"Log cabin"

TheMilkyPirate

Me and my fiancee are currently renting but are now looking to build a Log cabin on the grounds of her parents house. It will be a small two bedroom building compromising a sitting room/bathroom/kitchen and the two bedrooms.

There seem to be plenty of companies who specialize in this in Ireland and we have picked out a few that we like already, I'm not sure if I can link to them here or if I could throw up a picture to show you what exactly were looking for.

My questions are how are the "houses" plumbed? There is no mention of it on any of these sites and I was under the impression this would have to be done before work started.

Also our budget is €20,000 for everything from the base right through to decorating. The one's we are looking for are in the region of €9,000 - €12,000.

We really like this idea but I'm also wondering would we have a better option with out budget?

Is there anyone on here who has done a project such as this?

Maudi

baraca wrote: »

Me and my fiancee are currently renting but are now looking to build a Log cabin on the grounds of her parents house. It will be a small two bedroom building compromising a sitting room/bathroom/kitchen and the two bedrooms.

There seem to be plenty of companies who specialize in this in Ireland and we have picked out a few that we like already, I'm not sure if I can link to them here or if I could throw up a picture to show you what exactly were looking for.

My questions are how are the "houses" plumbed? There is no mention of it on any of these sites and I was under the impression this would have to be done before work started.

Also our budget is €20,000 for everything from the base right through to decorating. The one's we are looking for are in the region of €9,000 - €12,000.

We really like this idea but I'm also wondering would we have a better option with out budget?

Is there anyone on here who has done a project such as this?

ive been investigating straw bale houses lately.have you considered them?

rayjdav

Realistically, with that budget you won't get too far tbh.
This WILL require planning permission. You will need to either provide treatment system or connection to sewers, so either way more money.
Development Contributions.
Legal fees to tranfer title of lands for build.
Ground works external.
Then you may be able to start thinking of the actual build process.
Not trying to burst bubbles but seriously imho not a chance with those $$.
BTW, ask the prefab manufactuer for what they provide or not and how they do their build process. Thats what they are been paid for, no?

TheMilkyPirate

rayjdav wrote: »

Realistically, with that budget you won't get too far tbh.
This WILL require planning permission. You will need to either provide treatment system or connection to sewers, so either way more money.
Development Contributions.
Legal fees to tranfer title of lands for build.
Ground works external.
Then you may be able to start thinking of the actual build process.
Not trying to burst bubbles but seriously imho not a chance with those $$.
BTW, ask the prefab manufactuer for what they provide or not and how they do their build process. Thats what they are been paid for, no?

I'm aware it will require PP. Legal fees to transfer titles aren't going to be astronomical. Ground works consist of a simple concrete base, Again minimal cost.

The cost of the cabin we are interested in comes to a rounded figure of €12,000 delivered and installed. This leaves us with about €8,000 for everything else. Am I really that far over my head with prices?

Poor Uncle Tom

baraca wrote: »

Me and my fiancee are currently renting but are now looking to build a Log cabin on the grounds of her parents house. It will be a small two bedroom building compromising a sitting room/bathroom/kitchen and the two bedrooms.

There seem to be plenty of companies who specialize in this in Ireland and we have picked out a few that we like already, I'm not sure if I can link to them here or if I could throw up a picture to show you what exactly were looking for.

My questions are how are the "houses" plumbed? There is no mention of it on any of these sites and I was under the impression this would have to be done before work started.

Also our budget is €20,000 for everything from the base right through to decorating. The one's we are looking for are in the region of €9,000 - €12,000.

We really like this idea but I'm also wondering would we have a better option with out budget?

Is there anyone on here who has done a project such as this?

You won't get it done for that. A 'log cabin' or 'plank hut' in their true form will not comply with building regulations.

As stated above, you will need planning permission, you will have building contributions, sewerage disposal, base for development, etc. All your budget is gone at this stage plus more. There may be other ways but this isn't one of them.

david65

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You won't get it done for that. A 'log cabin' or 'plank hut' in their true form will not comply with building regulations.

As stated above, you will need planning permission, you will have building contributions, sewerage disposal, base for development, etc. All your budget is gone at this stage plus more. There may be other ways but this isn't one of them.

I agree that they won't get it done for that figure, but you state there may be other way's-ideas?

Poor Uncle Tom

david65 wrote: »

.....you state there may be other way's-ideas?

A little bit of oblique thinking comes in handy now and then to attempt to solve some off standard problems.

In this case the OP might be better advised to keep an eye out at all the local schools. There has been a lot of talk lately about Government spending monies replacing Pre-Fab class rooms with purpose built new builds. Offer to take one or two of the old rooms and join them to make one new house. It would need new insulations and some renovations and partitioning but the basics of plumbing and wiring may be there, windows and some doors in place and the base units should only cost a crane to move it. With the additional works, sewerage and electric connection, I think all that could be done for €20k.

I said in this case here as the OP is talking about buying in the base unit. If s/he were willing to consider doing a lot of the works themselves, then straw bale construction, cob build, tyre pack build, wattle and daub construction, etc., could be considered.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

You won't get it done for that. A 'log cabin' or 'plank hut' in their true form will not comply with building regulations.

I'm curious here, these products are being marketed, and while I accept the opinion, that they may not comply with Reg's, who, is buying them.
Are they aimed at the 5-10% ( my figure, )who may ignore the Planning laws, or who??

Similarly the Steel Type, Garden Chalets, described by PUT as ''plonk on a base'' what's the story there,

anyone install one of these, and can give us the SP.

Or any Arch's with a case history??

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

I'm curious here, these products are being marketed, and while I accept the opinion, that they may not comply with Reg's, who, is buying them.
Are they aimed at the 5-10% ( my figure, )who may ignore the Planning laws, or who??

Similarly the Steel Type, Garden Chalets, described by PUT as ''plonk on a base'' what's the story there,

anyone install one of these, and can give us the SP.

Or any Arch's with a case history??

Short answer.

Up until recently it was easy enough to get those types of build over the line to compliance with the building regulations. Now that the regulations have been severely updated it is much harder to make one of them compliant, to the point that it is not economical to consider them as a carcassing structure to begin with.

I think the a lot of the people selling those don't have a clue about current Building Regulations.

martinn123

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Short answer.

Up until recently it was easy enough to get those types of build over the line to compliance with the building regulations.

Could you expand on this, please, are we talking specific changes in Reg's or the old Chestnut of '' In My Opinion'' where things were ''not apparent''

Poor Uncle Tom wrote:

Now that the regulations have been severely updated it is much harder to make one of them compliant, to the point that it is not economical to consider them as a carcassing structure to begin with.

I think the a lot of the people selling those don't have a clue about current Building Regulations.

Yes I think you are right on this point., but still interested in any actual cases if Arch's can post an example...thanks.

Poor Uncle Tom

martinn123 wrote: »

....are we talking specific changes in Reg's...

Yes indeed, New part L being a point in case.'

TheMilkyPirate

Assuming everything else was taken care of would the cabin not be able to connect to the main houses seweage system? The main house is about 20 foot away.

Poor Uncle Tom

baraca wrote: »

Assuming everything else was taken care of would the cabin not be able to connect to the main houses seweage system? The main house is about 20 foot away.

LA's generally like to see unconnected living units (houses) with their own services just in case the properties need to be separated, or if there are separate mortgages or loans needed on each.

TheMilkyPirate

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

LA's generally like to see unconnected living units (houses) with their own services just in case the properties need to be separated, or if there are separate mortgages or loans needed on each.

I see. With regards to a question posed by another poster which was who exactly are these garden homes marketed to seen as apparently nobody can build them?

Poor Uncle Tom

baraca wrote: »

....who exactly are these garden homes marketed to seen as apparently nobody can build them?

Not for me to answer, that's a question each of the manufacturers have to answer for themselves regarding compliance with the current building regulations.

martinn123

baraca wrote: »

I see. With regards to a question posed by another poster which was who exactly are these garden homes marketed to seen as apparently nobody can build them?

Seems so, but that's why I asked for any actual cases from say an Arch, while I accept the opinions as posted, maybe someone has a case history, to share

cormie

Where would they fail on meeting the regulations? Insulation etc or what else has been introduced? Is it possible they can be made to meet the reg's and do the straw bale homes face the same issues or are these equally not meeting recent regulations?

shinkansen

been looking at a log cabin also myself, you would not even get utilities etc and have the place furnished and fitted for 12k euro.

TheMilkyPirate

shinkansen wrote: »

been looking at a log cabin also myself, you would not even get utilities etc and have the place furnished and fitted for 12k euro.

Ours is very small, 6m x 6m.

Drumshambo is the name of one we were looking at (I won't link) comes in at €6900 another 1000 for installation. All my friends are qualified tradesman, so plumbing and electrical would cost hardly anything.

All the furnishings in the house we are renting are ours.

shinkansen

you want to live in this place? i have been looking at one in the uk, but would need the most of 120k gbp to get it all in.

TheMilkyPirate

shinkansen wrote: »

you want to live in this place? i have been looking at one in the uk, but would need the most of 120k gbp to get it all in.

Temporarly yes. It's the very same as some 2 bed flats here in town, Except it would be ours and loan repayments cheaper than rent.

This is the interior:

shinkansen

jaysis, thats small. i would seriously consider getting a bigger one for a long term investment.

Poor Uncle Tom

Can anyone seriously not see what is wrong with that picture taking the section of the external wall in line with the building regulations given that picture shows the finished article with furnishings inside?

cormie

I haven't a clue about building regs I'm guessing it's something to do with insulation and that maybe it would fail a BER?

JohnFalstaff

Just as an alternative - what about one of the homes being made out of old shipping containers?

They actually look surprisingly decent:


And they can be connected to waste water disposal, gas, electricity etc.

Google My Pad and there is lots of info, not sure of prices or how they conform to planning regs though.

leanonme

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Can anyone seriously not see what is wrong with that picture taking the section of the external wall in line with the building regulations given that picture shows the finished article with furnishings inside?

Would I be right in saying that it might not meet fire safety regulations, as the only door in and out in located near the kitchen so i the event of a fire the main escape route is in the room which fires usually start. Not unless the windows in the bedrooms are fire safety routes.

Also the bathroom is off the kitchen living area, im not sure if this is an issue, but for hygiene reasons I would imagine it is not good.

Would you not consider a mobile home, as many people have lived in them for a number of years, and they look more spacious than that.

muffler

cormie wrote: »

I haven't a clue about building regs I'm guessing it's something to do with insulation and that maybe it would fail a BER?

The building regs are broken into sections and I would be fairly sure that it would be impossible to comply with the requirements of any of the sections.

Something simple but very important I noticed immediately when looking at the image above is that there is no wheelchair parking allowed for in the bathroom. A 1200mm x 750mm unobstructed floor space is required.

@ baraca....I would give up the ghost and start saving for a house rather than a shed.

sydthebeat

martinn123 wrote: »

Yes I think you are right on this point., but still interested in any actual cases if Arch's can post an example...thanks.

what are you looking for? cases where someone has said they wouldnt sign off such a structure as being regulation compliant?

martinn123

sydthebeat wrote: »

what are you looking for? cases where someone has said they wouldnt sign off such a structure as being regulation compliant?

No. I would hope it did not make it that far.

Perhaps a case where one of the products on the market was examined, on behalf of a client, and reasons explained that it does not comply.

I am just looking for details on some of these products, and as to why they are being purchased.

I suppose in the current economic climate, people are looking for cheaper housing possibilities.

sydthebeat

assuming we are talking about units which are non compliant.... then examples of why they may be purchased:

1. location with designated parks for holiday homes
2. purchased as 'stand alone' units for the enjoyment of a dwelling ie hobby room, workshop etc.
3. purchased as a temporary dwelling by self builders 'living on site'
4. purchased by those ignorant of regulations
5. purchased by those deliberately flouting of regulations.

a simply example is a caravan, while they dont comply with regulation, there are many cases in which they can be erected. i see these as a higher standard caravan.

cormie

What kind of costs would compliance to recent regulations add? A bit of extra floorspace for wheelchairs in the bathroom wouldn't be so much. What else are we talking? Fire safety doors? Is a wood construction itself a fire hazard so would automatically not pass? I guess this would apply to straw bale too?

I like the look of these and have been in one before that was used as a permanent dwelling in much the same way the OP is referring to, outside the back of the parents garden for son, girlfriend and child. There was issues with mould as it was built too close to the wall of the garden so moisture built up there I think but other than that, I think they were pretty happy with it. Theirs cost about €12,000 for the pack and they did the rest of the work themselves.

Poor Uncle Tom

cormie wrote: »

What kind of costs would compliance to recent regulations add? A bit of extra floorspace for wheelchairs in the bathroom wouldn't be so much. What else are we talking? Fire safety doors? Is a wood construction itself a fire hazard so would automatically not pass? I guess this would apply to straw bale too?

Take the outer skin of that example, as it's shown I would guess as 75mm thick 'pine' timber. As a solid timber external wall, without any insulation, what thickness would be acceptable to comply with Part L of the regulations without making the wall a composite? I don't know what the actual u value of that 75mm timber wall is, but I would hazard a guess that the actual solid timber would need to be around 400 - 500mm thick to comply, if a single skin would comply at all. That's only one aspect.

martinn123

sydthebeat wrote: »

assuming we are talking about units which are non compliant.... then examples of why they may be purchased:

1. location with designated parks for holiday homes
2. purchased as 'stand alone' units for the enjoyment of a dwelling ie hobby room, workshop etc.
3. purchased as a temporary dwelling by self builders 'living on site'
4. purchased by those ignorant of regulations
5. purchased by those deliberately flouting of regulations.

a simply example is a caravan, while they dont comply with regulation, there are many cases in which they can be erected. i see these as a higher standard caravan.

Thanks for that, but you misunderstand my question.

The OP has posted with a product, which is being marketed as a Residential Unit, however the opinions posted are that it does not comply.
So we have, log cabins, steel type products, and the Shomera type all marketed at the residential market.

Do any of them stand up to scrutiny, or is a blanket no, thats why i asked for any cases, perhaps there are products which are OK.???

belcampprisoner

most places will not let you build to live in it,most irish log cabins are crap,you have to get uk to build cheaper,the price your looking dfor is a garden shed,you need double layer and insulation

sydthebeat

martinn123 wrote: »

Thanks for that, but you misunderstand my question.

The OP has posted with a product, which is being marketed as a Residential Unit, however the opinions posted are that it does not comply.
So we have, log cabins, steel type products, and the Shomera type all marketed at the residential market.

Do any of them stand up to scrutiny, or is a blanket no, thats why i asked for any cases, perhaps there are products which are OK.???

the 'fit for purpose'-ness of these products are dependent on the purpose they are used for.

for example some extensions and stand alone buildings are exempt from building regulations....

do you think the fact that they are advertised as "residential units" means the companies producing them will stand over their compliance in every instance???

martinn123

sydthebeat wrote: »

the 'fit for purpose'-ness of these products are dependent on the purpose they are used for.

for example some extensions and stand alone buildings are exempt from building regulations....

I think this thread is about, stand alone, residential,i.e sleeping, cooking, and bathroom, log cabin type structures

sydthebeat wrote:

do you think the fact that they are advertised as "residential units" means the companies producing them will stand over their compliance in every instance???

I doubt if they will stand over them at all, on compliance, that's why I am seeking examples, if there are any?? but getting nowhere......thanks

cormie

It seems Martin is looking to see if there's any companies out there who build and supply log "homes" that DO meet regulations? It seems if there's so many out there who are just supplying a nice shaped box with a few rooms that don't meet regulations, then there's surely a market out there for a company to provide ready to go homes that are built to regulation that would cost a fraction of what a regular house might cost and could be erected in a fraction of the time too? At what stage does such a structure require planning permission? is it once it becomes a place where somebody is living?

martinn123

Thanks for that @cormie
I don't want to take over the thread, but to tie in with the OP, to see if any products, might suit his/her requirements. Based on any research say an Architect might have conducted.
I have my own interest , obviously, but i did not start the thread

muffler

martinn123 wrote: »

I doubt if they will stand over them at all, on compliance, that's why I am seeking examples, if there are any?? but getting nowhere......thanks

Im not sure why exactly you are pushing this issue but I have an idea as its nothing new for you to question anything and everything that needs certification.

I'll make this very simple. No one who has posted here is aware of any such structure. If they were they would have posted details so you can drop the "getting nowhere" act.

BryanF

My two cents - I've been asked by more than one potential client 'what do I need to do to rectify this planning inforcement notice?' Due to log cabin back yard installs use as dwellings

Instead of asking for examples OP, why not give us the specification your Wendy house company is offering.
Btw the way I'm an advocate of timber frame but your pricing, type and design is unrealistic unless you ignore current regulations, which I wouldn't recommend.
I've also experienced clients who ignore the legislation in the 'now' but then move on with their lives and regret it- perhaps worried about loved ones left with the mess, need a mortgage top up or want to sell - it tends to be a Drawn out & expensive remedy..

sydthebeat

The obvious compliant kit homes are the already well known types such as griffner coillte and their like.
These homes tend to be a lot more expensive than block build, well maybe not any more when considering 2011 regs.

Ireland does not have trailer park residential estates. This promise of kit homes at €20 a sq ft is not realistic.

Dickie10

would u not be able to chance it wihout PP iv seen a few on raised concrete stilts, no planning as their seen as not permanant like a mobile home id chance it an aul garden well hid

BryanF

Dickie10 wrote: »

would u not be able to chance it wihout PP iv seen a few on raised concrete stilts, no planning as their seen as not permanant like a mobile home id chance it an aul garden well hid

We obey the law in this forum.
Read the forum charter before posting again.

Mobile homes other than storage, need planning.

As do log cabins, stilts or no stilts.

Thread closed.