GPS Watch with Heart Rate Variability

Gringo78

Looking for a GPS watch that does Heart Rate Variability and it seems the Polar RC3 is maybe the only one?? Anyone aware of any alternatives (or ones in the pipeline)

sconhome

An updated version is about to hit the shelves RC3 which will feature altitude data on the watch too. Hold off on a purchase for a couple of weeks.

Have a look at the polarpersonaltrainer.com website and the training load features in particular.

Krusty_Clown

I think rom was experimenting with something that recorded HRV. Might be worth dropping him a PM. I may be mistaken, but think it may have been an iPhone dongle paired to a polar HRM.

ted1

The forerunner 110 goes GPS and comes with a heart rate monitor not sure if hrv is different

Gringo78

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think rom was experimenting with something that recorded HRV. Might be worth dropping him a PM. I may be mistaken, but think it may have been an iPhone dongle paired to a polar HRM.

Yeah, the ithlete dongle. Unfortunately I have neither dongle nor compatible heart strap so this would be a costly option for just this functionality.

Polar now have the H7 Bluetooth low energy HR strap which does HRV but its only compatible with iPhone 4S / 5 and newer android devices - none of which I have. Also an option though as there's nothing wrong with my garmin 305

Gringo78

ted1 wrote: »

The forerunner 110 goes GPS and comes with a heart rate monitor not sure if hrv is different

Garmin are still struggling with basic heart rate functionality - HRV not on their radar yet

sconhome

Polar watches featuring the Zoneoptimiser or OwnZone are what you should be considering for HRV; FT60 and up, RS100, RS300, RC3, RX range

Krusty_Clown

amphkingwest wrote: »

Polar watches featuring the Zoneoptimiser or OwnZone are what you should be considering for HRV; FT60 and up, RS100, RS300, RC3, RX range

Do they give you actual HRV values, or is it just Polar's interpretation of whether you are training too hard/too light/etc.? I'd rather have the raw data to interpret myself, than have an algorithm that interprets the data for me. It bothers me when I hear of programs that will guide your training, like OwnZone, ZoneOptimizer, Training Effect (Garmin), etc. etc.

sconhome

Own zone and Zoneoptimiser work by checking HRV within a scale of parameters.

Over 2 minutes with HR between 90 -110 (not sure of the actual values so indicating) followed by 2 mins at 110 -125 the watches measure the variability and advise adjusting zones if necessary .

It is algorithmic (spelling?) in its nature and I've no idea how it works other than its measuring changes in rhythm at the differing work loads and applying stuff to the data to work it out.

From Polar forum:
[quote:}OwnZone
The OwnZone uses the heart rate variability to determine the OwnZone. Polar CS100 measures the HR and the point where the HRV disapperas. The determination basically finds the spot in HRV with gradually increasing exercise intensity (HR response) where it (HRV) disappears. This is at about 65% HRmax which is at about the aerobic threshold HR. And this limitation can be found in 2 - 3 minutes in some cases.[/quote]

Also a great blog piece on how accurately your Polar RS800 can be used for measuring heart rhythms (not my blog):

How To Use A Polar RS800CX Heart Rate Monitor To Record Your Heart Data and Ectopic Activity

The Training Load indicator is on the PolarPersonalTrainer.com website and gives you an indication of your readiness to train based on accumulated training stress loads.

All of it is really just a guide and advanced athletes probably have other means of TSS calculations.

EDIT: Sorry KC, should have pointed out they're two separate features. ZoneOptimiser & Training Load

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think rom was experimenting with something that recorded HRV. Might be worth dropping him a PM. I may be mistaken, but think it may have been an iPhone dongle paired to a polar HRM.

Yeah I was. I was recommended it by a sport scientist that bought all available options and compared them with the accuracy of the expensive setup which is in the 10k region.

Having been sick on a few occasions I have found that this gave me a reading that I needed to rest where resting HR didn't. Of course I ignored it and paid for it and got sick. The thingy is compatible with iphone or android.

I have the adidas, polar and wahoo bluetooth HRM. I don't know how they could be accurate for HRv. I test these sort of things with low level bluetooth packet loggers and they give you a reading every second approx. An analogue device like ANT or polar analogue I presume they send each beat. As HRv is essentially the variance between beats I don't know how a bluetooth LE device could be accurate. Now I could be totally wrong but this is what I presume.

I stopped it for the last week but will start using it again but I personally think that it is more effective that resting HR. Now currently I have an 18 month waking me up 3/4 times a night and this shows up in the HRv and I would never get any training done if I listened to it but I used it before Ballycotton and it got me to rest up much more than I would normally and it gave me good numbers on the morning of the race and it was reflected in my performance. From my use of the thing I find HRv tells you are run down before heart rate by about a day so.

Having used restwise also for a bit I think that using a single marker on how recovered you are is a bad idea so probably best to use a few.
I fill out a questionnaire that rates the following out of 10 each morning.
Hours slept
Sleep quality
Energy level
Mood state
Yesterday's performance
Appetite
Sickness
Muscle soreness
Injury
Urine Shade
Resting HR
HRv

It generates a recovery score out of 100.

PS: I was recommended the http://myithlete.com/ by a sports scientist who owns a RC3. He wouldn't have bought a third party one if the Polar one cut it. btw I use the polar analogue strap with mine and it's very good.

sconhome

ROM, firstly to do justice to the comparison I'm going to give the link a thorough reading through, but on first scan the ithlete seems to be a tailored app for the purpose of HRV measurement and then gives you recommendations based on the readings.

The Polar ZoneOptimiser does exactly this. Measuring the variability of the heatbeats and guiding your zones rather than whether you should train or not. The Training Load indicator is there to advise on the readiness to train.

The better Polar systems will operate on 5mhz and the link above to the Polar RS800 shows capability of milisecond recording. Units with R-R interval recording capability are ideal for the accurate calculation of HRV (the analogue transmitters). The RCX5 features a hybrid transmitter (which is why it gives HR in water) with analogue radio and WIND.

I take your point on per second recording and can only assume that Polar have worked out some system of complicated maths to make it reasonably accurate.

I would be interested in a side by side comparison of the features of the ZoneOptimiser and ithlete app ie work the two units in tandem for a week or two to compare results.

TFBubendorfer

amphkingwest wrote: »

I take your point on per second recording and can only assume that Polar have worked out some system of complicated maths to make it reasonably accurate.

I don't work in sports technology, but I would interpret "1 second recording" in such a way that the HR strap sends the HR data to the watch every second. It still can measure your HR at any other interval, and the protocol used to transmit the data would be irrelevant.

That's just my own interpretation of what 1 second interval means.

sconhome

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I don't work in sports technology, but I would interpret "1 second recording" in such a way that the HR strap sends the HR data to the watch every second. It still can measure your HR at any other interval, and the protocol used to transmit the data would be irrelevant.

Makes sense, sends a burst packet of data every second which could be made up of milisecond data points (?)

rom

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I don't work in sports technology, but I would interpret "1 second recording" in such a way that the HR strap sends the HR data to the watch every second. It still can measure your HR at any other interval, and the protocol used to transmit the data would be irrelevant.

That's just my own interpretation of what 1 second interval means.

HRv is measuring the difference between the beats.
Say your hr is
.......................
Or
.. . .. ... . .. . .. .
The difference between the beats rather than being like a metronome is it. If your hr is like a metronome then its bad. Reading the data packets from bluetooth LE hrm which only send your current hr in metronomic intervals of one second I cant see how the can work this out. Hense the reason why they use an analogue strap which would send every beat. Now I could be wrong too but this is just a guess as there would be no reason to invent a dongle if the BT LE hrm worked.

Gringo78

rom wrote: »

HRv is measuring the difference between the beats.
Say your hr is
.......................
Or
.. . .. ... . .. . .. .
The difference between the beats rather than being like a metronome is it. If your hr is like a metronome then its bad. Reading the data packets from bluetooth LE hrm which only send your current hr in metronomic intervals of one second I cant see how the can work this out. Hense the reason why they use an analogue strap which would send every beat. Now I could be wrong too but this is just a guess as there would be no reason to invent a dongle if the BT LE hrm worked.

Ithlete have said they will be supporting the polar H7 Bluetooth strap shortly without the dongle hence it must work.

rom

Gringo78 wrote: »

Ithlete have said they will be supporting the polar H7 Bluetooth strap shortly without the dongle hence it must work.

Need to contact them to explain it to me so as it only gives data once per sec then again I have never logged the data offthe analogue devices.

TFBubendorfer

rom wrote: »

HRv is measuring the difference between the beats.
Say your hr is
.......................
Or
.. . .. ... . .. . .. .
The difference between the beats rather than being like a metronome is it. If your hr is like a metronome then its bad. Reading the data packets from bluetooth LE hrm which only send your current hr in metronomic intervals of one second I cant see how the can work this out. Hense the reason why they use an analogue strap which would send every beat. Now I could be wrong too but this is just a guess as there would be no reason to invent a dongle if the BT LE hrm worked.

I know what HRV is, rom. My point was that in my interpretation the 1 second interval refers to the the amount of time the HR strap sends data to the watch, not the frequency it uses to actually measure your heart rate. Think about it, if it measured your HR only once per second, how could it come up with heart rates of e.g. 147.

rom

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I know what HRV is, rom. My point was that in my interpretation the 1 second interval refers to the the amount of time the HR strap sends data to the watch, not the frequency it uses to actually measure your heart rate. Think about it, if it measured your HR only once per second, how could it come up with heart rates of e.g. 147.

I know but the Bluetooth LE hrms actually send 150 or whatever your HR. the watch doesnt work it out as ichecked it with testing desktop software.

Gringo78

rom wrote: »

I know but the Bluetooth LE hrms actually send 150 or whatever your HR. the watch doesnt work it out as ichecked it with testing desktop software.

This explains it http://myithlete.com/forum/forum/getting-the-most-from-ithlete/show/697

The polar h7 sends both HR and RR interval whereas other Bluetooth LE monitors only send HR in the way you said above.

Thinking now I'll upgrade the iPhone and buy the H7 - have a garmin 305 which GPS wise is perfect so I'll make do.

Next challenge is to try to find the time to overtrain to make it worthwhile.....no danger of that at the moment.

sconhome

Gringo, if you're going that direction use Polar Beat app with the H7, you'll get to use the ppt.com website that way for Training Load too.

sconhome

Funny how things come together when you least expect it.

My BIL stayed with us over Easter for a visit and we got chatting about his work as a performance coach and eventually got around to discussing stresors and their effect on performance, recovery etc and HRV came up.

Well he produced a little USB device that clips to the ear, plugs into the computer and a bit of software measures your HR alongside your breathing rate. There's a little side window that guides you on a breath pace.

Normally this would be measured over a period and there is a unit that can monitor over 24 hours showing reaction to various stress, work, phone calls, family and so on.

Essentially it's a device to help you recognise your body reaction to stress, by measuring your HRV and to help teach you to zone into your balanced place. As a sports person, using it will let you know how recovered you are in the same way as the apps and devices spoken about above.

The end result was a deeper awareness of how and why measuring HRV is a benefit and a better understanding of the purposes behind it.

It meant the next day I used the Polar Zoneoptimizer in the way it was supposed to be used. Digging around Polar and any unit which measures R-R intervals will give you HRV data through OwnZone or ZoneOptimizer.

So to give a definitive answer to the OP, Polar RC3 is a GPS watch which can give you HRV feedback. The other Polar's can do HRV too but feature GPS pods as add-ons.

I'll stick up more info on the gadget when I have it.