Your marathon race pace strategy

ebixa82

What is the best way to run a marathon?

I've only done half marathons before, where I would select my avg. pace (using mcmillan calculator for expected time) and maintain it from start to finish and it worked fine. i.e. mile 1-mile 12 pace was the same with a burst in mile 13 of whatever I had left.

However, I know I won't be able to maintain the same pace from mile 1-mile 26.

Should you split the marathon into two halves with two different paces, say the 2nd half 5-10 seconds/mile slower than the first?

I know a perfect run would involve negative splits but I'm not quite at that level yet...

All advice/techniques/personal experiences welcomed!

Thanks

rom

negative split is probably the best way or equal pacing. Being passed by people in the late stages can cause it to feel much harder mentally but passing people is much better as you will feel better and probably go even faster. Having positive spilt my first by about 30 mins and negative split my second by a few mins I can say the latter is 10 times a more enjoyable experience and will get the most out of your performance. A big positive spilt is a sign or pure pacing. Ideally you want to be comfortable until you get to 20 / 22 miles pending on ability and then push on from there.

Advise I got from a 2:18 runner is that you want to be full of running at 20 miles and the race just starts then.

TRR

ebixa82 wrote: »

I know a perfect run would involve negative splits but I'm not quite at that level yet...

Negatives splits aren't that hard to run if you are disciplined in the first half and hold back.

Personally I break it into 3 sections.

1) miles 1-10 I just cruise, pace should feel easy and you're fresh after taper so it's no hassle. Keep an eye on watch to make sure I'm not going too fast. If moving slower than planned don't get stressed as pushing too early can mean you literally lose minutes per mile late on.

2) Miles 10-20, just keeping things ticking over. Keep an eye on half split but same again don't take too much notice if not on target. If feeling really good may start to push around mile 18.

last 6 miles. Business time. First 20 miles is all about getting here close to target pace. No use being on target on slightly ahead of target if you're fecked. Now I just run as hard as I can trying to get slightly faster each mile. This isn't always possible but if pace doesn't get faster you'll probably just maintain your current pace.

I know some people like to "bank time" but assuming the course is not net downhill in the first half and net uphill the second half etc I wouldn't recommend this.

ebixa82

rom wrote: »

negative split is probably the best way or equal pacing. Being passed by people in the late stages can cause it to feel much harder mentally but passing people is much better as you will feel better and probably go even faster. Having positive spilt my first by about 30 mins and negative split my second by a few mins I can say the latter is 10 times a more enjoyable experience and will get the most out of your performance. A big positive spilt is a sign or pure pacing. Ideally you want to be comfortable until you get to 20 / 22 miles pending on ability and then push on from there.

Advise I got from a 2:18 runner is that you want to be full of running at 20 miles and the race just starts then.

I guess it's somewhat fear of the unknown. I would hope to do around 3.20 and McMillan gives avg. pace of 7.38min/mile.
I did a 20 mile LSR with that pace and felt ok but I've never ran further than 20 and am paranoid the last 6 mile will knock the boll.ix out of me and I might hit a serious wall.

ebixa82

TRR wrote: »

Negatives splits aren't that hard to run if you are disciplined in the first half and hold back.

Personally I break it into 3 sections.

1) miles 1-10 I just cruise, pace should feel easy and you're fresh after taper so it's no hassle. Keep an eye on watch to make sure I'm not going too fast. If moving slower than planned don't get stressed as pushing too early can mean you literally lose minutes per mile late on.

2) Miles 10-20, just keeping things ticking over. Keep an eye on half split but same again don't take too much notice if not on target. If feeling really good may start to push around mile 18.

last 6 miles. Business time. First 20 miles is all about getting here close to target pace. No use being on target on slightly ahead of target if you're fecked. Now I just run as hard as I can trying to get slightly faster each mile. This isn't always possible but if pace doesn't get faster you'll probably just maintain your current pace.

I know some people like to "bank time" but assuming the course is not net downhill in the first half and net uphill the second half etc I wouldn't recommend this.

Are you are going into the race with an accurate idea (within 1-2 minutes) of what your result will be? And then calculating backwards from that?

TRR

[QUOTE=ebixa82;83837763
I did a 20 mile LSR with that pace and felt ok but I've never ran further than 20 and am paranoid the last 6 mile will knock the boll.ix out of me and I might hit a serious wall.[/QUOTE]

This is a common newbie fear. If you are doing a 20 LSR at target pace you're flying. I normally only do a couple of LSR with 14-16 miles at PMP. Remember you are doing that in a normal training week (I assume) so with rest, taper and race atmosphere etc you should have no problems

TRR

ebixa82 wrote: »

Are you are going into the race with an accurate idea (within 1-2 minutes) of what your result will be? And then calculating backwards from that?

Yes kind of. In your case going for 3.20 you should probably work out splits based on a 3.17.30 finish. Aim for 3.20 and you'll run 3.20 plus. Aim for 3.17 and everything goes well you'll run 3.19 (IMO)

ebixa82

TRR wrote: »

This is a common newbie fear. If you are doing a 20 LSR at target pace you're flying. I normally only do a couple of LSR with 14-16 miles at PMP. Remember you are doing that in a normal training week (I assume) so with rest, taper and race atmosphere etc you should have no problems

Yeah during a normal training week.

Hopefully you are right

(PS What's PMP?)

TRR

ebixa82 wrote: »

Yeah during a normal training week.

Hopefully you are right

(PS What's PMP?)

sorry, planned marathon pace

conseng

TRR wrote: »

I know some people like to "bank time" but assuming the course is not net downhill in the first half and net uphill the second half etc I wouldn't recommend this.

Would this be appropriate for Connemarathon and if so how much for a 3.55 full marathon in your opinion?

statss

You are doing Connemara Sunday week aswell aren't you? I am in the exact same boat, trying to decide what pace to run having only done halves before.

Macmillan has me at 3.20 based on my half time, but, I reckon my real potential is closer to 3.45 as my long runs have not included many MP miles. (damn you HH!) I was planning on adding an extra minute or two for each hill but I need to examine the course profile closely. I was thinking of cruising it at high 8's maybe for the first half, bring it down to mid 8's from 10-20, then go as hard as I can from 20+. In my head I would love to try an even pace 8 minute miles for a 3.30 time but I think I'll leave that for my 2nd marathon!

rom

ebixa82: Most people generally would do make 15M at PMP as maybe part of the backend of a 22M LSR. The problem in doing 20M at PMP is that you will need to recover and if you are doing it say 4 weeks out for race day it may leave you slack. You don't want to leave your best performance in training.

ebixa82

rom wrote: »

ebixa82: Most people generally would do make 15M at PMP as maybe part of the backend of a 22M LSR. The problem in doing 20M at PMP is that you will need to recover and if you are doing it say 4 weeks out for race day it may leave you slack. You don't want to leave your best performance in training.

I did the 20 miler including the hill at Howth 2 weekends ago, I'm doing Connemara on April 7th. Tapering now.

TBH I'm not sure what exactly my PMP is. All of my LSR (6 between 16-20miles) have been 7.30-7.40 pace.

My (faster) short runs (6-8 miles) are usually 7.00-7.10.

Hope I haven't burned myself out. I have incorporated the two hills at Connemara when predicting a 3.20.

There's a lot of planning involved in this marathon craic!

TRR

conseng wrote: »

Would this be appropriate for Connemarathon and if so how much for a 3.55 full marathon in your opinion?

It may be. I've never ran Connemara so can't comment. Lots of posters here have though so one of them might be able to give you some advice.

menoscemo

conseng wrote: »

Would this be appropriate for Connemarathon and if so how much for a 3.55 full marathon in your opinion?

I Conn, I would be looking to bank about a few minutes over the first half (most of it is flat but miles 9-13 are downhill- this is where you can gain time) and give that up on the two long hills on the second half.
So For a 3:55 marathon you should be looking at 1:55 first half and 2 hr second half IMO

The important thing is maintaining an even effort, so don't push to maintain pace on uphills- you will burn yourself out.

EauRouge79

menoscemo wrote: »

I Conn, I would be looking to bank about a few minutes over the first half (most of it is flat but miles 9-13 are downhill- this is where you can gain time) and give that up on the two long hills on the second half.
So For a 3:55 marathon you should be looking at 1:55 first half and 2 hr second half IMO

The important thing is maintaining an even effort, so don't push to maintain pace on uphills- you will burn yourself out.

+1 on this.
Miles 7-9 are tough enough but you have a nice break and some fast sections to half way.
Bank the couple of mins for each of the 2 hills and you can stay relaxed.

Enjoy Connemara its a great experience.