Website ransome

Miss OMMC

Hi guys,

Hope this is the right place to post this. Please move if necessary.

A guy i know owns a shop. Said guy knows next to nothing about web design/development but realises the importance of having an online presence so hires a "web designer" to build his site and pays over 2000 for a 6 page informational
Site with a few videos, a small amount of text and no design element whatsoever.

Web designer completely takes the p**s by registering domain name in his own name, giving client no access details to hosting account and is now looking for 500euros for updates to the site which has actually not been updated for 2 years.

The site was also built off a wordpress template which owner of shop no login details to.

This guy is now looking for my help as he knows hes been ripped off and although im not a web dev/designer i know my way around wordpress and can build him a much better site.

Im looking for advice re the best approach in terms of getting this guys web domain tranferred and also the content of the site.

Any help would be appreciated

IRE60

I suggest there is very little you can do there. The domain is registered in his name

Some help here

http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp

Miss OMMC

IRE60 wrote: »

I suggest there is very little you can do there. The domain is registered in his name

Some help here

http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp

Thanks for the info.

If it's a .ie domain, they should be able to reclaim the domain name by saying the person that registered the domain no longer works for the business. They may be asked to verify their bona fides as the legitimate business owner.

See http://www.blacknight.com/transfer-domain.html#c375

If its a .com, they are stuffed - but if there isn't much value accumulated in the current domain, buying a similar domain might be an option.

If the site is a template with no serious mods/extra custom functionality, it's easy to find out what the underlying template is, and buy a license for it. The content can be scraped from the other site and you can pull the rug out from under the cowboy's feet.

PM me if you need more info.

smash

Miss OMMC wrote: »

This guy is now looking for my help as he knows hes been ripped off and although im not a web dev/designer i know my way around wordpress and can build him a much better site.

Im looking for advice re the best approach in terms of getting this guys web domain tranferred and also the content of the site.

6 page? Build a new site yourself and copy the content manually if it's that small. Then as stated, if it's a .ie domain the designer has no right to it. If it's a .com tell your friend to go back through the agreement he signed when the site was built and check the details about domain ownership. If your friend payed the designer for the registration then I believe he can claim the domain if he goes legal as it was registered on his behalf.

IRE60

If its an .ie and the 'designer' has registered a business name and, thus, registered an .ie domain - your goose is cooked. They have every right to the name unfortunately.

smash

IRE60 wrote: »

If its an .ie and the 'designer' has registered a business name and, thus, registered an .ie domain - your goose is cooked. They have every right to the name unfortunately.

Upon registering a .ie you have to say if you're registering it for yourself or a client and supply the CRO number. So it depends what option the designer selected and who's CRO number they used. As I said, if the agreement for the build stated that the designer would register the domain for the client then it's exactly that... for the client!

Miss OMMC

Thanks everyone for the info. its a .com so ive instructed him to purchase the .ie and ill copy the old site content and rebuild it for him.

Kenny Logins

How much traffic does it get? Is the address featured on much printed material? I'd be inclined to re-register a new domain and, as mentioned above, grab the content from the existing site.

I had to rebuild a 30+ page site from Google cache once, when I made a complete mess of it and deleted the backup (Frank Spencer moment). It's not difficult.

IRE60

Miss OMMC wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the info. its a .com so ive instructed him to purchase the .ie and ill copy the old site content and rebuild it for him.

Well - that's good news anyway.

Few thoughts to nail the fact that the .ie is the de facto shop in search terms:

1) Look out for duplicate content between you and the old site. Freshen up the content, make it currently relevant.
2) Register with Google places and get a verification card for the address of the shop - re-doubles the fact that you are the shop owner.
3) Get all the local data on to the site - physical address, phone numbers - hours of opening.
4) tweet - honest (not a massive fan but..) Link back to specials instore/onsite and again tweeting under the shop name to hammer this home.
There's plenty more - but you get the pic.

If there is any trouble in the future with a 'conflict' with the .com you'll be in a better position to win that argument.

C

Miss OMMC

IRE60 wrote: »

Well - that's good news anyway.

Few thoughts to nail the fact that the .ie is the de facto shop in search terms:

1) Look out for duplicate content between you and the old site. Freshen up the content, make it currently relevant.
2) Register with Google places and get a verification card for the address of the shop - re-doubles the fact that you are the shop owner.
3) Get all the local data on to the site - physical address, phone numbers - hours of opening.
4) tweet - honest (not a massive fan but..) Link back to specials instore/onsite and again tweeting under the shop name to hammer this home.
There's plenty more - but you get the pic.

If there is any trouble in the future with a 'conflict' with the .com you'll be in a better position to win that argument.

C

Really appreciate the advice. Thanks again

vedwards

Very helpful thread as I find myself in a similar situation, and come to think of it I bet this will happen more and more in the next few years as business owners look to cut costs, educating themselves as to the black art of web hosting/design/SEO etc or have their kids point out the reality realising that paying excessively to unscrupulous web designers for hosting and domain registering annually is to be questioned.
Anyhooo; we had a state-of-the-art web site developed several years ago which cost our organisation nothing. From the beginning our relationship was turbulent with the designers throwing the bottle from the pram for no reason on several occasions; but I persisted as it was a project I wanted to see out to the end and supplied all textual material. It was agreed that only they could have access and that if we needed something changed, send it via email and the site would be updated.
Since the onset in the popularity of Facebook, I find we rarely send material for updating to the web designers and we pay for our own .ie domain name. Yet we are billed each year around €600 for maintenance and a couple of updates to the one page during the year.
Now I find that others in our business are questioning the fee when hosting costs are around €120 I also find it hard to justify €600p.a.
If we get another web design business to build a new web site what complications am I lightly to encounter?
Sorry for the longwinded reply but I’m trying to give as much info as possible in order to receive an accurate reply.

Most websites are built on content management platforms these days - they make it easy for the end user to edit content. If you get a site developed now, apart from annual domain and hosting charges, you might be charged for software updates and backups.

Backups can be automated with plugins, but they need to be monitored to ensure they are working and backing up all the data. Similarly, CMSs like WordPress make the updates as simple as a couple of clicks - however they can occasionally go wrong. If your web dev does the updates they'll backup the site first, and if the update fails, they'll have the know-how to put it right.

You shouldn't have any other charges, unless you want extra functionality, or want the web dev to do your updates for you. Ask for a contract that outlines deliverables, timelines etc. - it takes the guesswork out of the transaction.

vedwards

Thanks SBS, that's very clear.

I didn't realise where the other charges/costs might be coming from. Though I've acquired a little knowledge (and we know where that can lead...) about web authoring, blogs, etc.. I thought (a) create a web site (b) get it hosted (c) pay the hosting & domain name costs (d) forget...

Again, thanks.

Trojan

vedwards wrote: »

others in our business are questioning the fee when hosting costs are around €120 I also find it hard to justify €600p.a.

€50 per month is a pretty reasonable charge for keeping a site updated (i..e saving you from getting hacked and having your site blocked in Google), and for making content changes, as well as including hosting? It really depends on the details here - it might be a bit unfair to use words like "excessive" and "unscrupulous".

Fanny Cradock

Again, the Devil is in the details, but it's worth pointing out that on top of hosting they designed and developed the site for free. So I'd be reluctant to use words like "unscrupulous" without knowing more. Ideally you should be able to edit your own content (this assumes that your site is built into a CMS) and perhaps this is something you should look into.

vedwards

Thanks Fanny Cradock...Yes, the Devil is in the detail and...

Let me clarify; when I used the term "unscrupulous" it was with the original posters situation, Miss OMMC's, in mind, they certainly appear to be holding the website for ransom. The company I'm dealing with are far from that. They are very professional, it was the ongoing cost that I raised an eyebrow at; but now I'm more enlightened...that's one of the benefits of this forum...getting informed opinion. But I do fear that if I broach the subject of costs with them is it possible that I could find myself in a similar situation...could they just pull down the site?

I'm satisfied from the informative reply from SBS that there's more to what's going on in the background than meets the eye and what's needed is for me to sit down and talk to them about "... a contract that outlines deliverables, timelines etc...[SBS]."

DieselPowered

Miss OMMC wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the info. its a .com so ive instructed him to purchase the .ie and ill copy the old site content and rebuild it for him.

How did you get on with this?

Just curious why you didn't register the .ie for your friend yourself with their details as you are the the techy one


Thanks

The Corinthian

vedwards wrote: »

Very helpful thread as I find myself in a similar situation, and come to think of it I bet this will happen more and more in the next few years as business owners look to cut costs, educating themselves as to the black art of web hosting/design/SEO etc or have their kids point out the reality realising that paying excessively to unscrupulous web designers for hosting and domain registering annually is to be questioned.

In my experience, this sort of scenario takes place when a client engages a Web developer at a 'low' price or even for 'free' at the start.

All they're doing is a loss leader; offer a low up-front price, then charge in the long term - after all, do you really think that anyone can make a living on producing Web sites for €250 or even for free? Ultimately this sales strategy is not limited to Web development, but can be found in pretty much every business, so claiming ignorance of Web development isn't an excuse IMHO.

Some Web developers can indeed take this to "unscrupulous" extremes, however normally it's a perfectly legitimate tool of commerce.