Tennis in Ireland

Grid.

This has probably been discussed before.....but can anyone tell me why Irish tennis is of such a low standard and the lack of progress in major tournaments??

Rob2D

Grid. wrote: »

This has probably been discussed before.....but can anyone tell me why Irish tennis is of such a low standard and the lack of progress in major tournaments??

1. Not enough clubs.

2. All the courts are outside in the rain so it makes it more of a summer thing here.

(your avatar made me smile BTW:))

bridgepeople

Grid. wrote: »

This has probably been discussed before.....but can anyone tell me why Irish tennis is of such a low standard and the lack of progress in major tournaments??

For me I think the bottom line is that tennis just isn't that popular in Ireland. Golf is a much bigger game here and we certainly punch above our weight in the world golf rankings there.

the_monkey

Exactly, not enough interest, outdoor courts on a surface that there is absolutely no pro tournaments on - Savannah

Takingiteasy

Another reason is Tennis Ireland - the association.
It had done very little for tennis in Ireland, especially for those outside Dublin.
It did nothing go promote or develop the sport or facilities in the good times.

Rob2D

The GAA has too much power as well. Most other sports are smothered, especially out here in the country. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy a game of hurling as much as the next guy, but I do think its wrong how most non-GAA sports are given little attention officially. Can't we all just get along?

I recently went to play a friendly in Galway with my club and I shocked to see how few young people there were. None almost. I expected a good few since Galway would be considered a youthful city. But the tennis captain said they find it almost impossible to hold onto the kids once they hit their teens. He was told by a few teens that tennis just wasn't considered "cool". A sad thing to hear.

For most clubs out in the country, it seems they lose their younger players at 17-18 when most move away to college. At least that's kind of understandable I guess. But what you're left with, at least in my club anyway, is a majority of elderly people. Well, not really old but y'know what I mean.

That said, the local secondary schools in my town have started to bring the kids down to the club on PE days. Now this is great to see because when I was in secondary a few years back, the most exotic thing we had was pitch and putt. And that was only because there was a small course just around the corner. Your other choices were to go to the field or indoor soccer in the hall. I'd have killed for something like a tennis trip when I was in school.

I find myself in a similar situation with most adults too. Sometimes a conversation about sport will arise and I'll mention that I play/watch tennis and I'm looked at like I have two heads. Most people have to ask twice like: "you play tennis?!". Others are just stunned and don't know what to say.

There definitely needs to be more promotion of the sport in places that have clubs. And probably a separate thread too, I think we've well and truly hijacked this one haha.

the_monkey

True , I remember playing a really good player from Sutton TC (or Clontarf ?) anyway he said the same, the kids are really good but they get drawn to Golf or Rugby around their teens and then might come back to tennis in their twenties, so they are really good - but no where near pro.

All it needs is one Irish person to hit the top 100 , and do something big -
thats why it was such a shame a few years back when Conor Niland
missed out on the 2nd round match with Federer at Wimbledon - 4-1 up in the 5th .... such a shame ... that would have really gotten kids into the sport I think.


People follow winners, hammer throwing would be popular if Ireland had a good Olympic team .

Takingiteasy

I always thought that too. - If Conor Niland had won that match and had set up a match on centre court against Federer it would have been great for Irish tennis.
The atmosphere was very good for the match against Mannarino. And he came sooo close, but unfortunately not to be.

RosyLily

Good debate going on here. Moved to separate thread.

RosyLily

I remember the Niland-Marrarino match. Such amazing support for him that it's kinda disappointing Ireland has no-one else to cheer for. I definitely agree that Federer-Niland on Centre would have done great things for Irish tennis. Probably more than anything else before.

Many people find tennis boring. I get the excuse "oooh, nothing happens for aaages in a tennis match".:rolleyes: I can these people idiots!:p

There's 4 tarmac courts at a school near me. They are usually used to play rounders or as a smoking ground. *sigh*

I'd take tennis over any other sport any day of the week.

Takingiteasy

RosyLily wrote: »

I'd take tennis over any other sport any day of the week.

We'll it'd be a close one between that and hurling.

Well now i think its up to the Tennis Ireland Association to get there act together and promote the sport.
When you see the way Squash and Badminton are organised in this country - they are brilliant! Tennis - Rubbish organisation and promotion.

If you go around any racquet club in the country you'll see posters from Squash and Badminton Associations showing how the game is played, techniques, etc... You'll see printed league tables and printed tournament listings.
What do get from Tennis Ireland???
The only time I ever hear of them is the "Capitation Fee" when you enter a tournament....

ShriekingSheet

Really interesting thread.

I've recently joined a tennis club in Dublin. Though I've played a range of sports competitively, and still do in golf, the tennis club was very much a social decision. The city centre location, apres-tennis craic in the bar, and it being a sport I could viably play with my better half were all huge drivers that no other sport could really measure up to. Tennis is a brilliant option for me and many like me.

But, not unlike how "soccer" in the States is seen as a fun kiddie sport, and not a serious one for adults, tennis in Ireland seems to be regarded as a hobby for 40 somethings, or a B or C sport for younger people like me who play something else more seriously. While something like golf also has a huge middle-age hobby element, there is also a very significant hard core junior and college level amateur circuit, which churns out world class players with some regularity. Could it be that the Golfing Union of Ireland are doing a better job than Tennis Ireland?

Lastly, most of us know of relatively elite sports people often play another sport at a potentially high level - so many succesful Rugby, GAA or Football players once made a decision to drop a sport, to focus on their one main game. You have to ask yourself, if as a 15 year old, Tennis was one of the two sports you excelled at, why would you choose it over the huge accolades involved in Rugby, or the community support/respect/fame that goes with GAA? Tennis just seems so thankless and rewardless in comparison. We've had the odd person in Ireland with the mental edge to be a world-beater at whatever they turned their hand to (imaging Paul O'Connel stuck to GAA only, O'Driscoll decided on Football or McIlroy chose Tennis) but there's no incentive whatsoever that I can see to tempt them toward Tennis.

RosyLily

Great points Sheet!

During the Olympics coverage on RTE, Bill asked the swimming commentators why Ireland didn't have more swimmers at international level. One of them made a point that association heads should look at a country with a similar sized population to Ireland, and see how they manage. You could do the same thing with tennis. Send a group from Tennis Ireland to the likes of New Zealand or Denmark and see how their national tennis association is run. Both countries are turning out some good players, e.g. Erakovic, Wozniacki, Nielsen.

All it takes is for one Irish player to do something great and newsworthy. Hopefully then tennis will become a more popular sport.

byronbay2

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

You have to ask yourself, if as a 15 year old, Tennis was one of the two sports you excelled at, why would you choose it over the huge accolades involved in Rugby, or the community support/respect/fame that goes with GAA? Tennis just seems so thankless and rewardless in comparison.

The other major factor you need to bear in mind is cost. To excel at tennis you need one-on-one coaching (from an early age) several times a week for years. This is fine if you are very wealthy or are a tennis coach yourself (i.e you can coach your own child) - otherwise you are looking at €40-60 per lesson, which can get quite expensive!!

Compare this to GAA/soccer/rugby where coaching is generally free and costs are kept as low as possible by the clubs to help the members. Also, of course, team games foster a spirit of comraderie and friendship that is more attractive to children than the solitary world of tennis, where you generally have no team-mates and everyone of your own age-group is "the competiton".

Further to previous posts, any Irish player is at a huge disadvantage to their European/American peers because of the weather and facilities here but also because the pool of talent is so small that you do not get the high-level competition good players need to improve. If you do want to play abroad, of course, it is always at your own expense, which can get quite expensive!! I would love to know what % of Tennis Ireland's income goes on salaries and what % goes to the clubs/elite players - I have heard some horror stories!

ShriekingSheet

byronbay2 wrote: »

The other major factor you need to bear in mind is cost. To excel at tennis you need one-on-one coaching (from an early age) several times a week for years. This is fine if you are very wealthy or are a tennis coach yourself (i.e you can coach your own child) - otherwise you are looking at €40-60 per lesson, which can get quite expensive!!

Compare this to GAA/soccer/rugby where coaching is generally free and costs are kept as low as possible by the clubs to help the members. Also, of course, team games foster a spirit of comraderie and friendship that is more attractive to children than the solitary world of tennis, where you generally have no team-mates and everyone of your own age-group is "the competiton".

Further to previous posts, any Irish player is at a huge disadvantage to their European/American peers because of the weather and facilities here but also because the pool of talent is so small that you do not get the high-level competition good players need to improve. If you do want to play abroad, of course, it is always at your own expense, which can get quite expensive!! I would love to know what % of Tennis Ireland's income goes on salaries and what % goes to the clubs/elite players - I have heard some horror stories!

Interesting thoughts, but a couple of your points don't hold up when compared to another minority sport like golf, rather than the big team sports.

In terms of cost, golf membership in my area is roughly double the price of tennis. And equipment is x10 or even x 15 more. Lessons are equally important in golf, and pretty much exactly the same price.

Weatherwise, an Irish golfer is certainly more negatively affected than an Irish tennis player. I can tell you myself that golf courses are closed more than tennis courts, and it's far more miserable spending 4 hours in miserable conditions, without any kind of running involved to get warm, compared to charging around a tennis court with some shelter from the wind.

The point being of course, that despite all the above, we still produce a lot of great golfers versus tennis players.

You're spot on though when you mention GAA/Football etc. The low cost of participation, social benefits of the team games and association with the top level game you see on TV all makes for a big draw. Again though, there are a fair few elite teens choosing golf over these sexier sports, which I don't think is happening in tennis. That could esily be more down to McIlroy/Woods etc, than good work by the GUI though. Maybe if Tennis had a McIlroy, things would be different.

A good point was made on the Golf Forum that Golf has a far smaller Global player pool than Tennis. While Ireland is a small country, we're a big country as far as Golf or Rugby participation is concerned - hence we do well. Tennis is far broader than Golf or Rugby.

youtube!

RosyLily wrote: »

I remember the Niland-Marrarino match. Such amazing support for him that it's kinda disappointing Ireland has no-one else to cheer for. I definitely agree that Federer-Niland on Centre would have done great things for Irish tennis. Probably more than anything else before.

Many people find tennis boring. I get the excuse "oooh, nothing happens for aaages in a tennis match".:rolleyes: I can these people idiots!:p

There's 4 tarmac courts at a school near me. They are usually used to play rounders or as a smoking ground. *sigh*

I'd take tennis over any other sport any day of the week.

Who knows it could even have been a grudge match considering Niland has actually played and beaten Federer before!

byronbay2

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Weatherwise, an Irish golfer is certainly more negatively affected than an Irish tennis player. I can tell you myself that golf courses are closed more than tennis courts, and it's far more miserable spending 4 hours in miserable conditions, without any kind of running involved to get warm, compared to charging around a tennis court with some shelter from the wind.

I disagree - you can't play tennis in the rain (and it is pointless playing in wind) but you can play golf in any weather, assuming the course is open. Even if the course is closed, you can go to the range and practice. Also, the vagaries of the weather and the wonderful variety of excellent courses we have here force Irish golfers to be creative in their shot-making, which conceivably gives them an advantage over players from countries with more serene climates and "soft" courses.

Regarding your other points: yes, golf is a remarkable exception to the "expensive sports don't thrive in Ireland" rule but the GUI (in contrast to Tennis Ireland) does a great job of promoting the sport and fostering young talent coming through. Competitive tennis in Ireland really is a sad case, (although living near DCU would certainly give you a big advantage over your Irish peers) with the outstanding young talent we have falling further and further behind British and European players due to lack of investment in infrastructure and coaching.

Rob2D

byronbay2 wrote: »

The other major factor you need to bear in mind is cost. To excel at tennis you need one-on-one coaching (from an early age) several times a week for years.

Nonsense. In this day and age it's easy for any kid/parent to get free lessons from any number of online sources. Couple this with watching as many matches as possible with plenty time spent practicing on the courts and any kid could become good enough to get noticed if they want it hard enough.

Real talent will always shine through, coach or no. Some people are put on this earth for the sole purpose of hitting a tennis ball. It just comes back around to the real problem of getting the kids on the courts in the first place. If we can do that, then eventually a McIlroy of tennis would appear.

byronbay2 wrote: »

I disagree - you can't play tennis in the rain (and it is pointless playing in wind)

I can tell you, in the last week alone I've played in rain, wind AND snow! Just put a jacket on with a hood and man the f**k up!;)

RosyLily

If we had a Mcilroy equivalent in tennis it'd be great. Federer, Djokovic and Nadal have done great things for tennis in their countries.

the_monkey

youtube! wrote: »

Who knows it could even have been a grudge match considering Niland has actually played and beaten Federer before!

he has ?

not at ATP level ?

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N349&oId=

byronbay2

Rob2D wrote: »

Nonsense. In this day and age it's easy for any kid/parent to get free lessons from any number of online sources.

I was beginning to think I'd never get the chance to do this on Boards but (as my dear old Mammy told me innumerable times) all things come to he who waits: :rolleyes:

youtube!

the_monkey wrote: »

he has ?

not at ATP level ?

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N349&oId=

Never said it was at ATP level , As it happens it was an under 14 s boys tournament but still he has beaten Fed , as Michael Caine would say ..... " not a lot of people know that ". Obviously I was joking about it being a grudge match !

the_monkey

very interesting indeed !!

Elisedal

The main problem is lack of indoor courts. I live and play in Sweden and every small town has indoor courts. This helps developing players(juniors) to play before school and it doesn´t matter about he weather. Previous poster saying that he plays in all types of weather well fine but nobody enjoys that especially if you playing Premier or Grade 1 where results are important. Tennis Ireland are a disgrace.At the recent World Team Championships the players selected for Ireland had to pay their own way and in fact had to pay for their tracksuit. Shambolic.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Something I suggested when discussing Irish sports performance in general during the Olympics was the use of the US College system to further athletes. Most colleges have tennis programs, even the smallest of them probably have better facilities than we have here. Most offer scholarships which would take care of the cost issue.
Four years spent playing tennis and training in top facilities could only be good for the players.
The problem is keeping them interested in the sport until they get to college age. As with most sports kids tend to drift away from them once they hit their teens and other activities seem more inviting. Which is where Tennis Ireland *should* be working to keep any talent interested.

SLenihan

Look at the GAA grounds, that the national sport and the state of them. There is no investment in tennis as a sport or in sport in general in ireland. Thats why we really dont produce olympic stars as for tennis!!!!!! Seriously!!!!! If they cant get the national sports right!!!

dizzyg

Another really interesting perspective by James here, that seems to fit in with the conversation.

http://jamesmcgeetennis.com/2013/06/24/financing-the-tour

micko2010

Notice that Tennis Ireland is organising a "national tennis day" on saturday looking for prospective members to try out their local clubs. Wonder if this will be a success?

Agree with previous posters who discussed the lack of investment. It really is sad how poorly sport is funded in this country given its importance and the benefits it can have. The benefits are huge and diverse such as saving on healthcare, increased tourism, social aspects it really is endless yet funding is so restricted! Tennis is a sport which could definitely be doing with more investment especially facilities wise as weather places such a big role.

mickmackey1

micko2010 wrote: »

Notice that Tennis Ireland is organising a "national tennis day" on saturday

Won't everybody be watching the ladies final? :pac:

Calvin and Hobbes

Being stalking this forum for ages since the start of Wimbledon (the only time of year when I really watch tennis) and finally going to put my two cents on this issue....

First of all, the only sports in the media is intercounty gaelic, rugby (leinster, munster and Ireland) and English Premier league. A massive part of Irish sporting culture is based outside of ireland. So every sport not only has to compete with other domestic sports for coverage but also with the presence of a foreign league, basically stunting the growth of all domestic sport, which is a problem really only faced in Ireland.Tennis is pretty much unheard of in Ireland outside of Wimbledon, even then most people watch it on BBC.

From reading about it, the main problem for tennis in ireland is getting a high number of people playing. I have no experience of going to a high level tennis competition in Ireland, but i assume it has low crowds. I think playing in front of crowds is the best of attracting sportsmen and women into the game and staying with it. For example in my county, many underage players choose gaelic over soccer because as even if they play a minor final or lower championship semi final their could be a crowd of between 2000 to 5000. Obvious not the main reason for the weakness of irish tennis, and crowds arent going to magically appear but i think its a bigger challenge to most irish sports than people imagine

Rob2D

Getting people to watch is always going to be tough. Tennis is very boring unless you know what you're looking at.