Future frame/component materials in cycling?

Seaneh

Howya lads.

Right now the lightest bikes are being built with Carbon frames and component and they are pretty cool. The fact that we can make a bike well under 6kg is impressive.

But what other materials are bikes likely to be made form in the future?

What about Graphene?
It's 100times stronger than steel (at the same density) and completely flexible so easily manipulated into any shape, and if we were to creat a weave from it, like carbonfibre we could set it with epoxies and the like to create something just as light (if not lighter) than carbonfibre but a lot stronger. I have now idea of the dampening properties but still, it's a cool thought.


I know people like Woodelo are making bespoke frames from woods like Ash and bamboo which is also cool but what else is being used to make bikes these days?

DirkVoodoo

Graphene looks to be very expensive to produce, and current applications are using Graphene films that are one layer of atoms thick and still cost mega bucks. It seems to mostly be used for thin films and membranes in separating gases, batteries, etc.

I don't think using it for structural applications, where you would need more than a few (!) atomic layers is viable for anything other than space/military aerospace for the foreseeable future.

I'd say carbon-fibre is here for a while yet, but like you said more sustainable and eco-friendly materials and processes will probably become more popular.

I'd say the biggest innovations for commuters will be in transmission: electronic groupsets, battery assisted drivetrains...

But really it would be better directed at the bike industry.

mirv

If you learn about the production process of graphene you'll quite quickly understand that it's made in very, very, minute quantities. True graphene effectively a two dimensional material on the atomic scale, which means it is literally quite hard to make thick as you'll need an tremendously massive amount of layers to build up any macroscopic thickness.

I know that some of the guys doing their PhDs would exfoilate (use sellotape to peel) graphite layers and then examine the exfoilated samples under powerful microscopes and spectroscopes mulitple times in order to record a trace reading of graphene. The stronger than steel thing is really simplifying scientific data down to a point where it's digestible by the public but taken out of context, a Daily Star or Metro type of science.

Even carbon nanotubes are difficult to manufacture in any substantial quantity, and they're a far more mature technology. Basically the economies of scale of production will never allow it to be used for something as frivolous as bicycle frames.

It's more of a novel material which is useful for its electrical and chemical properties (think computer chips, solar cells, lasers and things that go pew pew) than for anything as 'simple' as building fancy structural tubes for their mechanical tensile strength. As much as the bike companies R&D would like to make you think, bike frames aren't rocket since and their budgets aren't huge. Engineering current materials to perform better is what's going to happen, or 'rediscovery' of old materials such as the wooden bikes being made.

Dotsie~tmp

Is there a weight limit on most carbon bikes? Can they support 100kg riders?

mirv

There's usually not a weight limit on the frames themselves, but often there's a weight limit on lightweight high end wheelsets. It's to do with impact resistance more than material strength.

Generally frames are over engineered for the purposes of cycling - a 100kg or heavier punter is going to put out feck all power compared to a pro cyclist so you won't overpower and bend a frame out of shape. It's sudden impacts such as hitting bumps and potholes, or failing to avoid them, and crashing which is more likely to destroy a frame.

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Is there a weight limit on most carbon bikes? Can they support 100kg riders?

Seaneh

mirv wrote: »

If you learn about the production process of graphene you'll quite quickly understand that it's made in very, very, minute quantities. True graphene effectively a two dimensional material on the atomic scale, which means it is literally quite hard to make thick as you'll need an tremendously massive amount of layers to build up any macroscopic thickness.

I know that some of the guys doing their PhDs would exfoilate (use sellotape to peel) graphite layers and then examine the exfoilated samples under powerful microscopes and spectroscopes mulitple times in order to record a trace reading of graphene. The stronger than steel thing is really simplifying scientific data down to a point where it's digestible by the public but taken out of context, a Daily Star or Metro type of science.

Even carbon nanotubes are difficult to manufacture in any substantial quantity, and they're a far more mature technology. Basically the economies of scale of production will never allow it to be used for something as frivolous as bicycle frames.

It's more of a novel material which is useful for its electrical and chemical properties (think computer chips, solar cells, lasers and things that go pew pew) than for anything as 'simple' as building fancy structural tubes for their mechanical tensile strength. As much as the bike companies R&D would like to make you think, bike frames aren't rocket since and their budgets aren't huge. Engineering current materials to perform better is what's going to happen, or 'rediscovery' of old materials such as the wooden bikes being made.

Well, there are far more reliable ways to produce graphene than with graphite filings and scotch tape, but yeah, it's expensive, and I wasn't saying it would be next week the stuff might be useable, but in 25-50-100 years, who knows? I know most of the major research for Graphene right now is in the areas of Supercapacitors and data storage devices etc but there are companies and institutes researching the possibility of using it in a mechanical capacity as well, which is interesting if nothing else.

And I know bike companies won't be the ones developing new materials, but I was wondering if there are any other materials being played around with at the moment that might in the future be usable in the bike industry for frame or component production?

mirv

I just think that the economies of scale will dictate that graphene will almost never see the light of day for macroscopic structures, so it's a complete pipe dream. Even carbon nanotube composites haven't really seen the light of day. Besides the weakness of carbon fibre as a frame material are the epoxies that bind it, not the strength of the reforcing fibre, and there's nearly no tangible benefits in overengineering one single component of a composite structure.

DirkVoodoo

If I could predict what the bike material of the future would be in 25 years time, I'd probably be sitting on a very lucrative patent.

I honestly don't think you're going to find those answers on the boards cycling forum and any guesses at exotic materials would be, eh...the realm of sci-fi.

transparent aluminium anyone?



(It only took about 30 years for it to move from Star Trek to real world military applications, although it's a ceramic!)

Anyway, point is (I think), that talking about exotic materials and their possible future applications will, as mentioned, depend on making them commercially viable. That is, being able to make them in sufficient quantities to sell them to anyone outside of DARPA.

mirv

Don't get me started on ceramic bearings. Those things are the one of the biggest gimmicks in the industry. As are the people who get duped into buying aero wheels as they sit bolt upright on the hoods with a stack of spacers under the stem and with a baggy jersey flapping in the wind. Misinformation and marketing are king!