Off Site Backup Tapes and Fireproof Safes

RangeR

Hey, I'm working on polishing up a few infrastructural holes over the coming months.

Is it possible to purchase a fireproof safe to fit one backup tape [approx 3"x3"x1"]. I've had a quick look around and couldn't find a product.

I bring one backup tape home with me every night. I want to make sure it is secure in case my house burns down etc blah blah.

I certainly don't want to lug one of these around in my MR2 every day.

Anyone?

ironclaw

The difficulty with something that small however is it will offer no theft protection. Is that a concern?

You can get document bags / safes that are burn proof (Within reason). Might be a solution. But your probably better off buying a larger safe anyway for the house. Keep your own valuables safe and they are not too expensive these days.

BaconZombie

Most fire safes will only protect for about 2-3 hours.

How about hiring an offsite storage company.

Dermot Illogical

You've alluded to working in the HSE elsewhere. You have no business bringing backup tapes home from there, firesafe or no firesafe.
And if they're also unencrypted... :eek:

But hopefully you're talking about someplace else.

RangeR

ironclaw wrote: »

The difficulty with something that small however is it will offer no theft protection. Is that a concern?

You can get document bags / safes that are burn proof (Within reason). Might be a solution. But your probably better off buying a larger safe anyway for the house. Keep your own valuables safe and they are not too expensive these days.

Theft is not a concern. Even a large safe form home can be stolen. My ideal is to remove tape from drive, put it in a fireproof container, drive home with said container, bring it in to the house, rest for 8 to 10 hours, then bring said container with tape back to the office.

BaconZombie wrote: »

How about hiring an offsite storage company.

Not a realistic option. Off siteness will only be over night.

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You've alluded to working in the HSE elsewhere. You have no business bringing backup tapes home from there, firesafe or no firesafe.
And if they're also unencrypted... :eek:

But hopefully you're talking about someplace else.

Tapes are encrypted.
I don't work for, or alluded to work for, HSE. Was merely musing over the various data losses over the years, by them, and them still not learning.

Thanks all for the input. Have a few suggestions now.

Dermot Illogical

RangeR wrote: »

Tapes are encrypted.
I don't work for, or alluded to work for, HSE. Was merely musing over the various data losses over the years, by them, and them still not learning.

Ah! My misread so.
Sorry 'bout that..

UDP

OP, you could buy something like one of these as they are portable if required. Remember many of these types of products are just fireproof for 30-60 minutes - not sure how much help that would be.

Not sure why you need to have fireproof safe in your house though. You should be backing up to disk first then backing up to tape. That would mean that data would have to be lost on both the original location and backup to disk location before the backup tape is required. Then whats the odds you will have a fire at your place at the same time.

BaconZombie

I REALLY hope you are using more then 1 backup tape, evening if ALL your data fits on 1 tape.

If you have the backup window do a full backup to 2 different tapes and store then to two different locations.

Get a set of 5-10 tapes and rotate the tapes even 4 weeks.
They means you a multi backup and can do test restore also if you find out there is data corruption a week ago you can still remove the data.

Also DO A TEST RESTORE EVERY WEEK!!!
Restore to a different location, best is to a different system {desktop,laptop or Server} but at least to a DR folder on the same Server.

You can then delete the file after.
This is coming from somebody who has had to get data back and tapes have either CRC'd to been eaten by the tape drive and we had to put a screw driver through then and ripe out the magnetic tape since it could not be fully remove from the drive and we could not give the drive back to the Dell with data on the tape.

RangeR wrote: »

Not a realistic option. Off siteness will only be over night.



Tapes are encrypted.
I don't work for, or alluded to work for, HSE. Was merely musing over the various data losses over the years, by them, and them still not learning.

Thanks all for the input. Have a few suggestions now.

RangeR

UDP wrote: »

OP, you could buy something like one of these as they are portable if required. Remember many of these types of products are just fireproof for 30-60 minutes - not sure how much help that would be.

Not sure why you need to have fireproof safe in your house though. You should be backing up to disk first then backing up to tape. That would mean that data would have to be lost on both the original location and backup to disk location before the backup tape is required. Then whats the odds you will have a fire at your place at the same time.

We have realtime off site replication to disk and nightly tapes. A recent IT Security Audit recommended that a firesafe be used for "at home off site backup". I can't find a safe for under a squillion euro that is rated more then 2 hours.

Dermot Illogical

RangeR wrote: »

We have realtime off site replication to disk and nightly tapes. A recent IT Security Audit recommended that a firesafe be used for "at home off site backup". I can't find a safe for under a squillion euro that is rated more then 2 hours.

Did the audit recommend having "at home off site backup", or just state that you use a firesafe if they were part of your system?

ironclaw

RangeR wrote: »

We have realtime off site replication to disk and nightly tapes. A recent IT Security Audit recommended that a firesafe be used for "at home off site backup". I can't find a safe for under a squillion euro that is rated more then 2 hours.

The chances of a domestic fire burning hot enough and long enough to require a safe of that magnitude is slim. Careful placement in the property will also reduce the time requirements.

There are smaller safes available for the likes of the law and accountancy industry.

Capt'n Midnight

Aldi/Lidl do cheap n' cheerful media safes

which would fit in a bigger one :pac:


Trick is to check they are approved, how long their fire rating is, and if they are rated for magnetic media.

In the old days a fire safe was just to stop paper catching fire Fahrenheit 451 and all that, stuff like plaster which gave off steam when it gets very hot will protect paper but tapes will be melted long before that.

Also check if you have a second site / location at work , depending on the time it takes you could also have a second tape for a second person to carry to a second location

RangeR

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Did the audit recommend having "at home off site backup", or just state that you use a firesafe if they were part of your system?

Recommended a home fire safe because the tape was brought home.

BaconZombie

Most places would not recommend data be taken home to an employee.
Another option you can do is get a deposit box at your bank and depending on how often your finance dept has to drop items to the bank they could swap out tapes as well.

RangeR wrote: »

We have realtime off site replication to disk and nightly tapes. A recent IT Security Audit recommended that a firesafe be used for "at home off site backup". I can't find a safe for under a squillion euro that is rated more then 2 hours.

RangeR wrote: »

Recommended a home fire safe because the tape was brought home.

UDP

BaconZombie wrote: »

Most places would not recommend data be taken home to an employee.

That's what I would have thought too. Strange that coming from an IT Security Auditor.

BaconZombie

An IT Security Auditor or a QSA?

UDP wrote: »

That's what I would have thought too. Strange that coming from an IT Security Auditor.

neilmemo

If you are storing data tapes at home, you should purchase something with a "diskette" rating rather than a paper rating (vast majority of fireproof safes).

Most fire resistant safes are tested to protect paper only which usually means a maximum internal temperature of 177°C which is too high to protect LTO tapes etc. A diskette rating means an internal temperature below 50°C a humidity controlling internal sealed compartment.

You should look for a product rated to EN 1047 60 P/DIS, NT FIRE 017-60 Diskette, or UL 72 Class 125.

UDP wrote: »

OP, you could buy something like one of these as they are portable if required. Remember many of these types of products are just fireproof for 30-60 minutes - not sure how much help that would be.

These would be no good as it is a UL 30 minute paper test (around 170°C internal temp) which are dubiously advertised as being able to protect paper + CDs. What do you think would happen to a tape at that temperature.

RangeR wrote: »

We have realtime off site replication to disk and nightly tapes. A recent IT Security Audit recommended that a firesafe be used for "at home off site backup". I can't find a safe for under a squillion euro that is rated more then 2 hours.

60 minutes should be adequate and not more than a few hundred Euro.

I work for a company selling these products but I won't plug here unless someone wants details

Capt'n Midnight

Other options

If your daily data doesn't change much and depending on whether it's just a file server then rsync to a second site. Or do a selective differential backup of the most important stuff to file and send that to the second site. ( use no compression and let rsync do it's magic, YMMV )

I'd imagine that hard drives might stand up to heat better than tape ( anyone know ? ) in the sense that a tape will melt long before the platter melts or reaches the Curie temperature , so some possibility of some chance of recovery in a clean room.

Are there any fire proof external HDD enclosures ?


NB. two sites aren't enough. A lot of companies used the other tower as their off site which was grand until 9/11.

RangeR

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Other options

If your daily data doesn't change much and depending on whether it's just a file server then rsync to a second site. Or do a selective differential backup of the most important stuff to file and send that to the second site. ( use no compression and let rsync do it's magic, YMMV )

I'd imagine that hard drives might stand up to heat better than tape ( anyone know ? ) in the sense that a tape will melt long before the platter melts or reaches the Curie temperature , so some possibility of some chance of recovery in a clean room.

Are there any fire proof external HDD enclosures ?


NB. two sites aren't enough. A lot of companies used the other tower as their off site which was grand until 9/11.

We have realtime replication to off site. Off site is in a different county, about 30 Km away. However, that's full replication of adds, modifies and deletes.

I like RSYNC. Might look into that. Currently we are paying an arm and a leg for CA XOSoft. not saying that we don't mind spending the money but it goes against the grain to spend when I don't have to.

I'm currently in the process of minimising the data needed to be backed up. I'm also getting in eFiber. Both of those combined may enable me to backup to the cloud AND the existing off site. Getting rid of those damn tapes, once and for all. All going well, three to four months down the road, I should be golden.

neilmemo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I'd imagine that hard drives might stand up to heat better than tape ( anyone know ? ) in the sense that a tape will melt long before the platter melts or reaches the Curie temperature , so some possibility of some chance of recovery in a clean room.

Yes that's correct. Manufacturers usually advertise 70-80 Celsius for hard drives as max temperature but data has been recovered in tests over 100 degrees. Data tapes, film, LTOs etc should be max 50 degrees as they are super sensitive.

And yes rsync offsite is a more sensible option but many public companies and govt depts prefer LTOs etc for legacy reasons and sometimes big bandwidth costs if there are many daily changes. Also, trusting 3rd parties can be an issue for data protection etc.