Proposed CAP changes

Irishmale

Am farming a lock of land with no entitlements on it. I didn't have it during the reference years and so have more land than entitlements.
With these changes should i be trying to get entitlements for this land before its too late and they average my current payment over all the land and give me more entitlements of a reduced value
or

will i get more entitlements because i am farming now more hectares?

kowtow

I'm in the same position (more or less) and I'd love to know what the advice is in these circumstances.

I bought a small farm here in 2012 - I did buy a couple of Ha of spare entitlements at the same time but the first time they will be used, if I apply for SFP, is 2013, and they are nowhere near enough to cover the land I bought.

I'm too old to be a young farmer (early forties) and of course I have no land / history in any of the reference years.

Tempted to do nothing and buy whatever entitlements make sense (if I can buy them, that is) once the new regime settles down - or alternatively not bother at all with the CAP regime...

Irishmale

Ya, bought land just before references years last time. Sold all cows for deposit and set some land to keep going so only have about 2/3 entitlements. Havent really been able to develop farm too much or buy entitlements due to loans alread etc but getting to end of it now. Been putting all farm in sfp because of nitrates and was hoping that the New reference year would generate new entitlements for me for the whole place

Pharaoh1

This week's Journal has an article on this exact question.
No simple answer and a lot depends on your circumstances but it might be worth a read.

Irishmale

I'll check it out and see what it says. Thanks pharoh.

coolshannagh28

Believe it or not I posted this question on Dacian Ciolos facebook and the reply was that a bulked up national reserve will will deal with situations like this

Irishmale

Ill get the pen ready to fill in applications.

Markcheese

I thought it was going to be all area based ? Or is that last weeks news ?

Irishmale

Thought that for a bit myself. Was delighted. article in the Journal referred to above says they will now average out my current payment across all my 2012 submitted acres. which is no good at all really. could do with the sub for all the acres am farming

kowtow

Irishmale wrote: »

Thought that for a bit myself. Was delighted. article in the Journal referred to above says they will now average out my current payment across all my 2012 submitted acres. which is no good at all really. could do with the sub for all the acres am farming

I had a similar thought, and then the bond-dealer / banker in me took over and reminded me that anything divided by zero is infinity.

So by virtue of having no hectares in 2012, and a handful now, the CAP is mine, all of it - or at least Ireland's entire allocation.

Big or small, productive or lazy - the rest of you must starve !

pluto2

So guys, what about a fellow just getting his land back from a lease, will he be able to use his leased out entitlements. going forward, though he didnt have any in his name in the reference years. They were all originally his{and hard earned) as was his land, before he went into this lease.. Where does he stand now?

Manoffeeling

pluto2 wrote: »

So guys, what about a fellow just getting his land back from a lease, will he be able to use his leased out entitlements. going forward, though he didnt have any in his name in the reference years. They were all originally his{and hard earned) as was his land, before he went into this lease.. Where does he stand now?

I think you are standing with nothing only your entitlements. If you lodged an area aid form you are ok, if you didn't, then, you're screwed, I think.

pluto2

Hello manofeeling ,
I hope you are wrong. Theres supposed to be notes just on that topic on next weeks journal.I hope they accomodate us, otherwise we will just have to back to leasing out again for Euro 350 per acre and upwards, and the farmer taking it will lose out anyway. Or I could put it back to grass, and let in some tangler in with cattle from god knows where, scares the **** out of the neighbours, and they will pay up just to keep out the TB etc. Their call!

pluto2

(I think you are standing with nothing only your entitlements. If you lodged an area aid form you are ok, if you didn't, then, you're screwed, I think.)[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong, I want to farm the place, I still have all the gear/facilities. I had to lease it out because of circumstances at the time. So I think it would actually be illegal to prevent a farmer re activating his entitlements. He couldnt in 2011/12 because they were temporarly given away with land in a lease. They were genuinely built up over a long number of years. Suppose I'll have to wait and see.

Irishmale

SO many permutations. I may have to start my own farming union splinter group to represent my own specific requirements in this matter!

The old Mont Blanc pen will be brought out to apply to N Reserve id reckon and make my case. Sure thats what the N Reserve is for no?

yellow50HX

i'm kinda tempted to get into the car and drive off down to the outher side of carrigaline and have a nose at what is happening at the covney farm. as i doubt they will get caught out if they are selling cows and planting loads of tillage i'll do the same, if they are getting into fr bull beef i'll do the same.

nothing like having a friend in the know!

Horace

you may have a wasted journey yellow50HX as i recall Covney sold his farm a few years back

yellow50HX

Horace wrote: »

you may have a wasted journey yellow50HX as i recall Covney sold his farm a few years back

i thought it was just his share in it he sold and someone in the family bought it out.

Quote from his homepage

"Mr. Coveney continues to be involved in the running of a family farm in County Cork."

maybe my spying mission wont be a total loss,

Irishmale

been reading Mr. youngs articles in the journal and it seems to be the sfp that i recieved in 2012 is my cap and then it will be divided over the hectares i then submit in 2015 which will greatly reduce the value of the entitlements i have before the cuts. This is surely unfair to me, an active farmer who expanded the size of the farm.

We will have to wait and see what the parliament come up with.

pluto2

I know what you mean. But its not ironed out yet. Theres a lot more details to be worked out yet. Theres a lot of farmers like you in this situation. I'm not sure where I stand either, whether I will be able to activate my earlier entitlements or not, yesterdays journal kinda gives me a way of doing it. I'll have to wait and see.