Portugal and drugs

dj jarvis

here is an interesting article on Portugal's "legal" drug regime,

12 years and its working is it's title - light on stats, but work a look for the pro and anti camp.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html

I can see this kind of regime being introduced here in the future, but could only work if the state supplied the drugs - totally kill the dealer , make the drugs so clean and with street prices, and the dealers would be out of business - probably saving a fortune in enforcement.

so , what is your opinion ?

lkionm

Careful now.

Odysseus

dj jarvis wrote: »

here is an interesting article on Portugal's "legal" drug regime,

12 years and its working is it's title - light on stats, but work a look for the pro and anti camp.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html

I can see this kind of regime being introduced here in the future, but could only work if the state supplied the drugs - totally kill the dealer , make the drugs so clean and with street prices, and the dealers would be out of business - probably saving a fortune in enforcement.

so , what is your opinion ?

Sadly we are years away from such a thing happening. I reckon I will be retired before it happens if it ever happens over here. I have 20 years left, but the will and the support for it is not there yet.

When it comes to addiction treatment we still have a lot to learn, and sadly people will die because of it.

Just look at any thread here that deals with addicts, people see them as almost subhuman, it is terrible. People are very ignorant when it comes to addiction.

Drugs are bad for people, we need to protect people from themselves.

lkionm

Deleted User wrote: »

Drugs are bad for people, we need to protect people from themselves.

Just stay away from yerselves lads.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Drugs are bad for people, we need to protect people from themselves.

No, people should be allowed to choose for themselves.



There, are we done?

Logical_Bear

Deleted User wrote: »

There, are we done?

Hopefully you are

Chuck Stone

Deleted User wrote: »

Drugs are bad for people, we need to protect people from themselves.

By giving them criminal records and throwing them in jail?

Grayson

Chuck Stone wrote: »

By giving them criminal records and throwing them in jail?

We could just pay drug dealers to stop dealing. Seriously, we throw so much money at the problem, why not just turn the dealers into millionaires. What could possibly go wrong.

JimmyCrackCorn

Deleted User wrote: »

No, people should be allowed to choose for themselves.



There, are we done?

You cant protect people from themselves. You can jail them, add take everything from them. Make them homeless.
If they are hooked on a drug nothing else is as important or close to the importance of the drug.


Where I will say it may help is discouraging the experimenters until it appears at a party somewhere.

UCDVet

Grayson wrote: »

We could just pay drug dealers to stop dealing. Seriously, we throw so much money at the problem, why not just turn the dealers into millionaires. What could possibly go wrong.

Supply and demand.

Pay dealers not to deal and you reduce the supply. Less supply means more demand. More demand means higher prices. Higher prices means more incentive for someone to step in and start selling drugs.

Also, generally speaking, people who break the law and sell drugs aren't the most trustworthy. You could pay me not to sell drugs - but I'd probably just take your money *and* sell drugs. If you have a government agency be responsible for the destruction of the drugs they buy from me, it won't be long before they 'forget' to destroy it all.

Rastadoyle

legalise it all then theres no crime

Chuck Stone

Grayson wrote: »

We could just pay drug dealers to stop dealing. Seriously, we throw so much money at the problem, why not just turn the dealers into millionaires. What could possibly go wrong.

I'm going to answer this as if it's serious even though I find it difficult to believe anyone could hold such a ridiculous view.

It's demand that's the problem not supply. Relax drug laws (decriminalise possession and legalise weed to start) and spend the money on treating addicts.

RDM_83 again

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm going to answer this as if it's serious even though I find it difficult to believe anyone could hold such a ridiculous view.

It's demand that's the problem not supply. Relax drug laws (decriminalise possession and legalise weed to start) and spend the money on treating addicts.

I don;t know about that, there's this idea that there's always been hard drugs available and people using them (true for small numbers but not like the numbers today), availability has definitely got something to do with it talk to lads from some of the smaller towns and you'l hear about how heroin has boomed in the last few years and I don't think its simply because people in the midlands suddenly decided "you know I think I'l try some gear today"

fasttalkerchat

Rastadoyle wrote: »

legalise it all then theres no crime

What about connected crimes?

Grayson

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm going to answer this as if it's serious even though I find it difficult to believe anyone could hold such a ridiculous view.

It's demand that's the problem not supply. Relax drug laws (decriminalise possession and legalise weed to start) and spend the money on treating addicts.

There isn't a sarcastic smiley here... Oh wait there is one. ****. never mind

AngryHippie

Some things that are bad for people:

1. Fast Food
2. Cigarettes
3. Alcohol
4. Excessive Masturbation
5. Speeding (Automobiles)
6. Excessive Sunlight
7. Exhaust emissions
8. Soft Drinks (to excess)
9. Bee stings
10. Jellyfish
11. cold
12. Wet (especially when cold)
13. unemployment
14. illiteracy
15. Guns
16. Drugs

Most of the items on that list are things the gubberment are more than happy to draft legislation for(Exhaust emissions, speeding, Guns), Some things on the list, they are incapable of tackling (unemployment, Bee stings, Jellyfish) and some they are unwilling to tackle (Drugs, soft drinks, Alcohol, fast food)
Some are just non of their fcuking business. In that category, personally I would place drugs, excessive maturbation and excessive sunlight(no fear in the wet patch)

For some reason, they are happy to allow major multinational companies to flog sh!te food and diabetes inducing drinks deliberately targeting minors, meanwhile an individual can't even partake in smoking what has been widely accepted as a less harmful and addictive substance than the tobacco that is readily available without attracting the wrath of the long arm of the law.

Priorities are ar$eways, and there are so many ignorant people getting to have their say on it that it will never change.
By ignorant people I mean the drugs bad bleaters that come out with the same old story about gateway drugs and paranoia and psychosis without ever having
a) tried it for themselves
b) engaged anybody who has with an open mind
c) examined whether their own complete lack of experience entitles them to bleat out the same line they were fed in primary school....

RDM_83 again

Seriously you think that you have to try something to know its got negative effects?
Also its completely different tackling things like smoking and drinking as they were already established within official commerce, I'm having a smoke and a glass of wine at the minute, both of these things I am quite strongly discouraged from using by having massive tax charges on them.

Red Crow

The problem is with state provided drugs is that you have to be able to police it's distribution. I'd imagine that more teenagers aged between15-18 smoke weed than anybody else. The problem with that is that the biggest category of users are automatically wiped out as its have to be at least 18 & over only. Another problem is that we're Irish. We can't drink responsibly in comparison to Portugal or Spain and we live in a Nanny state that even if drugs were just decriminalised we'd still penalise the users through society by other means.

Decriminalisation only really benefits the adult smoker. It does nothing to tackle any other demographic of underage smoker.

Also we can't manage our country effectively. Don't expect us to take the lead in anything.

Ruudi_Mentari

My friend has some pure peruvian, make you do the fandango hey tha's him on the phone now:

"hello, Figo?"

tdv123

The only solution to drugs & junkies is get used to them. There here to stay legal or illegal.

Giblet

The streets of Lisbon still has drug dealers hassling people, usually tourists. It doesn't get rid of dealers at all, they just change their targets with their inferior product.

conorhal

Giblet wrote: »

The streets of Lisbon still has drug dealers hassling people, usually tourists. It doesn't get rid of dealers at all, they just change their targets with their inferior product.

Yeah, what's with that? You litterally can't walk down the Avenida da Liberdade (the main tourist St. in Lisbon, kind of a combination of their O'Connell St. and Grafton St.) without some shady fecker trying to sell you something that looks like a black crayon, every 50 feet or so. If you go the legalization route you need to keep it off the streets or confine it to a particular area, Lisbon is flooded with dealers and it's uncomfortable at best and slightly threatening at worst.

Snake Pliisken

Giblet wrote: »

The streets of Lisbon still has drug dealers hassling people, usually tourists. It doesn't get rid of dealers at all, they just change their targets with their inferior product.

You're not a very good drug dealer if you're hassling people; if you mean that there are still people offering to sell drugs to people on the street, well of course there is, it's a western country that's still pushing the sale of drugs into the hands of the black market. Where else are they going to sell their illegal drugs?

The plain truth of it is drugs are here to stay whether they're being managed by the government or not. If you want drug dealers off the streets make it economically unviable to sell black market drugs by regulating distribution and offering cleaner drugs at better prices.

Decriminalization has shown itself to be one of the less worse systems though, with clear benefits over our current system.

Five years in:
Illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined.
Rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped.
The number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

Over ten years:
A drastic reduction in addicts.
Drug usage rates are now among the lowest of EU member states.
Drug related diseases including STDs and overdoses have been reduced even more than usage rates.
And things are only getting better.

---

Criminalization turns drugs into a festering wound that no one wants to talk about, we just keep complaining about the pain and wiping away the weeping cheese expecting it to heal... It's stupidity.

People who become addicted to hard drugs by and large come from the worst parts of our country, have the worst educations and the saddest upbringings. When people who are against legalisation talk about drug users, they usually point at junkies; maybe the above factors have more to do these walking wrecks than they'd like to admit?
The environment these people grew up in breeds the ignorance that leads them to taking hard drugs; how are they supposed to make coherent decisions about their lives when they haven't been given the tools to do so?

wicklowstevo

its a good system but where does the drugs that are brought come from ,,,,
who profits from them

cant see it happening in ireland for a long long time , mabey the licencing of a couple of plants each , theres a few countries that do that

The_B_Man

AngryHippie wrote: »

Some things that are bad for people:

1. Fast Food
2. Cigarettes
3. Alcohol
4. Excessive Masturbation
5. Speeding (Automobiles)
6. Excessive Sunlight
7. Exhaust emissions
8. Soft Drinks (to excess)
9. Bee stings
10. Jellyfish
11. cold
12. Wet (especially when cold)
13. unemployment
14. illiteracy
15. Guns
16. Drugs

Source????

Temptamperu

The_B_Man wrote: »

Source????

That brazillian lad died after 42 ****. It never said who counted.

tdv123

Temptamperu wrote: »

That brazillian lad died after 42 ****. It never said who counted.

But hadn't his genitalia already been tampered with prior the ****?

COYVB

Deleted User wrote: »

Drugs are bad for people, we need to protect people from themselves.

Knives, fast food, rocks, sticks, aerosols, petrol, fire and plenty of other things are bad for people too. Where's the banning of those?

Phoebas

COYVB wrote: »

Knives, fast food, rocks, sticks, aerosols, petrol, fire and plenty of other things are bad for people too. Where's the banning of those?

There are restrictions on many of those things.

Nabber

What country produces the drugs legally? or do Portugal go direct to Columbian drug lords?

Grayson

Phoebas wrote: »

There are restrictions on many of those things.

Whivh ones? Except for only being able to buy petrol in a special can I can't think of any. If rocks were restricked, the west of ireland would be fecked.

Phoebas

Grayson wrote: »

Whivh ones? Except for only being able to buy petrol in a special can I can't think of any. If rocks were restricked, the west of ireland would be fecked.

There are age limit restrictions on the sale of knives, also restrictions on the sale of petrol. There are rafts and rafts of fire prevention legislation.

If you pick up a rock and fire it down Grafton St, you'll find out about the restrictions on the dangerous use of rocks.

Miprocin

Nabber wrote: »

What country produces the drugs legally? or do Portugal go direct to Columbian drug lords?

Drugs are illegal in Portugal. Possession of small quantities is simply not treated as a criminal matter. It is illegal to possess large quantities and to sell them so they are still imported by criminal gangs through established trade routes.

wicklowstevo

so really hey havent dont much except chosen to ignore the problem......
reduce the pressure on policing drugs mahap still a worthy experiment

tdv123

wicklowstevo wrote: »

so really hey havent dont much except chosen to ignore the problem......
reduce the pressure on policing drugs mahap still a worthy experiment

Could you repeat these parts when sober please?

I don't think anybody with a grasp of the English language could fully understand what you said.

suicide_circus

Odysseus wrote: »

Just look at any thread here that deals with addicts, people see them as almost subhuman, it is terrible. People are very ignorant when it comes to addiction.

its not the addiction that people object to, it's the intimidation, anti social behavior and public disorder that some addicts engage in. I personally know addicts who do not inflict themselves on the general population and keep to themselves without theft or syringe stabbings.
Also, there are plenty of scum around with no addiction issues.

wicklowstevo

tdv123 wrote: »

Could you repeat these parts when sober please?

I don't think anybody with a grasp of the English language could fully understand what you said.

I am quite sure most people got the broad outlines of my point.
you try typing on a microsoft phone.......

Celly Smunt

Does anybody know where i could get some of that blue stuff?

Odysseus

suicide_circus wrote: »

its not the addiction that people object to, it's the intimidation, anti social behavior and public disorder that some addicts engage in. I personally know addicts who do not inflict themselves on the general population and keep to themselves without theft or syringe stabbings.
Also, there are plenty of scum around with no addiction issues.

Of course anti-social behaviour is anti-social and it should be addressed. However, that's not the type of post I'm referring to.

As you note having an addiction does not mean you will engage in such activities; however, the type of post I'm referring to are the ones that suggest we should locked them all up as it is totally self-inflicted; as again you note that they are plenty of people engaging in such behaviour and they are not addicts.

That such people are indeed sub-human and are not worthy of any type of care. No one condones violent of anti-social behaviour, however, writing people off as "junkie scum" does nothing to address the problem.