Is this appropriate?

Lux23

A friend of mine is having problems in work, but just got this text from their employer. Without the context, do people think it's an appropriate thing for an employer to say to an employee?




This is not about you needing to speak up for yourself, rather, you need to learn to listen to the people who both pay your salary and who, by virtue of their experience, actually know what they're taking about.

markfinn

Without the context leaves one forced to make assumptions, but yeah, that's probably fine, assuming that the employer isn't too worried about the employee leaving.

Lux23

Sorry, I don't understand you?

Zulu

Without context it's impossible to say if it's appropriate or not.

That said, it's apparent that you are simply looking for people to support your opinion that it's not appropriate, so, in the spirit of that: no! It's outrageously inappropriate. Your friend should sue them for bullying.

I hope this helps.

Lux23

Zulu wrote: »

Without context it's impossible to say if it's appropriate or not.

That said, it's apparent that you are simply looking for people to support your opinion that it's not appropriate, so, in the spirit of that: no! It's outrageously inappropriate. Your friend should sue them for bullying.

I hope this helps.

I'm looking for honest answers, nothing else. I thought this was an advice forum, not a place where unhelpful comments were the norm.

WhatNowForUs?

People really can't give advice on the evidence you have provided.

Zulu

Lux, you have given us nothing, and asked us to advise 'out of context', how you can expect anything more is incredible.

hawkelady

It sounds as if your friend needs to listen to his/her employer and take into consideration that the fact that they pay his/her wages , that they do actually know what there job entailes.
Aaaah , reading that back it's a mess. In other words , the text is fine and your mate should work harder and listen more. Simples

column

hawkelady wrote: »

It sounds as if your friend needs to listen to his/her employer and take into consideration that the fact that they pay his/her wages , that they do actually know what there job entailes.
Aaaah , reading that back it's a mess. In other words , the text is fine and your mate should work harder and listen more. Simples

I think it's the way the message was worded and the heavey handded way in which the message and not the content of the message which is inappropriate.

There's ways of dealing with employees. By text message isn't one of them. And that the wording is outragous.

tatli_lokma

Well the language used is fine - its not rude, abusive, bullying, unprofessional etc. The only issue I would have is things like this being said in a text and not face to face. A manager shouldn't be texting this if they haven't already had a discussion about it already. TBH I wouldn't send a text like that even if it was something previously discussed - I just think it would be better discussed in person.

But as others have rightly pointed out without context it is very difficult to give an answer. Depending on the context it might be understandable why it was discussed in a text rather than in person.

Lux23

Sorry, I didn't really explain what I was asking. It's not the content as such, but how it was delivered and the tone that was used.

The issue isn't what my friend's employer is telling, more the way it was said to them?

column

I think it is unprofessional.

LegacyUser

What kind of manager is sending criticism of an employee's performance by text message?

It is extremely unprofessional.

rainbowtrout

Lux23 wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't really explain what I was asking. It's not the content as such, but how it was delivered and the tone that was used.

The issue isn't what my friend's employer is telling, more the way it was said to them?

There's no tone because it's a text, not spoken. Also it looks like it is in reply to a text from the person you are talking about, so it depends on what that person said in their text to elicit that response.

jimmycrackcorm

column wrote: »

I think it is unprofessional.

Give us the professional version then. As for sending by text, it's no different than getting the same in an email.

Lux23

I suppose the context is difficult, but essentially it was after a phone conversation where the employer and employee discussed a particular issue. The employer was looking for clarification, the employee wasn't sure, the employer hung up so the employee had to text the clarification. The employer then sent back a number of texts, in which these two lines appeared.

Edited to take out aggressive - cant be sure.

wexie

Lux23 wrote: »

A friend of mine is having problems in work, but just got this text from their employer. Without the context, do people think it's an appropriate thing for an employer to say to an employee?




This is not about you needing to speak up for yourself, rather, you need to learn to listen to the people who both pay your salary and who, by virtue of their experience, actually know what they're taking about.

Like many people have said it's hard to say without context, however if you ask me that sounds like the manager is trying to get your friend to take some sound advice. Possibly a bit on the blunt side, but again that's down to context.

du Maurier

It's a tad high-handed and dictatorial imo. Ugh, just imagining (should they be that) some self-righteous oppressor lording it over their charges!:)

column

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Give us the professional version then.

Gladly.

It seems the issue of communication needs to be addressed again. I think it would be more productive for both of us if we both let the other party speak in full so that everyone gets a chance to make their point.

tatli_lokma

column wrote: »

Gladly.

It seems the issue of communication needs to be addressed again. I think it would be more productive for both of us if we both let the other party speak in full so that everyone gets a chance to make their point.

that is a very different message to the one OP's friend got IMO. The text OP's mate got was more or less telling them to stop thinking they know it all and accept that there are times when you need to just shut up and put up. Very different to what you just said.

Zulu

Lux23 wrote: »

...the employer hung up so the employee had to text the clarification. The employer then sent back a number of texts, in which these two lines appeared.

We can only guess that the employee didn't "have" to text for clarification, (was if life or death?) they could have waited until they met the employer and discussed directly. By texting the employer back after the phone conversation ended, they've essentially accepted "text" as acceptable communication, which I personally, would be hesitant to do.

Also, a suggestion: by texting back after the conversation had ended, it could appear like someone who needs to get the last word in. If this ties in with what they are like, then I could understand the salient point of the text - however blunt it appears.

Ultimately, you aren't giving us the context still. You aren't giving us what was contained in either the original conversation. And you aren't giving us the content of the following texts. We are clueless as to what prompted this text, so we are equally clueless as to how appropriate it is.

column

Little Ted wrote: »

that is a very different message to the one OP's friend got IMO. The text OP's mate got was more or less telling them to stop thinking they know it all and accept that there are times when you need to just shut up and put up. Very different to what you just said.

It is very different because I have a different interpretation of the opening post.

My interpretation is about speaking and listenening.

Lux23

column wrote: »

It is very different because I have a different interpretation of the opening post.

My interpretation is about speaking and listenening.

That's it, it has nothing about thinking you know it all. It was more, the employer felt the employee wasn't listening to them. Simply put they felt the employee was interrupting them. Not that they knew it all.

But it's interesting to see what other people think.

tatli_lokma

column wrote: »

It is very different because I have a different interpretation of the opening post.

My interpretation is about speaking and listenening.

Fair enough, and it just goes to show that context is very important when looking at this matter. And also it shows that with text messages, tone, intent etc are very hard to judge.

This is not about you needing to speak up for yourself, rather, you need to learn to listen to the people who both pay your salary and who, by virtue of their experience, actually know what they're taking about.

to me this sounds like someone who 'spoke up for themself' when possibly they should have stayed quiet and just taken it on the chin. Or someone was making excuses for something, when instead of defending themselves or trying to convince others, should have just been listening to the advice they were being given. I come across this a lot - employee x does/says something they shouldn't have. When you tell them about it, they resort to 'yeah but' type answers and try to shrug off blame. Sometimes, even with the best of intentions or in understandable situations you make a mistake. The mature thing is to accept you made a mistake and learn from it. Not everyone does this and instead resorts to 'yeah but' responses and then gets a face on because they were reprimanded.

This might not be the case with OP's mate, as without the context we don't know. But my reading of the text is that someone should learn when to stay quiet and deferr to others who are more senior and more experienced.

tatli_lokma

Lux23 wrote: »

That's it, it has nothing about thinking you know it all. It was more, the employer felt the employee wasn't listening to them. Simply put they felt the employee was interrupting them. Not that they knew it all.

But it's interesting to see what other people think.

If your mate was in a meeting with more senior managers and kept interrupting - regardless of how relevant their opinions are - then the manager might well be right to tell them to learn when to be quiet. I have sat in meetings with senior managers who talked utter sh!te, but you don't have to pick up on every little thing. Sometimes you say nothing, and do things your own way anyway! Talking over managers or talking out of turn is not a great way to secure a place for yourself in an organisation. Pick your battles, and be aware of the timing.

sbsquarepants

Posstee wrote: »

What kind of manager is sending criticism of an employee's performance by text message?

It is extremely unprofessional.

column wrote: »

I think it is unprofessional.

I fail to see the difference in sending a text, an email or an old school formal letter. It's all just the employers opinion in writing.
Although in my experience if the boss is having to point out that he who pays the piper calls the tune, you've usually overstepped the mark somehow. Or the boss could just be an asshole, though usually, it has to be said, it's the former. Without the details who knows!

column

Little Ted wrote: »

Fair enough, and it just goes to show that context is very important when looking at this matter. And also it shows that with text messages, tone, intent etc are very hard to judge.


to me this sounds like someone who 'spoke up for themself' when possibly they should have stayed quiet and just taken it on the chin. Or someone was making excuses for something, when instead of defending themselves or trying to convince others, should have just been listening to the advice they were being given. I come across this a lot - employee x does/says something they shouldn't have. When you tell them about it, they resort to 'yeah but' type answers and try to shrug off blame. Sometimes, even with the best of intentions or in understandable situations you make a mistake. The mature thing is to accept you made a mistake and learn from it. Not everyone does this and instead resorts to 'yeah but' responses and then gets a face on because they were reprimanded.

This might not be the case with OP's mate, as without the context we don't know. But my reading of the text is that someone should learn when to stay quiet and deferr to others who are more senior and more experienced.

That's a fair interpretation.

tatli_lokma

email, text, letter - I don't think any of these are preferable. Much better to have a face to face conversation, or at the very least a phone call. The only thing I would put in writing about performance/ behaviour would be following a proper disciplinary or following a formal performance appraisal and it would be as a follow up to what was discussed to get it on the record. In the case of a performance review I would chose different wording.

Putting things in writing should only be reserved for more formal issues IMO. If it is a bit of advice you want to give, give it face to face or at least by phone. If the person did overstep the mark, and even text the manager first, I would still recommend the manager reply to the effect that they would have a chat about it tomorrow in person. I would always be very cautious of anything I put in writing of any form to be by the book and I would be very careful about what I said and how I said it.

But +1 to your comments about overstepping the mark.

column

I agree. Face to face is best.

surferdudz

Zulu wrote: »

Lux, you have given us nothing, and asked us to advise 'out of context', how you can expect anything more is incredible.

i wonder why you sound so hostile,

Zulu

surferdudz wrote: »

i wonder why you sound so hostile,

Hummm, so do I. It's not intentional. I suppose this could be considered another example of how "tone" can be confused in text!