Biogas

notsobusy

Does anyone have any up to date info on this? Myself and my partner who is the farmer are extremely interested in finding out more about this. I have sent emails to various companies but no response so far.

Ideally we would be looking to set up a small biogas station here on the farm and basically run the farm from it.

severeoversteer

would also like to know more about this in ireland, they are really up to speed in it up the north and in england, they are also way ahead with renewable energy in general, they had a scheme that farmers got new sheds for free just to have photo voltaic panels on the roofs of them. green energy isint all about windmills.;)

darragh_haven

I was involved with a company building biogas plants. Now, I do some work on the side for them. They are about 5 agriculture based biogas plants up and running in northern Ireland, but they are all around 500kw plants and have a very high rate for the sale of their electricity.
We in the republic of Ireland only get paid about half that of northern Ireland, so its not viable here. Small scale biogas is a non runner too as there is no incentive for them.

bob charles

darragh_haven wrote: »

I was involved with a company building biogas plants. Now, I do some work on the side for them. They are about 5 agriculture based biogas plants up and running in northern Ireland, but they are all around 500kw plants and have a very high rate for the sale of their electricity.
We in the republic of Ireland only get paid about half that of northern Ireland, so its not viable here. Small scale biogas is a non runner too as there is no incentive for them.

as Daragh says until there is government policy :rolleyes: shift the figures just dont stack up. Maybe if you are very close to a town or able to sell leccie into a community project as I understand the tarriff is larger, or use allot of leccie yourself for something or other, or your able to charge a decent gate fee you aint up to much. On saying that I know of 2 locally in the pipeline, one at an advanced stage and the other in the planning and also local to one that is up and running

yellow50HX

darragh_haven wrote: »

I was involved with a company building biogas plants. Now, I do some work on the side for them. They are about 5 agriculture based biogas plants up and running in northern Ireland, but they are all around 500kw plants and have a very high rate for the sale of their electricity.
We in the republic of Ireland only get paid about half that of northern Ireland, so its not viable here. Small scale biogas is a non runner too as there is no incentive for them.

yeah we are way behind the rest of europe on these things and when you condiser how depenendant on importing oil you'd think it would be a no brainer, but one only looks at the quality of policitan we have in this country to see why this wount be happening any time soon.

was in germany a few years ago and noticed all the sheds had huge solar panels on them when i was flying into munich. there was a very intresting article in the jouro a it a few months later. basislly the local goverment give out set tarrifs to use on site waste and silage to dive biogas plants. also the solar panels provided electrial power to the grid as well. some farmers were reducign cows numbers and planting more maize and to drive the plant and using the slurry and mixer. big inaital outlay but plants paid for them selves. the hot water wa sthen used for heating the farm house, sheds and nearby homes, or reclcyed to produce more electricy. the spent waste was land spread and reduced teh need for extra chemical fertilzer. would love to go over and a closer look of the set-up they have.

notsobusy

Ideally we are looking at running the farm and the house from it. We have a high enough electricity bill as OH is a dairy farmer.

I rang SEAI this morning and had a great chat with a girl about it there. She is going to get their engineers to ring me and talk to me about the technology and costs. At the moment there is no funding for things like this as their funding has been cut. It seems ridiculous that things like renewable energy gets their funding cut!!!

reilig

notsobusy wrote: »

Ideally we are looking at running the farm and the house from it. We have a high enough electricity bill as OH is a dairy farmer.

I rang SEAI this morning and had a great chat with a girl about it there. She is going to get their engineers to ring me and talk to me about the technology and costs. At the moment there is no funding for things like this as their funding has been cut. It seems ridiculous that things like renewable energy gets their funding cut!!!

You're talking about costs of up to €2.5 million for a 500 KW plant.
You have to be able to feed it on the right stuff in the right quantities. Maze, slurry, grass, household food waste etc.

The cost of building one for domestic use would never repay itself at today's electricity prices - infact, at twice today's prices you are looking at a payback period of far greater than the lifespan of the digestor.

Waste licenses are another issue.

You also need to be able to dispose of the waste produced by the Digestor - It doesn't just eat it unfortunately.

It was discussed here before:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056505830

Tipp Man

From the very little bit i have read on them they are a complete non runner (financially at least) in this country.

for the time being anyway

yellow50HX

i actully looking into doing this when i was in college as part of my degree. wasnt able to get the support to do it as it was differetn to my degree program. heard afterward a lad dong mech eng actully did one usign and old coratine car engine that had been modifed for LPG. hooked the engine up to a eletrical genterator and heating system for the house. it actuuly worked quite well but not at a large enough scale for supply to the grid or for conatant supply. last i heard he has it powering the farm buildings and a small office and work shop and has a tie into the house. Its basically generator and home heating plant.

notsobusy

From the few people I have spoken to this morning it does seem like a non runner unfortunately but I will keep plugging away and maybe one day the Government will change it's policies!

reilig

notsobusy wrote: »

From the few people I have spoken to this morning it does seem like a non runner unfortunately but I will keep plugging away and maybe one day the Government will change it's policies!

That's the spirit.

If you want change in this country, you have to lead it!
I think there is huge potential for digestors in this country - especially with the new ruling on household bins that doesn't allow any food waste into them at all.

In County Monaghan, Ballybay development Company did a lot of work on trying to set one up. Their's was a pilot project/study and they will gladly answer any questions that you may have. They still don't have their digestor though.

49801

notsobusy wrote: »

At the moment there is no funding for things like this as their funding has been cut. It seems ridiculous that things like renewable energy gets their funding cut!!!

Why exactly do you expect to get considerable funding from tax payers money so that you get to have near free electricity for your homestead and business?

What will be the benefit to the state (me) in part funding your project?
Are you going to create green energy for a population at a competitive rate?
Are you disposing of a waste material that is expensive/environmentally sensitive to dispose of in other ways and creating electricity at the same time? Thus creating a net gain.

just in case that comes across as being difficult or abrasive... I am not.
I just want to know what is in it for me the taxpayer?
I do believe there is some potential from biogas!

yellow50HX

49801 wrote: »

Why exactly do you expect to get considerable funding from tax payers money so that you get to have near free electricity for your homestead and business?

What will be the benefit to the state (me) in part funding your project?
Are you going to create green energy for a population at a competitive rate?
Are you disposing of a waste material that is expensive/environmentally sensitive to dispose of in other ways and creating electricity at the same time? Thus creating a net gain.

just in case that comes across as being difficult or abrasive... I am not.
I just want to know what is in it for me the taxpayer?
I do believe there is some potential from biogas!

it would be the same as allowing a wind farm on your land. once the facility is large enough to create a surplus of supply for general consumption at a price that is lower then alternative supplier (oil from the gulf) then the constumer will have lower costs to pay. there are several companies that have their own internal power genration that can supply excess to the grid. I rememeber dairygold were able to do so from one of their plants, dotn know if they still do.

reilig

49801 wrote: »

Why exactly do you expect to get considerable funding from tax payers money so that you get to have near free electricity for your homestead and business?

What will be the benefit to the state (me) in part funding your project?
Are you going to create green energy for a population at a competitive rate?
Are you disposing of a waste material that is expensive/environmentally sensitive to dispose of in other ways and creating electricity at the same time? Thus creating a net gain.

just in case that comes across as being difficult or abrasive... I am not.
I just want to know what is in it for me the taxpayer?
I do believe there is some potential from biogas!

I think that the biggest return to the tax payer on any renewable project like this are the carbon credits. If we can build up more credits than we can use, then we, as a country can sell them off to countries with higher carbon emissions. The minimum that something like this can save is the cost of carbon fines that we would have to pay if we crossed our carbon credit allowance by producing electricity with non renewables.

While a project like this may look like it is costing the taxpayer a lot of money, in reality, it is saving the taxpayer money in the short term and possibly creating a stream of income for the whole country in the long term which surpasses the extra cost to the tax payer for such a project in the long term.

It also benefits the environment.

49801

yellow50HX wrote: »

it would be the same as allowing a wind farm on your land. once the facility is large enough to create a surplus of supply for general consumption at a price that is lower then alternative supplier (oil from the gulf) then the constumer will have lower costs to pay. there are several companies that have their own internal power genration that can supply excess to the grid. I rememeber dairygold were able to do so from one of their plants, dotn know if they still do.

yes but the scenario here is the OP is looking for funding to supply themselves only.

Different altogether if OP was looking to commercially supply.

darragh_haven

yellow50HX wrote: »

yeah we are way behind the rest of europe on these things and when you condiser how depenendant on importing oil you'd think it would be a no brainer, but one only looks at the quality of policitan we have in this country to see why this wount be happening any time soon.

was in germany a few years ago and noticed all the sheds had huge solar panels on them when i was flying into munich. there was a very intresting article in the jouro a it a few months later. basislly the local goverment give out set tarrifs to use on site waste and silage to dive biogas plants. also the solar panels provided electrial power to the grid as well. some farmers were reducign cows numbers and planting more maize and to drive the plant and using the slurry and mixer. big inaital outlay but plants paid for them selves. the hot water wa sthen used for heating the farm house, sheds and nearby homes, or reclcyed to produce more electricy. the spent waste was land spread and reduced teh need for extra chemical fertilzer. would love to go over and a closer look of the set-up they have.

If your looking for a plant up and running, there are 3 agriculture based plant in northern Ireland up and running at full capacity. And they are from 3 different companies. (If anyone is very interest, a walk around could be organised)
It is claimed that the end product from a year's operation is capable of growing over 80% of the next crop, but if the plant takes in waste, you'd be opening a whole can of worms that may make an agricultural plant non-viable
Going back to the original question from the OP, a small scale biogas operation (say 40 to 60) would require more cost to run that the value of the electricity produced.

Each time I see one running in Northern Ireland, it make me sad (everyone....... Aaawwwwhhhh)

EpicPothole

I've got involved in supplying silage on a contract basis to an AD near to me. I've sold off most of the cattle towards the end of last year. It seems like a win win. For the suppliers, me, I get a constant and regular payment and the operator has a constant feed supply. 2 other part time farmes are also supplying. The plant is on the border between Derry and Antrim.
Even up here, there is the viability of small scall biogas plants (anything under 150kw)

darragh_haven

Hi epicpothole, is that the plant in toome that you'll be supplying.

notsobusy

EpicPothole wrote: »

I've got involved in supplying silage on a contract basis to an AD near to me. I've sold off most of the cattle towards the end of last year. It seems like a win win. For the suppliers, me, I get a constant and regular payment and the operator has a constant feed supply. 2 other part time farmes are also supplying. The plant is on the border between Derry and Antrim.
Even up here, there is the viability of small scall biogas plants (anything under 150kw)

You see that's the problem, it works in the North but not in the South not yet anyway.

I thought it would be easier/cheaper to supply ourselves but as it turns out it is only viable with the bigger plant so therefore I would be hopefully supplying electricity to the grid and as reilig pointed out it's better for the enviroment and make power cheaper for everyone else around me. I would prefer to make it a commercial business in the long term.