How do you know what's real and what's counterfeit?

GobblyNob

I've seen so many different models of "Vision" clearomizers, yet they all claim to be vision. Which one is the real one?

Also, I just bought a replacement coil for the Kanger Evod. It doesn't have the Ohm stamped on it, it just looks like this:



But I've also seen these ones around, with the Ohm stamped on it:



So... where the **** can I get "real" Kanger products? As it seems there are already pirate copies of this thing out!

There are even two different types of evod tanks, one with BCC written on it and the other is just blank.

Here's the one with writing:



The ones on my online vape shop have no writing.

Any idea who sells the "real" Kanger Evod? I've seen videos of the Kanger factory before and it looks fairly clean and high-tech. I would prefer to be vaping stuff from them rather than some ****ty chinese sweat shop.

Thanks:)

StickyIcky

Write to the shop and ask.

I got my evod from esmokeireland, it was the real deal.

GobblyNob

StickyIcky wrote: »

Write to the shop and ask.

I got my evod from esmokeireland, it was the real deal.

I also got it from esmokeireland.

How can you tell it's the real deal?

StickyIcky

GobblyNob wrote: »

I also got it from esmokeireland.

How can you tell it's the real deal?

Because your a dork like me and you hear about and read about them here and in other forums, because you look at various shops and you see the differences and you just kinda work it out for yourself.

I guess there's no way of 100% knowing I guess, I mean you can do your research, know your products and the market and then buy based on what you know.

That's why I'll generally said ask the shop.

Kanger I'm almost certain is made by KangerTech. You can check on their website which I kindly found for you.

http://www.szkanger.com/productshow.asp?bid=32&pid=14

here's an image of what I believe is a knock off evod. It's made by another company that appears to copy products and make ones that are almost totally identical. Like if it wasn't for the big CAPITAL lettering you probably wouldn't know.

http://www.e-brumair.com/162-516-thickbox/clearomiseur-kanger-evod-.jpg

I could be wrong but I think that's a knock off... I'm not sure though.

StickyIcky

For example this site has a picture of one of the 'knock off' ones and says its KangerTech. So either they're misleading or KangerTech products variations of their EVOD with and without lettering/markings.

http://www.litecigusa.net/Kangertech_EVOD_Clearomizer_p/kanger-evod.htm

StickyIcky

and here's another site that shows a box with the KangerTech logo on the box with that big CAPITAL writing on it, so looks like I was intially wrong and they do produce two variations, one with writing like "e-Vod" and another with "EVOD"

http://www.heaven-gifts.com/product-586.html

However you never know, those chinese copy cats are pretty crafty. Anything could be a knock off really, you never know for certain.

StickyIcky

also if here's a bit more information on "fake gate"
http://www.sun-vapers.com/kanger-gate-guys-they-are-both-kanger-made-neither-are-fakes/

If you don't want to read it / too lazy :

Factories make different 'revisions' of their products over time. Perhaps they'll release a product, realise it sells really well, tweak the product to be a little better/different, then release another version/revision of it. They won't make it clear to the sellers probably half the time what revision they're getting I'm guessing, by the looks of the article above.

mrplop

No fake Evods around presently.
Some Evods have markings, some don't.

GobblyNob

mrplop wrote: »

No fake Evods around presently.
Some Evods have markings, some don't.

Here's a list of about eleventy million factories producing the "Kanger" evod.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=evod

Mr. Chrome

GobblyNob wrote: »

Here's a list of about eleventy million factories producing the "Kanger" evod.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=evod

Yeah, but there only suppliers, not manufacturers, Im sure there is a few knock offs but I doubt very much they reach our shores.
I wondered about the markings too when I got mine cause I saw utube vids with the markings, but as already said, different batches.

was.deevey

Yeah, but there only suppliers, not manufacturers, Im sure there is a few knock offs but I doubt very much they reach our shores.

No they aren't just suppliers, there are literally hundreds of manufacturers making knockoffs of just about every new tank/cart/battery that comes out new on the market, in some cases even down to the product packaging. I'm pretty sure knockoffs have hit every shore TBH.

In very few cases there is a licensing agreement between factories, but in the majority of cases its knockoffs or knockoffs of knockoffs, the laws are very different in china and trying to prove "who did what first" its just not worthwhile to pursue.

Some of knockoffs are made up of extra part runs by the official suppliers of assembly factories. In many cases bits that went together from certain manufacturers as designed get pieced with ones from a completely different one and results in a sub-par product.. e.g. a Vision tank made up of parts from x+x+x supplier, instead gets made up of parts from x+y+z ... it'll look the same and most of the time everything fits to a tolerable level but failure rate goes up immensely.

Adding markings does add an extra cost to the manufacturing, as someone extra has to be employed to operate the laser engraver full time (its not done automatically in any ecig factory I visited)

Just as an example http://pyxled.en.alibaba.com is a factory thats listed in the Alibaba link above.

mrplop

There are no fake Evods about right at the moment - seriously.
I'm not saying there won't be in the future though.

Mr. Chrome

was.deevey wrote: »

No they aren't just suppliers, there are literally hundreds of manufacturers making knockoffs of just about every new tank/cart/battery that comes out new on the market, in some cases even down to the product packaging. I'm pretty sure knockoffs have hit every shore TBH.

In very few cases there is a licensing agreement between factories, but in the majority of cases its knockoffs or knockoffs of knockoffs, the laws are very different in china and trying to prove "who did what first" its just not worthwhile to pursue.

Some of knockoffs are made up of extra part runs by the official suppliers of assembly factories. In many cases bits that went together from certain manufacturers as designed get pieced with ones from a completely different one and results in a sub-par product.. e.g. a Vision tank made up of parts from x+x+x supplier, instead gets made up of parts from x+y+z ... it'll look the same and most of the time everything fits to a tolerable level but failure rate goes up immensely.

Adding markings does add an extra cost to the manufacturing, as someone extra has to be employed to operate the laser engraver full time (its not done automatically in any ecig factory I visited)

Just as an example http://pyxled.en.alibaba.com is a factory thats listed in the Alibaba link above.

I agree with everything you say but I honestly think that the main vendors in Ireland do their research before they buy.
It wouldnt be in their interest to be knowingly selling knockoffs.
If you look at the TBS site he states if a product is genuine or not.
And I say 'main' vendors because I have bought juice from a very small vendor here and it was pure p*ss!

platinums

Even the Evic is made in Shengzen. How on earth do you differentiate that, from a Shengzen knock off company ( Build quality aside)

wingnut32

was.deevey wrote: »

No they aren't just suppliers, there are literally hundreds of manufacturers making knockoffs of just about every new tank/cart/battery that comes out new on the market, in some cases even down to the product packaging. I'm pretty sure knockoffs have hit every shore TBH.

In very few cases there is a licensing agreement between factories, but in the majority of cases its knockoffs or knockoffs of knockoffs, the laws are very different in china and trying to prove "who did what first" its just not worthwhile to pursue.

Some of knockoffs are made up of extra part runs by the official suppliers of assembly factories. In many cases bits that went together from certain manufacturers as designed get pieced with ones from a completely different one and results in a sub-par product.. e.g. a Vision tank made up of parts from x+x+x supplier, instead gets made up of parts from x+y+z ... it'll look the same and most of the time everything fits to a tolerable level but failure rate goes up immensely.

Adding markings does add an extra cost to the manufacturing, as someone extra has to be employed to operate the laser engraver full time (its not done automatically in any ecig factory I visited)

Just as an example http://pyxled.en.alibaba.com is a factory thats listed in the Alibaba link above.

I can agree with you on this, its a minefield out there. In my experience its a whole lot easier sourcing the real deal rather than suffering the fallout that comes with knockoff's. The flip side of this is that even the genuine products are prone to the odd 'dud' which can add an element of confusion to someone new to vaping!

was.deevey

I agree with everything you say but I honestly think that the main vendors in Ireland do their research before they buy.

You would think that most retailers do their research. From the places I visited, it seemed a pretty rare occasion that they got a western guest across to give them a bollicking that their batches were not up to scratch, maybe its changed now. But when you are just ordering a few hundred tanks @ maybe 2 euro each its can't worth the airfare to try before you buy. Unless they are coming from kanger direct its a hard one to police, even morso if you use an agent as a middleman who is doing the groundwork for you over there. If he can get knockoffs @ 1/2 the price and skims a few $ off the top with a few fake documents he probably will.

The thing about China though is "what exactly constitutes a knockoff ?"

Kangers own Factory is located in Shenzhen as well, so no doubt there is probably 100's of other factories making sub-standard Kanger tanks and most likely using parts from the same suppliers as Kanger themselves, right under the noses of them - can you imagine that happening anywhere else

Mr. Chrome

Yeah, but by research I mean getting a sample product, testing it and then making a larger order.

Rattleshakes

wingnut32 wrote: »

The flip side of this is that even the genuine products are prone to the odd 'dud' which can add an element of confusion to someone new to vaping!

For me this is a really important point.I've had the experience of buying
a clearomizer or cartomizer and being happy with the product
only to then go and buy a packet of each and be given either duds or sub-par products.
Its beyond a fuking joke at this stage :mad:

Ok,so you've made up your mind to buy a Vivi Nova.
Either its a pile of old cack from the start or after vaping away happily you decide to get some
replacement heads and they end up being cack.

Is there an answer?Would regulation help?whats with all the cacks?:eek:


How to spot a fake CE4-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyGsggsVLTE

mrplop

You'll find most vendors here use particular wholesalers for all their Chinese goods.
If you use a reputable wholesaler then you know you're getting the genuine article.

was.deevey

Yeah, but by research I mean getting a sample product, testing it and then making a larger order.

That was the reason that I was sent to Shenzhen to visit a few Ecig factories as the orders the owner placed were not up to the spec of the samples that were originally sent. They gave a discount on the product ok after it arrived. However his customers were not happy whatsoever.

This was in the case of Batteries and Carto's BTW - first order was reasonably ok, the repeat order had different number of holes in the batteries (too airy draw), third batch used a different filler which burned badly etc etc .. Product consistency was thrown out the window depending on whatever type of Connectors, LED's, Carto Screw bases their supplier had in stock and they would simply call it "an upgrade" - "oops sorry, all your existing customers batteries are now useless due to our "upgraded" carts" that we send you

Is there an answer?Would regulation help?

In the case of Pre-filled Cartomizers I think regulation is very much needed. After watching how they are made, how the materials are in some cases stored, and how many hands on a production line a single carto passes through I never wanted one to touch my lips ever again.

In the case of rebuildable/replaceable head clearo's and blank cartos, I honestly don't think regulation is a necessity so long as everyone realizes you get what you pay for.

However like the Cartomizers, I'd really recommend you boil the heads and tanks throughly before use.

A class A+ counterfeit is still a fine vape and will cost almost the same and will have few if any differences in shape, vape or fitments.

jamie72

I bought three kanger T2 heads from a company that is currently on the front page of this forum. All of them where horrible, sickening duds. Managed to get some money together and ordered some from e-smokeireland.eu. I'm only on the first of five, but it is ****ing fantastic.

I'm wondering if people who try vaping and can't stand it, are actually buying from these 'shops'.

GobblyNob

I also bought a "Vision" V3 from one of the Irish stores listed here and it was utter ****e. The genuine vision coils I had lying around the house wouldn't fit into it. Could we make a list of vendors who definitely 100% sell genuine Kanger/Vision products?

Rattleshakes

GobblyNob wrote: »

I also bought a "Vision" V3 from one of the Irish stores listed here and it was utter ****e. The genuine vision coils I had lying around the house wouldn't fit into it. Could we make a list of vendors who definitely 100% sell genuine Kanger/Vision products?

This is where the problem lies.You're not necessarily receiving counterfeit goods but a sub-standard genuine product.Manufacturers have been known to produce clones of their original product and sell it at a reduced price because its inferior.I have "genuine" Visions,Skangers:D,Boges etc and a lot of them suck massive balls!

So who is buying these clones?

I do believe the majority of vendors here in Ireland buy in good faith,but their hands are pretty much tied.Imagine having to deal with qc issues,clones and on top of that counterfeits?

Having said that,if these low standards are accepted,they will be maintained.

Its a real shame because when these products do work,they work very well.