Bank Accounts Private ! ,divorce ,separation

atkin

Hi,
What is the position with your bank account if your ex wife states in court that you have such an account. ? How easy is it to get a court order to show whats in the account. Does the bank inform you if such an order by way of a solicitors letter is sent .
I remember when my Father died the solicitor for his will sent a letter to the Bank of Ireland demanding details without my knowledge.The Bank did not inform me but when I complained. The answer was we have to act on such a letter.The money was not from crime or laundering.Bank privacy is just a myth I closed all accounts there and moved. They even tried to get a commission on moving the money to a new account .A representative attend my fathers funeral sympathized saying to contact if there was anything they could do.
The introduction of the European saving directive makes an account even less private. The situation in Cyprus is just testing the water to see the reaction of people to imposing a tax now 15% on savings.
I wonder is it back to under the mattress !!!

Peregrinus

atkin wrote: »

Hi,
What is the position with your bank account if your ex wife states in court that you have such an account. ? How easy is it to get a court order to show whats in the account. Does the bank inform you if such an order by way of a solicitors letter is sent .

Not easy. In the first instance the court will order you to disclose your bank account, and the balances on them. Only if there is some reason to think that you are not complying with the order can your spouse get an order addressed to the bank. It will not go well for you if, faced with such an order, the bank discloses that you do have an acocunt with them which you failed to disclose your self when ordered to do so.

atkin wrote: »

I remember when my Father died the solicitor for his will sent a letter to the Bank of Ireland demanding details without my knowledge.The Bank did not inform me but when I complained.

Why would the bank inform you? They're not your accounts. They are controlled by your father's executor, and if a solicitor acting behalf of the executor writes to the bank, the bank has no reason to question whether the solicitor was instructed to do so. If you are the executor and you feel that for some reason the letter should not have been written your beef is with your solicitor, not with your bank. If you are not the executor then it's none of your business.

atkin wrote: »

The answer was we have to act on such a letter.The money was not from crime or laundering.

So what? If it was your father's money, it's part of his estate, and his executor is responsible for it. If there's a solicitor acting for the executor, it would be negligent of them not to deal with it.

atkin wrote: »

Bank privacy is just a myth

Bankiing affairs are private to the customer (in this case, the executor) not private from the customer.

atkin

Your answer about the ex is what I expected .I just need a reminder.
The executor never contacted me about it .He was chosen by my Father as a loyal friend.
I have no reason to doubt him .
The Solicitor was a rogue but my hands were tied because of another matter.

Leave the executor aside,leave criminal laundering etc .
The customer is entitled surely to notification of any access activity to their account.
I will get that in writing from the Bank.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

Your answer about the ex is what I expected .I just need a reminder.
The executor never contacted me about it .He was chosen by my Father as a loyal friend.
I have no reason to doubt him .
The Solicitor was a rogue but my hands were tied because of another matter.

Leave the executor aside,leave criminal laundering etc .
The customer is entitled surely to notification of any access activity to their account.
I will get that in writing from the Bank.

Did they get access to your account? Why would the executor want access to your account?

atkin

The Solicitor wanted access to the account so as he could charge a larger fee.
There was another matter with him so I had to remain silent.
The result of dealing with the old family solicitor .He knew too much .

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

The Solicitor wanted access to the account so as he could charge a larger fee.
There was another matter with him so I had to remain silent.
The result of dealing with the old family solicitor .He knew too much .

A solicitor got access to your own personal account details with nothing more than a letter. This account was not you fathers or I assume a joint account. You should if the above is correct have made a number of complaints.

Pat Mustard

atkin wrote: »

Hi,
What is the position with your bank account if your ex wife states in court that you have such an account. ? How easy is it to get a court order to show whats in the account. Does the bank inform you if such an order by way of a solicitors letter is sent .
I remember when my Father died the solicitor for his will sent a letter to the Bank of Ireland demanding details without my knowledge.The Bank did not inform me but when I complained. The answer was we have to act on such a letter.The money was not from crime or laundering.Bank privacy is just a myth I closed all accounts there and moved. They even tried to get a commission on moving the money to a new account .A representative attend my fathers funeral sympathized saying to contact if there was anything they could do.
The introduction of the European saving directive makes an account even less private. The situation in Cyprus is just testing the water to see the reaction of people to imposing a tax now 15% on savings.
I wonder is it back to under the mattress !!!

If you have issues with the solicitors admistering the estate, why have you not taken the matter up with the executors who hired them?

atkin

My Father had the Will made with the Solicitor. The executor was only there to see the Will was carried out according to my Father's instructions.
The Solicitor got access to my Fathers accounts as he knew the accounts existed. I was trying also to avoid a probate tax which was then abolished after the Will was completed. I was not liable for Inheritance tax.
The moral is never reveal the existence of all Bank accounts to a solicitor.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

My Father had the Will made with the Solicitor. The executor was only there to see the Will was carried out according to my Father's instructions.
The Solicitor got access to my Fathers accounts as he knew the accounts existed. I was trying also to avoid a probate tax which was then abolished after the Will was completed. I was not liable for Inheritance tax.
The moral is never reveal the existence of all Bank accounts to a solicitor.

But the solicitor has to get access to any and all bank accounts of the testator. If he does not how can he advise on tax liabilities etc.you implied maybe I misunderstood) that the solicitor got access to you account, but it now seems clear it was you fathers. Not only in my opinion was that ok the solicitor would have been wrong not to.

All taxes all calculated if I remember on date of death, so if a tax was in exestiance on that date then it was due. If a solicitor did not do his job correctly and such a tax was not paid then that solicitor could face serious personal consequences. With the solicitor at the very least liable for the tax, penalties and charges. With a visit to the solicitors disciplinary tribunal as well.

Peregrinus

atkin wrote: »

My Father had the Will made with the Solicitor. The executor was only there to see the Will was carried out according to my Father's instructions.
The Solicitor got access to my Fathers accounts as he knew the accounts existed.

There's no breach of banking secrecy here. If the accounts were your fathers, then the executor was entitled and obliged to track them down, and deal with them according to the will. They are part of your father's estate, and the bank quite properly replied to the executor's quite proper queries, and quite properly did not inform because it was none of your business, and telling you about it would have been a breach of the bank's obligations to respect the privacy of its customer's business. Far from showing that we don't have banking secrecy in Ireland, in fact, your story shows that we do.

Your beef here, in fact, is that the executor, the solicitor and the bank all did their jobs properly, when you would have preferred if they hadn't. You wish they had cheated on taxes in order to maximise the share of the estate that would come to you. You can see, can't you, why nobody else on this board would find that a particularly sympathetic story? We're the mugs who have to make up on the shortfall when people cheat on their taxes.

atkin

Your beef here, in fact, is that the executor, the solicitor and the bank all did their jobs properly, when you would have preferred if they hadn't. You wish they had cheated on taxes in order to maximise the share of the estate that would come to you. You can see, can't you, why nobody else on this board would find that a particularly sympathetic story? We're the mugs who have to make up on the shortfall when people cheat on their taxes.[/QUOTE]

The reaction to this statement is to make the Will yourself and have the executor a trusted member of your family .I don't know why more do not opt this.
I paid probate tax that was abolished during the time the will was executed.
I think given the abuse, corruption and waste of public money in government makes you less likely to want to pay tax. What are we getting in return for our taxes there is no accountability .
You are probably a solicitor,civil servant or worse a politician with high and mighty morals that certainly do not mean anything to me.,

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

Your beef here, in fact, is that the executor, the solicitor and the bank all did their jobs properly, when you would have preferred if they hadn't. You wish they had cheated on taxes in order to maximise the share of the estate that would come to you. You can see, can't you, why nobody else on this board would find that a particularly sympathetic story? We're the mugs who have to make up on the shortfall when people cheat on their taxes.

The reaction to this statement is to make the Will yourself and have the executor a trusted member of your family .I don't know why more do not opt this.
I paid 15 K probate tax that was abolished during the time the will was executed.
I think given the abuse, corruption and waste of public money in government makes you less likely to want to pay tax. What are we getting in return for our taxes there is no accountability .
You are probably a solicitor,civil servant or worse a politician with high and mighty morals that certainly do not mean anything to me.,

By all means avoid as much tax as you want. You take the risk that's fine. But you can not expect others to get involved in any scheme to not pay tax. They followed the law. They did everything above board.

atkin

I am going to pay all taxes without question in the future .I SURRENDER !!
I have lost the will to do anything or save as it might be taxed .
Remain on the dole,live in rent allowance accommodation,get free legal aid and medical card.
Let the mugs pay for it.

Peregrinus

atkin wrote: »

I am going to pay all taxes without question in the future .I SURRENDER !!
I have lost the will to do anything or save as it might be taxed .
Remain on the dole,live in rent allowance accommodation,get free legal aid and medical card.
Let the mugs pay for it.

Well, yes, if you have no moral qualms about cheating on your tax, you'll obviously have no moral qualms about cheating on social welfare, and presumably will applaud those who do. You are confirming all our negative impressions of you!

But your morals are your own affair. So far as the point of this thread is concerned, the fact that your father's executor sought and obtained details of your father's bank accounts without you hearing anything about it at the time doesn't show that we don't have banking secrecy in this country; it shows that we do. That's why you didn't hear about it.

atkin

You presume a lot !!!!
I did not cheat on any tax .I just complained . I have a right to social welfare more than you.
I worked for 38 years paid tax .PRSI .I will pay property tax ,water tax and whatever tax the gov dreams up top collect money.

'Our impressions of you ' why is this a high moral group targeting me ?
Continue yourselves, applaud each other on how good upstanding citizens you are.
The original post was about bank accounts and ex wife's .The thread has gone off track.

There is nothing more to be said on this issue.

schemingbohemia

atkin wrote: »

You presume a lot !!!!
I did not cheat on any tax .I just complained . I have a right to social welfare more than you.
I worked for 38 years paid tax .PRSI .I will pay property tax ,water tax and whatever tax the gov dreams up top collect money.

'Our impressions of you ' why is this a high moral group targeting me ?
Continue yourselves, applaud each other on how good upstanding citizens you are.
The original post was about bank accounts and ex wife's .The thread has gone off track.

There is nothing more to be said on this issue.

You brought it off track with your rant about an executor of a will having access to your father's bank accounts without informing you - who had no right to be informed.

atkin

Well its just back to the point of making a will yourself and get 2 independent witnesses.. QED.
What my children will inherit is way below the rates at present anyhow for tax .
I don't need to pay a solicitor for this in future.
There is no law to prevent you having a joint account and the survivor gets the money.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

An executor not the solicitor was approved by my Father to carry his instructions and keep me informed.

And did the executor instruct the solicitor. So your issue is with the executor for not keeping you informed. So!

atkin

ResearchWill wrote: »

And did the executor instruct the solicitor. So your issue is with the executor for not keeping you informed. So!

So can we get back to Bank accounts privacy and ex wife's .

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

So can we get back to Bank accounts privacy and ex wife's .

Simple answer without a court order no one including ex or solicitor should get access to bank account. If they do make a complaint. But to be honest not too difficult to get order, if a bank account is not disclosed on affidavit, but latter evidence turns up that it exists then an order should be easy enough to get ex-partie, very difficult to over turn the order if account was not disclosed, as it should have been

atkin

Takes so long to get an answer .THX

234

atkin wrote: »

There is no law to prevent you having a joint account and the survivor gets the money.

Actually there is a string of cases on this issue. If one of the beneficiaries or the exceutor ever took this to court and it looked like the joint account was used as means of circumventing the formalities that attend testamentary dispositions (wills) then the court will place the funds back into the residue of the estate.

Peregrinus

atkin wrote: »

Takes so long to get an answer .THX

I answered that question in post #2 in this thread.

atkin

234 wrote: »

Actually there is a string of cases on this issue. If one of the beneficiaries or the exceutor ever took this to court and it looked like the joint account was used as means of circumventing the formalities that attend testamentary dispositions (wills) then the court will place the funds back into the residue of the estate.

I am in the middle of a divorce so all these issues come into play.


How can you find out if a a court order is issued, from your solicitor or bank ?

Peregrinus

atkin wrote: »

I am in the middle of a divorce so all these issues come into play.

How can you find out if a a court order is issued, from your solicitor or bank ?

From your solicitor. He will know when the order is applied for (because he will be given notice of the application) and will - or should, at any rate - seek your instructions as to whether you want to oppose the application, or consent to it.

Then, if and when the order is actually made, your solicitor should tell you that that has happened. You may, of course, be present in court when the application is considered.