Anyone use Greenbelt or other forestry service?

FarmerSmith

My father owns 37 acres of land jointly with his sister. It's pretty rubbish grazing land and is currently rented for €500 per year. However my father (and aunt) have suddenly gotten worried about the guy renting claiming squatters rights (not sure why) and are thinking about planting it instead.

My father and aunt are both in their 80s so not in a position to do anything physical themselves. I'm 5 months pregnant and DH works in software development so not in a position to help physically OR mentally. By mentally, I mean I don't want to have to be getting involved in applying for grants etc.

I'm looking at companies who will do it all really. We're in the Southwest. Any opinions?

bouli73

found greenbelt to be professional. No diffcuilty with them so far and land is planted almost three years.

Forestry seems like a good fix in your circumstances. low mainteance, good return over 20yrs, good return long term. Particularly if the land is marginal

lucky john

I used Greenbelt to plant a bit for me 7 years. no problem with them at all. 97..98% of tree planted grew so I'm happy. They are around for a long time now and have other services on offer later in the forestry life.

37 acres at €500/annum. is that right? If its not worth more than that you would want advice from teagac or someone as to its suitability for even forestry.

FarmerSmith

Thanks guys.

Obviously this is dependent on the land being suitable. The man currently renting it is taking advantage a bit with the €500 but my father is willing to think the best of everyone. A lot of the land in the same area is planted currently and my father did use the farm for grazing previously.

The plot was valued last year after the death of my uncle and the total value is €120,000.

I would imagine greenbelt would let us know if the land wasn't suitable?

Rovi

I've been with Greenbelt for 13 years now, and they've done 3 plantings for me at this stage.
I'm very happy with the service.

There are a handful of other forestry companies out there who are equally well established and regarded, so don't discount investigating them either.


There ARE a few farmers/landowners out there who are competent/qualified enough to do it all themselves, but for all the rest of us, engaging a good forestry management company is well worth forgoing the establishment grants.
There's a LOT of paperwork and planning and organising involved in establishing a grant-aided plantation, and professional advice and help is essential in my opinion.

fits

I find greenbelt good also.

cannotdisplay

might be worth considering in your situation green belt or other forestry companies might have an investor willing to buy the land for planting, just a thought

Massey10

FarmerSmith wrote: »

My father owns 37 acres of land jointly with his sister. It's pretty rubbish grazing land and is currently rented for €500 per year. However my father (and aunt) have suddenly gotten worried about the guy renting claiming squatters rights (not sure why) and are thinking about planting it instead.

My father and aunt are both in their 80s so not in a position to do anything physical themselves. I'm 5 months pregnant and DH works in software development so not in a position to help physically OR mentally. By mentally, I mean I don't want to have to be getting involved in applying for grants etc.

I'm looking at companies who will do it all really. We're in the Southwest. Any opinions?

Any forestry company will say its good for planting as its money for them .
If your father has being getting 500 a year from this man he cant claim squatters rights unless its cash and no record of it .

Massey10

bouli73 wrote: »

found greenbelt to be professional. No diffcuilty with them so far and land is planted almost three years.

Forestry seems like a good fix in your circumstances. low mainteance, good return over 20yrs, good return long term. Particularly if the land is marginal

If he is not a farmer it will be 15 years and alot less that the farmer rate

reilig

Based on recent experience I'm going to throw in a word of caution here.

Neighbouring land was planted this time last year. It was done by a prominent forestry company - one which can afford to put ads on the front pages of farming publications, take out full page ads and host a large display stand at every farming event across the country.

I'm a farmer, not a nit picker. I'm not anti-forestry. But right from the start this company caused destruction. We share a laneway with this landowner and use it to access a house and land. the laneway was built to accommodate donkeys and carts, and at a push would carry a car or a small tractor. The forestry company were aware that the laneway did not belong to the land owner that they were planting for as we met them before they started the job.

On the first day, they arrived on the site and tracked a 20 ton digger in and out the lane several times to carry materials, collapsing the laneway in several places, many of the clay bank sides were tracked into the tar and the lane was left unpassable by car.

They proceeded to dig mound drains and these mound drains actually flowed directly onto the laneway and across it instead of into the collector drains at the side which their 20 ton machine had filled up by passing over it. They made new gaps into fields by filling drains with clay. These drains were draining our fields and we were left with flooding.

We pointed out the issues to the foreman who said that they would be repaired before they left. They planted the trees, put up the fences and left without rectifying any of the issues.

We proceeded to contact the forestry inspector who looked at it and recognised our issues. He contacted the forestry company saying that the grant would be withheld until the problems were rectified. They came back and cleaned up the laneway, cleaning the collector drains along its edge and filled some of the holes that they had made with their digger.

They failed to unblock the drains which drained my land. I reported this back to the forestry inspector who came out to look again. I called the forestry company and spoke to the manager who shouted at me, called me a Bo**ocks, and a trouble maker.

A few weeks later, and still nothing was done. I called the forestry inspector who told me that he had approved the grant to the forestry company because they had unblocked the drains and had sent him pictures of the work that was done. He too called me a trouble maker - at this stage, there was still a gap which had been made through the main drain which drains my land and last september, there was a foot of flooding in 1 field of mine caused by this blockage. The forestry company had blagged the inspector into paying the grant

I had to engage a solicitor at this stage who photographed the site and sent a solicitor's letter to the forestry company. They ignored this. Solicitor also contacted the inspector to ask why he had approved the grant when the site had such an issue. He was told that it was out of his hands at that stage. Forestry company ignored the solicitor's letter and called me up again calling me a "Bo**ocks and telling me to stop hassleing them.

I was faced with having to bring the forestry company to court which the solicitor estimated could cost me €5k if things didn't go my way. I would have to get a civil engineer to survey the site (€1500). It would have been easier to get my own digger in to clean up their mess.

A last ditch attempt saw me contact a high profile (pro cannabis) td. He sent a representative to look at the site and was horrified at the mess that was left and that teh grant was paid. I got 2 options - a question to the minister for ag, or file a complaint to the ombudsman that the grant was paid and the site not up to scratch. Opted for the second. Sbmitted the complaint by email, had a phone call from the forestry company within 2 hours and had the whole job fixed up within 2 days.

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I wanted to explain my background on it. I'd advise you to talk to people in your area who have engaged forestry companies to do this work - see who has done a good job or a bad job and make your choice based on that. Teagasc have a few good forestry officers who will offer you initial free advice - I found our local one invaluable.
You don't want to end up in the same situation as here - laneways destroyed, drainage damaged, fallout with neighbours etc.

FarmerSmith

Reilig - thank you for that post as it actually addressed an issue I had forgotten about (its been 20+years since I was anywhere near this land).

Access is awkward. Like in your scenario my father has right of access through someone's driveway. I'm not certain but I'm guessing there's no way any big machinery would physically fit.

Might get in touch with Teagasc first m

fits

Teagasc advisors are always a good port of call. Listen carefully to what they are not saying, as well as to what they are saying.

They cant be seen to be biased but they have good experience of who's doing what, well and badly.

Massey10

reilig wrote: »

Based on recent experience I'm going to throw in a word of caution here.

Neighbouring land was planted this time last year. It was done by a prominent forestry company - one which can afford to put ads on the front pages of farming publications, take out full page ads and host a large display stand at every farming event across the country.

I'm a farmer, not a nit picker. I'm not anti-forestry. But right from the start this company caused destruction. We share a laneway with this landowner and use it to access a house and land. the laneway was built to accommodate donkeys and carts, and at a push would carry a car or a small tractor. The forestry company were aware that the laneway did not belong to the land owner that they were planting for as we met them before they started the job.

On the first day, they arrived on the site and tracked a 20 ton digger in and out the lane several times to carry materials, collapsing the laneway in several places, many of the clay bank sides were tracked into the tar and the lane was left unpassable by car.

They proceeded to dig mound drains and these mound drains actually flowed directly onto the laneway and across it instead of into the collector drains at the side which their 20 ton machine had filled up by passing over it. They made new gaps into fields by filling drains with clay. These drains were draining our fields and we were left with flooding.

We pointed out the issues to the foreman who said that they would be repaired before they left. They planted the trees, put up the fences and left without rectifying any of the issues.

We proceeded to contact the forestry inspector who looked at it and recognised our issues. He contacted the forestry company saying that the grant would be withheld until the problems were rectified. They came back and cleaned up the laneway, cleaning the collector drains along its edge and filled some of the holes that they had made with their digger.

They failed to unblock the drains which drained my land. I reported this back to the forestry inspector who came out to look again. I called the forestry company and spoke to the manager who shouted at me, called me a Bo**ocks, and a trouble maker.

A few weeks later, and still nothing was done. I called the forestry inspector who told me that he had approved the grant to the forestry company because they had unblocked the drains and had sent him pictures of the work that was done. He too called me a trouble maker - at this stage, there was still a gap which had been made through the main drain which drains my land and last september, there was a foot of flooding in 1 field of mine caused by this blockage. The forestry company had blagged the inspector into paying the grant

I had to engage a solicitor at this stage who photographed the site and sent a solicitor's letter to the forestry company. They ignored this. Solicitor also contacted the inspector to ask why he had approved the grant when the site had such an issue. He was told that it was out of his hands at that stage. Forestry company ignored the solicitor's letter and called me up again calling me a "Bo**ocks and telling me to stop hassleing them.

I was faced with having to bring the forestry company to court which the solicitor estimated could cost me €5k if things didn't go my way. I would have to get a civil engineer to survey the site (€1500). It would have been easier to get my own digger in to clean up their mess.

A last ditch attempt saw me contact a high profile (pro cannabis) td. He sent a representative to look at the site and was horrified at the mess that was left and that teh grant was paid. I got 2 options - a question to the minister for ag, or file a complaint to the ombudsman that the grant was paid and the site not up to scratch. Opted for the second. Sbmitted the complaint by email, had a phone call from the forestry company within 2 hours and had the whole job fixed up within 2 days.

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I wanted to explain my background on it. I'd advise you to talk to people in your area who have engaged forestry companies to do this work - see who has done a good job or a bad job and make your choice based on that. Teagasc have a few good forestry officers who will offer you initial free advice - I found our local one invaluable.
You don't want to end up in the same situation as here - laneways destroyed, drainage damaged, fallout with neighbours etc.

They are just out for the grants and have very little interest in the smaller plantations after all grants a drawn

periodictable

As a consultant, I have to say that most jobs done by the big companies fulfill the requirements of the Forest Service, and they are nothing special-it's basically a production line.
I've noticed that the smaller companies or individual foresters who take on jobs take more of an interest in the plantations and pay attention to detail. I spent the day with a forester and he called in to see 3 farmers whose land he planted 8-10 years back, just out of interest- no monetary gain involved.
One large company did a job for a neighbor 15 years back. The plantation was badly checked. The owner decided to fertilize and spray and called the company for advice. The forester could not even recommend a spray to use to kill heather.
Food for thought.

st1979

FarmerSmith wrote: »

Reilig - thank you for that post as it actually addressed an issue I had forgotten about (its been 20+years since I was anywhere near this land).

Access is awkward. Like in your scenario my father has right of access through someone's driveway. I'm not certain but I'm guessing there's no way any big machinery would physically fit.

Might get in touch with Teagasc first m

Remember they will need bigger machinery to harvest and haul the timber. So if access is an issue now it might be worse in 35 years when you have a valuable asset stuck down an inaccessible lane.

periodictable

st1979 wrote: »

Remember they will need bigger machinery to harvest and haul the timber. So if access is an issue now it might be worse in 35 years when you have a valuable asset stuck down an inaccessible lane.

In situations like that it makes sense to try and work with adjoining forest owners if possible on sharing a road-you can attach all sorts of conditions as to it's use by the other person.
I gave Coillte a right of way over my land- they built for me 1/4 mile of top class road, through my plantation and into theirs but Coillte may only use it for forest maintenance/harvesting.

Mr. MD

Avoid this company Green Belt, use them at your own risk. We have to bring legal proceedings for breach of contract and Breech of trust. We are also having the company investigated.