What would you do?

okidoki987

Somebody asked me to have a bet for them with a certain English bookmaker.
He wanted £10 e/w at EP 7/1, Bet placed at 7/1, horse won at 4/1!
Went onto my account to check the balance (e/w was 1/5 odds).
I expected to see £84 return but instead was showing £83 excluding stake.
All the details of the bet were correct.
Should I ask them?

DB74

How did you get €73 from a 4/1 bet?

Each-way 1/5 odds should return €68
Each-way 1/4 odds should return €70

Was the bet placed at 7/1 or 4/1?

okidoki987

Typo
Changed to correct figures.
Just can't figure out how they get £83 instead of £84?

DB74

Were the winnings €83.13 exactly by any chance? If so it was probably a Rule 4 adjustment which could actually increase the each-way terms if the number of runners makes the place part 1/4 instead of 1/5

Bet placed at 7/1 using 1/5 odds returns €84, as you stated

However a Rule 4 of 5% which reduces the no of runners to 7 instead of 8 would then change to

Win part = 7 x 95% = 6.65/1
Place part = 6.65/4 = 1.66/1

You win €66.50 for the win portion and €16.63 for the place part giving a total win of €83.13

restingpilgrim

DB74 wrote: »

It is no wonder so many bookmakers clean up. A 10 euro each way bet returns 104 euros with 1/5 odds a place.

Win 70 plus 10 stake back
Place 14 plus 10 stake back

Also if you go to the account history and look for the settlement it should tell you if there was a rule 4 applied . Likely that you took an early price and there was a rule 4 . The rule 4 looks like 25 per cent to me.

This works as win 70 less 25 per cent 52.50 euros plus 10 stake and place 14 less 25 per cent 10.5 euros plus 10 stake is a return of 83 euros

DB74

restingpilgrim wrote: »

It is no wonder so many bookmakers clean up. A 10 euro each way bet returns 104 euros with 1/5 odds a place.

Win 70 plus 10 stake back
Place 14 plus 10 stake back

Also if you go to the account history and look for the settlement it should tell you if there was a rule 4 applied . Likely that you took an early price and there was a rule 4 . The rule 4 looks like 25 per cent to me.

This works as win 70 less 25 per cent 52.50 euros plus 10 stake and place 14 less 25 per cent 10.5 euros plus 10 stake is a return of 83 euros

It is no wonder so many bookmakers clean up when people can't read

As per the OP's original post

"I expected to see £84 return but instead was showing £83 excluding stake."

restingpilgrim

DB74 wrote: »

It is no wonder so many bookmakers clean up when people can't read

As per the OP's original post

"I expected to see £84 return but instead was showing £83 excluding stake."

From your wonderful example of above I see you are full of knowledge on the subject

DB74

Well given that we were discussing returns EXCLUDING STAKE I see no issue whatsoever

Well done on getting the quote part of your post right that time BTW

restingpilgrim

DB74 wrote: »

Well given that we were discussing returns EXCLUDING STAKE I see no issue whatsoever

Well done on getting the quote part of your post right that time BTW

My apologies I calculated the balance including stake to be 83. Now all we have to see is if the original poster made a mistake as by my reckoning here is no rule that could have left him with a return of 83 plus his stake unless they have a bizarre rule that charges you 1 if you back a winner !

DB74

Yeah it's a bit like Countdown. I can't get closer than €83.13 and even then, a lot of the online bookies don't impose a 5% Rule 4 so just have to wait and see.

okidoki987

Cheers lads.

Had a look, 11 runners so e/w places never changed.
There were 4 non runners but there's no mention of a rule 4 on the bet slip
or the results from the Racing Post page?

Here's a copy of the betting slip
It actually won at 3/1 but that should have no bearing on the payout.

3/21/2013 1:24:11 PM 14/
14 W:10.00 S:10.00 Single Cork 17:05/Outright Betting Clar Na Mionn 7/1 Won C €20.00 €83.00

restingpilgrim

okidoki987 wrote: »

Cheers lads.

Had a look, 11 runners so e/w places never changed.
There were 4 non runners but there's no mention of a rule 4 on the bet slip
or the results from the Racing Post page?

Here's a copy of the betting slip
It actually won at 3/1 but that should have no bearing on the payout.

3/21/2013 1:24:11 PM 14/
14 W:10.00 S:10.00 Single Cork 17:05/Outright Betting Clar Na Mionn 7/1 Won C €20.00 €83.00

The rule 4 would be dictated by the 4 horses prices when they withdrawn, I see you did the bet at 1.24 and it would only be horses withdrawn after this time that were in the market when you did the bet that will affect the amount of the rule 4. Not sure where you can check this info. I do know one irish bookmaker I have had problems with have applied rule 4 to prices that were already adjusted. As you did the bet fairly late might be worth trying to find when the horses were withdrawn and the price your bookmaker was offering. It is your own bookmakers price that will dictate the rule 4 to be applied

I have found historical data for uk flat meetings and the times of the withdrawal and betfair deductions . struggling to find data for the cork meeting on that date

restingpilgrim

It might be worth posting on the horseracing forum to see if any of them know were to find the data you woud need