Warning - Red Line Luas

Lumbo

Got my usual Luas home from work this evening a bit later then usual. It was still before 7. After the Blackhorse stop some scumbag attempted to snatch a phone off a mother who was with her child. He was gone before anyone could react but the woman ended up on the ground. I've seen a lot of crap on the Luas over the years but this was the most blatant piece of crime I've had to witness. The woman was alright, I informed the driver and security got on at Hueston. So just be aware of the people around you, the majority of people on the Luas are fine upstanding citizens, some of them are the dregs.

Layinghen

This 'development' on the red Luas line was reported in the papers a few days ago. Apparently extra security is being put on the Luas and at the most troublesome stops. Horrific thing to happen to that poor mum.

Dravokivich

There's been this kind of trouble since the end of 2006. It's easy to run on and off with the open platforms.

cson

You'd question the judgement in providing a particular section of society with a direct route into the City Centre. I can see the logic from the point of view of making it easier to get into Court.

coylemj

Really can't see the point of the 'Warning' in the thread title - don't people have their phones snatched from them in every city in this dear little country of ours - what's unique about the Luas red line just because the OP witnessed a robbery?

The thread title should be 'Warning - stay at home'.

cson

The dogs in the street know you've a higher percentage chance of this type of crime happening you on the Luas Red Line than any other form of public transportation in the country. It's a symptom of the areas it serves.

As I said, I question the rationale in providing a modern state of the art mass transit system to areas that abuse it. Yes, a lot of decent people do live in these areas but so do a lot of unsavoury characters.

I can't help but think that planning wise a line similar to the Green Line going northbound towards the airport via Drumcondra with the current Red Line simply doing a loop of the Quays/City Centre connecting Green and Blue Lines (lets call my Drumcondra idea the Blue Line) would have served Dublin City far better than the current status quo.

Captain Chaos

Wait and see what the new Blue line will be like as it goes to Broombridge, it's bad enough with the trains getting bricked regularly and the ticket machines getting thrown in the canal.

Dravokivich

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Wait and see what the new Blue line will be like as it goes to Broombridge, it's bad enough with the trains getting bricked regularly and the ticket machines getting thrown in the canal.

The Luas depot planned for Broombridge is intended to be within an enclosed compound.

AlekSmart

coylemj wrote: »

Really can't see the point of the 'Warning' in the thread title - don't people have their phones snatched from them in every city in this dear little country of ours - what's unique about the Luas red line just because the OP witnessed a robbery?

The thread title should be 'Warning - stay at home'.

As a Warning about a specific location I think it's accurate and truthful.

LUAS is one of the most significant and positive Public Projects ever undertaken by this State for it's (Law Abiding) Citizens,and as such,deserves to be kept as safe,secure and comfortable as possible.

There are many areas of our Cities and Towns which,today,we cannot describe in these terms,but generally we "ordinaries" give these places a wide berth,however LUAS as a universally available PUBLIC Transport system is not designed to be avoided,its purpose is to be utilized as much as possible.

What is unique about the Red Line is the manner in which the significant number of warnings and observations from Customers over a long period,have been initially dismissed before being acted upon more from a PR perspective than anything else.

http://www.rpa.ie/en/investment_in_luas/Pages/LuasTramWatch.aspx

One can take it that the RPA/Veolia only embarked upon this particular campaign after satisfying themselves as to the actual need for it.

Agencies of any kind,and particularly Public Service one's do not at all like to involve themselves in anything that could be interpreted as negativity.

However,such is the level to which general behaviour along significant stretches of the Red Line has fallen that the RPA/Veolia had no alternative but to act.

Captain Chaos is indeed correct to point a withering finger towards Broombridge as it has already ticked so many of the boxes already,but whether the RPA/Veolia and the State agencies are prepared to adopt the same Lord Nelson approach is a valid question.

anncoates

In general on public transport, you should get used to gripping your phone or tablet tighter just as you approach a stop. Common sense.

anncoates

cson wrote: »

You'd question the judgement in providing a particular section of society with a direct route into the City Centre. I can see the logic from the point of view of making it easier to get into Court.

Nice.

I'm writing this on the red line which is packed with commuters and tourists.

I'm going to a well paid professional job, not court, thanks.

iDave

Not everyone who uses the Red Line actually lives near it. I live in Drumcondra but need the Red Line to get to Citywest to work

AlekSmart

iDave wrote: »

Not everyone who uses the Red Line actually lives near it. I live in Drumcondra but need the Red Line to get to Citywest to work

And your need for the Red Line iDave,is exactly why the Agencies involved need to get serious about their enforcement and monitoring policies.

If the Red Line is not to go the way of the various Dublin Bus services to Tallaght over the decades,then it's integrity needs to be robustly protected and it's attraction for EVERYBODY maintained.

The message that sections of Red Line are risky or downright dangerous during certain periods needs to be challenged and visibly so.

If this entails confronting certain groups and causing them visible inconvenience then all the better.

Not all of my Red Line journeys are white-knuckle affairs.
However,far too many of them involve witnessing acts,or being forced to compromise my own comfort to facilitate anti-social types excercising their entitlement to abuse or otherwise interefere with people who want nothing whatever to do with them.

The Red Line needs more paying passengers throughout it's operational hours.

Those empty Park & Ride sites need to be utilized to a level which sustains them and meets the original projections.

But,most of all,LUAS needs ordinary people to feel confident and safe about using it !

And,I don't really care how many antisocial savages are discommoded in making it so !

iDave

AlekSmart wrote: »

And your need for the Red Line iDave,is exactly why the Agencies involved need to get serious about their enforcement and monitoring policies.

If the Red Line is not to go the way of the various Dublin Bus services to Tallaght over the decades,then it's integrity needs to be robustly protected and it's attraction for EVERYBODY maintained.

The message that sections of Red Line are risky or downright dangerous during certain periods needs to be challenged and visibly so.

If this entails confronting certain groups and causing them visible inconvenience then all the better.

Not all of my Red Line journeys are white-knuckle affairs.
However,far too many of them involve witnessing acts,or being forced to compromise my own comfort to facilitate anti-social types excercising their entitlement to abuse or otherwise interefere with people who want nothing whatever to do with them.

The Red Line needs more paying passengers throughout it's operational hours.

Those empty Park & Ride sites need to be utilized to a level which sustains them and meets the original projections.

But,most of all,LUAS needs ordinary people to feel confident and safe about using it !

And,I don't really care how many antisocial savages are discommoded in making it so !

Cant argue with any of that. Havent had any shocking experiences myself and have been using it twice a day for a year and a half but nonetheless I am aware of the antisocial types who board who you just wouldnt see on the Green line.

purplepanda

Crime is all too common in most European cities, try Turin or Rome trams for snatch, grab & run thieves, happens too fast for passengers & bystanders to react & the getaway route is already planned beforehand, often with others waiting at the stops. :mad:

Just got to be careful, Mums distracted with kids would be easy targets for these lowlifes. :mad:

Just look out for your fellow passengers when traveling around.

cson

anncoates wrote: »

Nice.

I'm writing this on the red line which is packed with commuters and tourists.

I'm going to a well paid professional job, not court, thanks.

In fairness I was being somewhat facetious there.

Look, notwithstanding that the majority of the commuters using it may be upstanding citizens, it attracts a certain element of society that no other form of public transport in the city does save for Broombridge Station. This isn't the first story like this about the Red Line. No smoke without fire and all that.

And I don't accept this argument that similar levels of petty crime occur in other major European Cities - why should we tolerate it in Dublin at all, nevermind comparisons to European neighbours.

LXFlyer

cson wrote: »

In fairness I was being somewhat facetious there.

Look, notwithstanding that the majority of the commuters using it may be upstanding citizens, it attracts a certain element of society that no other form of public transport in the city does save for Broombridge Station. This isn't the first story like this about the Red Line. No smoke without fire and all that.

And I don't accept this argument that similar levels of petty crime occur in other major European Cities - why should we tolerate it in Dublin at all, nevermind comparisons to European neighbours.

Plenty of other bus routes in Dublin do and have suffered from equal measures of anti-social behaviour as the red line, the difference is people don't see it as they're not on those bus routes.

This sort of thing tends to get swept under the carpet and only gets noticed when it starts impacting on the greater public at large.

mikemac1

cson wrote: »

it attracts a certain element of society that no other form of public transport in the city does save for Broombridge Station.

Try upstairs on the 40 and you're sitting near the back

It's quiet in the mornings though, the poor lambs probably don't rise before noon!

Give me the Red Line anyday

dfx-

mikemac1 wrote: »

Try upstairs on the 40 and you're sitting near the back

It's quiet in the mornings though, the poor lambs probably don't rise before noon!

Give me the Red Line anyday

There was nowhere as dangerous in Dublin as the upstairs of the 78A, the 40 and red line Luas is calm by comparison. They are prepared to new shiny buses on the 40...they didn't dare on the 78A :pac:

Why people would choose the Luas over the bus is beyond my knowledge. Almost every red line stop is served by a bus route of some sort.

Dravokivich

dfx- wrote: »

There was nowhere as dangerous in Dublin as the upstairs of the 78A, the 40 and red line Luas is calm by comparison. They are prepared to new shiny buses on the 40...they didn't dare on the 78A :pac:

Why people would choose the Luas over the bus is beyond my knowledge. Almost every red line stop is served by a bus route of some sort.

It's not worth the while hopping on and off buses though is it? Not everyone getting it, uses it to get to town either.

Also, didn't the 78a get merged with the 40?

dfx-

• The 123 goes around 30 seconds walk by the canal red line stops. The 122 isn't much further away, neither is the 68.
  
• The 69 operates from Saggart to the Red Cow through to the Kylemore, Bluebell, Blackhorse stops onto Heuston Station and the Quays.
  
• The 77A is possibly quicker from the Square to Citywest than the Luas by the time you change.
  
• The 56A operates through Belgard, Cookstown, Kingswood and a 2 minute walk from the Kylemore stop.
  
• The 151 operates through the Docklands to "The Point" on that end, also a two minute walk from Kylemore.
  
• Then there's the artery routes that cross nearby if you need them, like the 13/40/27

I guess there's not more than one change to get to a considerable amount of stops on the network that doesn't have to include town or boarding a Luas.

Miss Lockhart

dfx- wrote: »

There was nowhere as dangerous in Dublin as the upstairs of the 78A, the 40 and red line Luas is calm by comparison. They are prepared to new shiny buses on the 40...they didn't dare on the 78A :pac:

Why people would choose the Luas over the bus is beyond my knowledge. Almost every red line stop is served by a bus route of some sort.

The 78a is now the 40. Are you suggesting changing the route number has radically changed the behaviour of certain passengers?

LXFlyer

T

LXFlyer

The 40 is now operated by two depots. Harristown tend to put a mix of vehicles on it.

The on-board behaviour has not changed.

ordinary_girl

cson wrote: »

it attracts a certain element of society that no other form of public transport in the city does save for Broombridge Station.

I'm going to assume you've never been on the 40, 27 or 13 (at certain times) buses then. I'm from Tallaght, and I understand how to other people it can seem quite cut and dry: there's a lot of anti-social behaviour in certain areas so the LUAS shouldn't go there.

To be blunt, yes there are scumbags in the area, but in my very unscientific research (ie living here since birth and being dependent on public transport since I was 12) I think the number of decent, hard-working people absolutely outweighs the less desirable elements. The fact that people seem to think that cutting off any avenues of public transport from these areas is somehow a solution is baffling, I need to get to work and college like the next person. Nothing quite beats that feeling of dread when you're on a bus or a LUAS and a large group of teenagers, usually in tracksuits, gets on the bus or LUAS or someone who's stoned off their head gets on.

The issue isn't the transport going to these areas though, it's needed, it's the fact that there's an acceptance of this anti-social behaviour within Irish society. We'll all be appalled by it, but we won't do anything. (And I include myself in that, I've seen how easily things can go wrong on the very rare occasions when other people have gotten involved.)

starviewadams

Gougers on all forms of PT in Dublin from time to time,Red Line seems to have a massive reputation for being crime ridden that I can see no justification for,other then the fact it travels through less then desirable areas,in some peoples minds.

I use it regularly enough off and on peak and never see much hassle other then addicts arguing among themselves over the last sip of a flagon, or the odd group of teenagers messing between the Fatima and Blackhorse stops.Hardly panic stations stuff.

At the end of the day the lady who got her phone stolen wasn't paying attention to her surroundings and she lost her phone because of it,not saying that it's her fault but things like that happen in every major city in the world,and isn't the exclusive preserve of the Red Line.

The old 78a and 79 in the mid/late 90's were a horror show for the most part,as were the early morning and mid afternoon 76's when addicts would be travelling to/from Cherry Orchard hospital for drug treatment services.They would actually be deserving of the hysteria that surrounds the Red Line these days.

RandolphEsq

Openly smoking and organising a drug deal, threatening to shoot the 'buyer' I have seen and heard on the red line during the day, off peak. I really pity the older ladies heading into town for coffee and shopping having to endure the scum the red line attracts during the day. And the drugged out sub-humans may be half-passed out but can create an uncomfortable atmosphere. It's so infuriating.

Miss Lockhart

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

The 78a is now the 40. Are you suggesting changing the route number has radically changed the behaviour of certain passengers?

Harristown put all sorts of buses on the 40, even EVs or VGs. Conyngham Road are still putting mostly the older AVs on it. So it's more the garage than the change of number.

Miss Lockhart

Karsini wrote: »

Harristown put all sorts of buses on the 40, even EVs or VGs. Conyngham Road are still putting mostly the older AVs on it. So it's more the garage than the change of number.

Yes. I'm just perplexed by dfx' implication that the 40 is not as bad as the 78a because of the buses used.

I think anyone who regularly uses the 40 (on the old 78a route at least) will agree that the behaviour on board is as bad as ever and worse than the Red Line in most instances.

AlekSmart

ordinary_girl wrote: »

I'm going to assume you've never been on the 40, 27 or 13 (at certain times) buses then. I'm from Tallaght, and I understand how to other people it can seem quite cut and dry: there's a lot of anti-social behaviour in certain areas so the LUAS shouldn't go there.

To be blunt, yes there are scumbags in the area, but in my very unscientific research (ie living here since birth and being dependent on public transport since I was 12) I think the number of decent, hard-working people absolutely outweighs the less desirable elements.The fact that people seem to think that cutting off any avenues of public transport from these areas is somehow a solution is baffling, I need to get to work and college like the next person. Nothing quite beats that feeling of dread when you're on a bus or a LUAS and a large group of teenagers, usually in tracksuits, gets on the bus or LUAS or someone who's stoned off their head gets on.

The issue isn't the transport going to these areas though, it's needed, it's the fact that there's an acceptance of this anti-social behaviour within Irish society. We'll all be appalled by it, but we won't do anything. (And I include myself in that, I've seen how easily things can go wrong on the very rare occasions when other people have gotten involved.)

Post of the Year on this topic I suggest !

Whether anybody agrees with it or not,the Luas Red Line and it's Saggart Extension exists only due to a MASSIVE investment of Public Funds and EU Grant Aid as well as private investment in the case of the Saggart XT.

The issue surrounding the Red Line is how it's sustainability can be established and maintained for EVERYBODY rather than,as of now,seeing it eroded and compromised with every anti-social or criminal occurrence which occurs in and around the system.

Knee Jerk reaction is just that..REaction..and occurs only after the fact.

The main problem for RPA/Veolia is the lack of a pre-existing and unambiguous policy and an associated no-nonsense approach (Backed up by the full weight of the LAW).

Get the message out there first,IN BLOCK CAPITALS,with pictograms for those who have comprehension difficulties,but get it out there !

At the present point,the main issue facing RPA/Veolia and the likes of Ordinary_Girl is that the Savages now reckon they run the show,or that the Show is run for them alone,with the likes of Ordinary_Girl representing handy cover or prey should it be required.

The amount of Intelligence and Information on individuals currently in the hands of the RPA/Veolia and the Gardai is substantial.
None of it is of much use,however,if it cannot be used to directly enforce compliance by the individuals concerned.
If the Law,or sections thereof,requires alteration to allow this then CHANGE IT.

That is my own view,as a Luas customer and as a Tallaght resident for 30 years,who appreciates each day the massive benefit of Luas when compared to what the,once superb,Tallaght Bus network finally ended up as.

Starviewadams: Gougers on all forms of PT in Dublin from time to time,Red Line seems to have a massive reputation for being crime ridden that I can see no justification for,other then the fact it travels through less then desirable areas,in some peoples minds.

I use it regularly enough off and on peak and never see much hassle other then addicts arguing among themselves over the last sip of a flagon, or the odd group of teenagers messing between the Fatima and Blackhorse stops.Hardly panic stations stuff.

At the end of the day the lady who got her phone stolen wasn't paying attention to her surroundings and she lost her phone because of it,not saying that it's her fault but things like that happen in every major city in the world,and isn't the exclusive preserve of the Red Line.

The old 78a and 79 in the mid/late 90's were a horror show for the most part,as were the early morning and mid afternoon 76's when addicts would be travelling to/from Cherry Orchard hospital for drug treatment services.They would actually be deserving of the hysteria that surrounds the Red Line these days.

Unfortunately the "reputation" being gained each day by the Red Line is indeed quite justified.

I would disagree totally with the comment on the Phone Snatch Lady,as whether one qualifies it or not,it IS ascribing a level of blame to the victim,which then can be used to reduce the level applying to the perpretrator...

It's a very dangerous road to go down.

Sadly,all of the Bus Routes mentioned,were and are associated in the Public Mind with services to be utilized only be the brave or those who have no alternative.

This is exactly what led to Dublin Bus having to restructure and withdraw services within and around areas such as Tallaght,as the fare-paying customers simply vanished after the peak times,leaving only the more colourful excitable types on board.

This is exactly the scenario we do NOT want to allow develop with Luas Red Line,but, developing is exactly what it is doing.

Clarity of Purpose,with the RPA/Veolia demonstrating its high regard for its own system.
Unambiguous Rules,coupled with Visible,Constant Enforcement.

Two simple,yet, highly problematic issues for our native psyche to accept,yet they're the only attitudes which will allow Luas to grow sustainably.

Del2005

starviewadams wrote: »

Gougers on all forms of PT in Dublin from time to time,Red Line seems to have a massive reputation for being crime ridden that I can see no justification for,other then the fact it travels through less then desirable areas,in some peoples minds.

I use it regularly enough off and on peak and never see much hassle other then addicts arguing among themselves over the last sip of a flagon, or the odd group of teenagers messing between the Fatima and Blackhorse stops.Hardly panic stations stuff.

At the end of the day the lady who got her phone stolen wasn't paying attention to her surroundings and she lost her phone because of it,not saying that it's her fault but things like that happen in every major city in the world,and isn't the exclusive preserve of the Red Line.

The old 78a and 79 in the mid/late 90's were a horror show for the most part,as were the early morning and mid afternoon 76's when addicts would be travelling to/from Cherry Orchard hospital for drug treatment services.They would actually be deserving of the hysteria that surrounds the Red Line these days.

The same and worst is happening on the red line. Most posters here use it for a few hours per day, the staff are dealing with it everyday and the stuff in the press/posted here is nothing.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unambiguous Rules,coupled with Visible,Constant Enforcement.

Two simple,yet, highly problematic issues for our native psyche to accept,yet they're the only attitudes which will allow Luas to grow sustainably.

Or stop the bleeding hearts/solicitors laying the blame on society and admit that they are now creating a class of people with ZERO respect for authority. The scumbags doing this to our public transport are now above the law as the STT can't remove them from the LUAS, infringing their rights!!, and the Gardaí don't waste their resources as they know the scum will be on the streets before they have the paper work done.

ShadowFox

Lumbo wrote: »

Got my usual Luas home from work this evening a bit later then usual. It was still before 7. After the Blackhorse stop some scumbag attempted to snatch a phone off a mother who was with her child. He was gone before anyone could react but the woman ended up on the ground. I've seen a lot of crap on the Luas over the years but this was the most blatant piece of crime I've had to witness. The woman was alright, I informed the driver and security got on at Hueston. So just be aware of the people around you, the majority of people on the Luas are fine upstanding citizens, some of them are the dregs.

This has happened and still does happen on the Luas Green line and on the Dart mostly during the summer months lots of gullible tourists around It also happens most places around the city. I seen a kid one day on O Connell Street about 11 or 12 years old smoking there was a tourist with a big video camera he was wearing wide pocket shorts, the kid flicked the lighting cigarette into the guys pocket he put down the camera to put out the fire in his pocket and the kid grabbed the camera and was gone within seconds
So no matter if your on public transport or walking to your local shop always beware of what / who is around you
Oh and just to add there is a group going around Swords/Malahide area one gets out of a car when they see a female on her own at the bus stop grabs her phone or handbag jumps back into the car and gone. 3 different cars have been reported doing this according to the Guards

superman28

Does anyone know is there a breakdown of the numbers of reported crime on the Luas?, I was recently robbed on board the Red Luas line and noted that none of my details were taken when reporting it to LUAS customer service.

I have emailed the RPA but havn't recieved a response..

cgcsb

I get why there are no ticket barriers at stops in central areas but I think there should be an attempt to bring in ticket barriers where practical, namely at the suburban stops then security and ticket inspection can be concentrated in the central area.

monument

cgcsb wrote: »

I get why there are no ticket barriers at stops in central areas but I think there should be an attempt to bring in ticket barriers where practical, namely at the suburban stops then security and ticket inspection can be concentrated in the central area.

The cost and idea of that would be madness.

In most cases it would be next to impossible to secure stations at any reasonable cost given the nature of the tramway.

That's without mentioning all of the benefits of an open system.

LXFlyer

superman28 wrote: »

Does anyone know is there a breakdown of the numbers of reported crime on the Luas?, I was recently robbed on board the Red Luas line and noted that none of my details were taken when reporting it to LUAS customer service.

I have emailed the RPA but havn't recieved a response..

Did you not also report it to An Garda Síochána?

JayRoc

monument wrote: »

The cost and idea of that would be madness.

In most cases it would be next to impossible to secure stations at any reasonable cost given the nature of the tramway.

That's without mentioning all of the benefits of an open system.

Remember when we used to employ conductors on the tram and the bus? But sure, that was back in the 70's and 80's. You know....when Ireland had loads of money to fritter away

grimbergen

To be honest, I'm always amazed that there aren't more smart phone robberies. You're basically holding cash in front of you and waving it about. A small bit of common sense from some people would see this particular crime drop dramatically.

Banjoxed

JayRoc wrote: »

Remember when we used to employ conductors on the tram and the bus? But sure, that was back in the 70's and 80's. You know....when Ireland had loads of money to fritter away

Trams in Dublin in the 70s? That sounds like a dream I had after a particularly pungent bit of cheese once. And you'd really, really wouldn't want to go back to the days of filthy Atlanteans on an alphabet soup of infrequent route variants that was Dublin City Bus Services in the mighty CIE empire.