like major injuries/fatalities were avoided thankfully.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no.
I just don't see the point in posting such rumours, nor the pointing out that a bus got written off in a crash.

As it happened it is not rumour but fact and it is always good to keep up with what is happening with vehicles purchased by state companies. While it is a shame to see an almost €400000 bus written off it is a good thing that nobody was seriously injured.

When can the public expect a report on this incident I wonder or is that being kept under wraps by CIE/BE?

monument

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no.
I just don't see the point in posting such rumours, nor the pointing out that a bus got written off in a crash.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Agreed Cookie_Monster,if there is/was a point to it then it should have been made clearer,but maybe there was'nt as it was kinda like those Garda appeal's for witnesses,or somebody ,"Who knows a woman,who knows a man,who's nephew,y'know,the deaf lad,who sez he heard a driver say etc etc....".

This is a mod warning for future threads:

Please ignore threads you just don't like and you can't post constructively in (or you can report ones which break the rules -- which does not apply here).

Positing nonsence and/or even posting that you don't see a point in the thread is off-topic and disruptive.

Do not reply to this post.

dowlingm

foggy_lad wrote: »

As it happened it is not rumour but fact and it is always good to keep up with what is happening with vehicles purchased by state companies. While it is a shame to see an almost €400000 bus written off it is a good thing that nobody was seriously injured.

When can the public expect a report on this incident I wonder or is that being kept under wraps by CIE/BE?

BE will be carrying insurance on that bus right? I know they self-insure for some stuff below 250K.

What sort of "report" do you have in mind, Foggy? It's not a rail or air vehicle so AAIU and RAIU won't be involved. The only other avenue for any public document to be generated would presumably be prosecution of BE and/or the driver depending on the cause of the crash, such as in this case:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0523/322091-bus-eireann-driver-jailed-over-fatal-crash-in-2009/

Patser

Actually seen that bus parked in the garage today and got a story about what happened. No way is it a write off, only the front driver's corner is damaged - looks bad but I've seen more damaged coaches back on the road quick enough.

Story I heard - possibly just gossip - was that the coach was turning right into a garage when a truck decided to overtake at that time, couldn't stop and clipped driver's corner while travelling from behind. No passengers seriously injured, driver badly shaken.

monument

dowlingm wrote: »

BE will be carrying insurance on that bus right? I know they self-insure for some stuff below 250K.

What sort of "report" do you have in mind, Foggy? It's not a rail or air vehicle so AAIU and RAIU won't be involved. The only other avenue for any public document to be generated would presumably be prosecution of BE and/or the driver depending on the cause of the crash, such as in this case:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0523/322091-bus-eireann-driver-jailed-over-fatal-crash-in-2009/

Depends on what you think is public or not... or what can be made public -- while BE is not subject to FOI, it is subject to Access to Information on the Environment. AIE was designed at EU level to be massively broad in scope.

Does it seem worth looking for further info in this case? No, not with the limited info we have.

Stevek101

Up on The Journal now with pic included.



Image: Paul Buckley/Twitter

www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-investigating-early-morning-crash-851283-Mar2013/

Cookie_Monster

Well it's since been proven above it's no way a write off and only a minor collision. That's why I don't see the point in posting such rumours, when they turn out so wrong!

foggy_lad wrote:

When can the public expect a report on this incident I wonder or is that being kept under wraps by CIE/BE?

why would you expect a report? Do you expect a report every time a bus has a minor crash? There is no need for a public report, only an insurance one for the immediate parties involved and their insurers.

Jamie2k9

All I will say on the matter is many people on here have given out about Irish Rail buying new trains in 2005 but very few if anybody has said a word about BE buying around 30 buses this year or taken delivery of them. What was scrapped to make way for all these coaches.

Also can we changes the title of the threat as its far from written off IMO.

Hilly Bill

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Well it's since been proven above it's no way a write off and only a minor collision. That's why I don't see the point in posting such rumours, when they turn out so wrong!

why would you expect a report? Do you expect a report every time a bus has a minor crash? There is no need for a public report, only an insurance one for the immediate parties involved and their insurers.

It was a question not a statement hence the ? at the end of the thread title.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

All I will say on the matter is many people on here have given out about Irish Rail buying new trains in 2005 but very few if anybody has said a word about BE buying around 30 buses this year or taken delivery of them. What was scrapped to make way for all these coaches.

Also can we changes the title of the threat as its far from written off IMO.

chalk and cheese.
. Are you suggesting BE withdrew and scrapped 5 year old buses ? There is a difference between selling on buses which aren't life expired (i know DB has done this) and scrapping them,
IE withdrew coaches which were not life expired and is scrapping them as there is no market for them, that is not the same as selling on fro re-use of buses .

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

chalk and cheese.
. Are you suggesting BE withdrew and scrapped 5 year old buses ? There is a difference between selling on buses which aren't life expired (i know DB has done this) and scrapping them,
IE withdrew coaches which were not life expired and is scrapping them as there is no market for them, that is not the same as selling on fro re-use of buses .

So who did they sell the buses to, very limited options like Irish Rail with the majority of the world driving on opposite side of the road. Did they sell all buses as 30 new would mean very close to 30 removed from fleet as they have not expanded services.

corktina

DB sold many deckers to Ensign , a dealer in Essex for resale. I saw quite a few en route in the UK myself! ( i believe the object was to get rid of non-low floor buses

I'd suggest BE replace a few dozen buses everyyear

(there are usually a few bendy buses for sale on ebay btw!

AlekSmart

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So who did they sell the buses to, very limited options like Irish Rail with the majority of the world driving on opposite side of the road.Did they sell all buses as 30 new would mean very close to 30 removed from fleet as they have not expanded services.

Far from limited Jamie2k9.

The manner in which BAC sold by competitive tender it's large fleet of non accessible vehicles ensured that large numbers of these machines found a second life with other owners not quite as concerned about public transport provisions of the Equality Act 2000 and assorted other pieces of disability access leglislation.

Large numbers of ex BAC vehicles now plod around the UK,having had their centre doors removed and a lick of paint applied.

A considerable number now also work in the better known Irish Private Operators fleets too.

http://bartons.ie/bartons-double-deckers.html

I'm quite surprised that a company of Bartons standing would advertise the ex-BAC vehicles they accquired as "Low-Floor Easy_Access",when BAC's prime reason for disposing of them was their inability to meet that specific legislative requirement.

Were the boot on the other foot,I could well envision the explosion of indignant postings here and elsewhere.....;)

This element also sprung to mind as I read of Swords Express winning the Chartered Institute of Logistics & Transport-Passenger Transport Company of the Year award.

With Swords Express continuing to operate vehicles,which being High-Floor Touring Coaches,fail to meet the accessibility standards I would have expected the Chartered Institute to at least qualify the award,however it's their gig so they can play it as they wish.

In the old CIE days,the company had a policy of ensuring that all of it's life expired vehicles were rendered unusable,with a very large scrapyard in Broadstone operating a full time destruction programme.

So,another example of a CIE company "Changing with the Times " ..?

dfx-

Considering AX587 is back with Dublin Bus after two/three years off from what I thought was unimaginable repair (pretty much a new left front and new doors), I would imagine a new bus will be kept on.

Jamie2k9

AlekSmart wrote: »

Far from limited Jamie2k9.

The manner in which BAC sold by competitive tender it's large fleet of non accessible vehicles ensured that large numbers of these machines found a second life with other owners not quite as concerned about public transport provisions of the Equality Act 2000 and assorted other pieces of disability access leglislation.

Large numbers of ex BAC vehicles now plod around the UK,having had their centre doors removed and a lick of paint applied.

A considerable number now also work in the better known Irish Private Operators fleets too.

http://bartons.ie/bartons-double-deckers.html

I'm quite surprised that a company of Bartons standing would advertise the ex-BAC vehicles they accquired as "Low-Floor Easy_Access",when BAC's prime reason for disposing of them was their inability to meet that specific legislative requirement.

Were the boot on the other foot,I could well envision the explosion of indignant postings here and elsewhere.....;)

This element also sprung to mind as I read of Swords Express winning the Chartered Institute of Logistics & Transport-Passenger Transport Company of the Year award.

With Swords Express continuing to operate vehicles,which being High-Floor Touring Coaches,fail to meet the accessibility standards I would have expected the Chartered Institute to at least qualify the award,however it's their gig so they can play it as they wish.

In the old CIE days,the company had a policy of ensuring that all of it's life expired vehicles were rendered unusable,with a very large scrapyard in Broadstone operating a full time destruction programme.

So,another example of a CIE company "Changing with the Times " ..?

Couldn't care to much about DB, but I still havn't an answer as to how many were sold or scrapped when the new buses at BE.

corktina

your question doesn't make sense Jamie. All bus operators routinely withdraw vehicles at x miles or x years and replace them with new buses. The withdrawn vehicles are then sold on if re-usable or scrapped for parts if not. What they don't do (which IE did) is withdraw usable vehicles and just scrap them

AlekSmart

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Couldn't care to much about DB, but I still havn't an answer as to how many were sold or scrapped when the new buses at BE.

Sorry Jamie2k9,however I suspect that,as with BAC,it's a case of one in-one out,direct replacement as,to my knowledge,no official sanction has been given for Fleet Expansion.

The only difference I can see,is in relation to the School Bus Contract with the Department of Education,which,at one time,involved the cascading of time expired vehicles.

However,this practice is now increasingly frowned upon both here and in the UK,and is providing quite a challenge to those involved.

Just for clarity Jamie2k9,are you suggesting some form of impropriety in relation to Bus Eireann's fleet replacement policy ?

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

Considering AX587 is back with Dublin Bus after two/three years off from what I thought was unimaginable repair (pretty much a new left front and new doors), I would imagine a new bus will be kept on.

Modern methods of Bus & Coach construction and subsequent repair are all dedicated towards Modular Construction.

This allows for accident damage,often hugely destructive to an outside observer,to be isolated and repaired in a cost effective manner not possible heretofore.

Most bodywork elements are now designed to be light and constructed in a manner which allows the forces involved in an accident to be disseminated throughout the framework.

The bolted nature of the framework then allows for the replacement of stressed elements as required.

In the olden days with Chassis Rail construction,a serious shunt which deformed the actual chassis alignment would almost certainly result in a write-off and resultant cannibalization....:(

dfx-

A whole section from corner to cab to axel needed work:

http://ru-ru.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=179893548765034&set=a.179892255431830.48331.175318952555827&type=3&theater

Happened March 09, out for 3.5 years..never thought I'd see it back.

Jamie2k9

your question doesn't make sense Jamie. All bus operators routinelywithdraw vehicles at x miles or x years and replace them with new buses. Thewithdrawn vehicles are then sold on if re-usable or scrapped for parts if not.What they don't do (which IE did) is withdraw usable vehicles and just scrapthem

Yes removing from service at X miles is fine but removing them from serviceat X years is not, or is it ok to remove buses that are old but stillserviceable yet its not alight for IE to do the same with the trains?

Just for clarity Jamie2k9,are you suggesting some form of improprietyin relation to Bus Eireann's fleet replacement policy ?

Not saying anything of the sort but would like to know how many buses werescrapped because they reached their limits and how many were sold on for noreason at all.

What they don't do (which IE did) is withdraw usable vehicles andjust scrap them

Until somebody can confirm that all buses withdrawn from servicewere for millage reasons or they were sold on and BTW IrishRails trains were not in compliance with EU regulations for access and the environment.

corktina

why is it not alright to sell on 5 or 6 year old buses? The Bus Co in my home place did this and replaced them with new, swapping singles for doubles and swapping from 4 an hour to 3. The buses replaced were in great condition still and a good price no doubt was got. Selling them on (or using for spares) is NOT the same as just scrapping them

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

why is it not alright to sell on 5 or 6 year old buses? The Bus Co in my home place did this and replaced them with new, swapping singles for doubles and swapping from 4 an hour to 3. The buses replaced were in great condition still and a good price no doubt was got. Selling them on (or using for spares) is NOT the same as just scrapping them

If IE tried to sell them they know that nobody would take them as European Railways are largely EMU or DMU unites. There is a problem for a CIE loss making company selling buses and getting new ones when there is no need to.

AlekSmart

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If IE tried to sell them they know that nobody would take them as European Railways are largely EMU or DMU unites. There is a problem for a CIE loss making company selling buses and getting new ones when there is no need to.

Perhaps I'm wrong,but I think the issues of Rail and Road vehicle disposal policies are vastly different and have almost no bearing upon each other.

With the entity of CIE being a holding company,the issues of vehicle management fall totally within the remits of the individual subsidiaries.

It is important,I would agree,to note the effect which our Railway Gauge has upon any potential resale value,but this is totally different to the Road Vehicle situation where BAC/BE vehicles are now highly regarded on the second-hand market due to their being maintained in compliance with Manufactuirers Recommendations,something which was not a feature in bygone years.

I remain uncertain as to the overall points you make,however to address this particular one....

Not saying anything of the sort but would like to know how many were sold on for noreason at all.

The answer would be none.

corktina

have you any evidence of that ? Not sure where you are coming from!

IE definitely did this ,writing their Mk3s off their books as scrap but I have seen no evidence of BE doing this! They get new buses every year pretty much, presumably withdrawing a similar number of life expired buses for scrap/parts or for resale if re-usable.

Conway635

To answer Jamie's question about BE disposals.

There are two different strands within the fleet - leased and owned.

Batches of coaches are leased for 3, 5 or 6 years, and simply return off lease to the owner.

Owned coaches are "cascaded" in a series of steps from frontline intercity, to regional routes, rural/local routes, and finally school services.

On final replacement, buses are sold via public tender (as with DB) and some find their way to resellers such as Ensign in the UK, or other operators.

Most recently the cascades have seen the final removal from the fleet, at the bottom end, of the PD class DAF/Plaxton coaches of 1992/3, which were once the prime Expressway vehicles, and indeed operated the Galway-London service in their heyday.

At 20 years of age, these buses had given pretty good service to the company.

They have also sold off in recent years some former city single-decks which were about 12/13 years old, had been used much more intensively, and which also went via public tender.

C635

Conway635

Here is a list of the last batch of city buses (not coaches) put up for sale by BE via public tender. (tender is now closed) You will notice it is selected members of a class rather than every example - the high mileage ones being picked off first.

Fleet no.

Location

Engine

Transmission

Model

Reg. No.

Sum Offered in Euro

DPC4

Dundalk

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D84195

DPC5

Broadstone

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D84183

DPC6

Broadstone

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D84190

DPC7

Broadstone

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D84184

DPC15

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D89237

DPC16

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D89239

DPC17

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D91436

DPC18

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D91438

DPC19

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D91435

DPC20

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D91440

DPC21

Galway

Cummins B5.9 145

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer

00D91442

DPC30

Broadstone

Cummins B3.9 150

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer 10.7m

02C20215

DPC31

Broadstone

Cummins B3.9 150

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

Dennis/Plaxton Pointer 10.7m

02C20216

DWR10

Sligo Quay

Cummins CS107

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

DAF SB120/Wrights Cadet

01D4780

DWR16

Limerick

Cummins CS107

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

DAF SB120/Wrights Cadet

01D4796

DWM13

Limerick

Cummins CS107

Allison AT545 Auto 4-Spd.

DAF SB120/Wrights Cadet

00D96299

VWL2

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99D37615

Fleet no.

Location

Engine

Transmission

Model

Reg. No.

Sum Offered in Euro

VWL3

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99D37620

VWL4

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99D37623

VWL5

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99D37626

VWL6

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18895

VWL7

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18896

VWL8

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18897

VWL9

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18898

VWL10

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18899

VWL11

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10L/Wrights Renown

99C18900

VWL101

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C27964

VWL102

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C27969

VWL104

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C27973

VWL108

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C30278

VWL109

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C30280

VWL111

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C29578

VWL112

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C29579

VWL113

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C30850

Fleet no.

Location

Engine

Transmission

Model

Reg. No.

Sum Offered in Euro

VWL114

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C30851

VWL116

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C31053

VWL117

Broadstone

Volvo DH10A-245

ZF 4HP500 EST18 Auto 4-Spd.

Volvo B10BLE/Wrights Renown

00C31056

Conway635

Sorry - the above was much more neatly formatted and taking up less space when I copied it in!

C635

AlekSmart

Conway635 wrote: »

Sorry - the above was much more neatly formatted and taking up less space when I copied it in!

C635

Sound man Conway635.

A comprehensive account for sure.

The main point is that the Fleet Replacement process is as transparent as possible and it's elements are in the public domain.

I'm not quite sure as to what the OP's issue actually is,but it appears to focus on a belief that BE is playing fast and loose in some way in relation to Fleet replacement ?

I think it's fair to say that Bus Eireann adhere to,and in many cases,exceed the EU averages in relation to sweated vehicular assets in operational terms.

Not many spare vehicles lying around either CIE Bus Operations these days.

monument

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm not quite sure as to what the OP's issue actually is,but it appears to focus on a belief that BE is playing fast and loose in some way in relation to Fleet replacement ?

This is the final in-thread warning:

The next one to take pot shots at the OP or his motivations gets a month's ban.

Do not reply to this post!

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

Sound man Conway635.

A comprehensive account for sure.

The main point is that the Fleet Replacement process is as transparent as possible and it's elements are in the public domain.

I'm not quite sure as to what the OP's issue actually is,but it appears to focus on a belief that BE is playing fast and loose in some way in relation to Fleet replacement ?

I think it's fair to say that Bus Eireann adhere to,and in many cases,exceed the EU averages in relation to sweated vehicular assets in operational terms.

Not many spare vehicles lying around either CIE Bus Operations these days.

NB: Just to clarify for all who are following this thread,I should,of course have made it clear that the OP in this particular issue is Jamie2k9 and not any other poster.

Apologies if this may have led to confusion in any way.

Vic_08

AlekSmart wrote: »

Apologies if this may have led to confusion in any way.

You are not the one who should be apologising.