Crash and Consequences

harringtonp

A club mate of mine was racing in the A4 last Sunday in Westport. He was at the front within the last km but realised he was running out of steam and decided not to contest the sprint. He pulled over to the left hand side to allow others pass him easily which is what most did.

However one guy decided for whatever reason to try and pass him on the inside and completely took him out. This guy stayed up but my club mate hit the ground hard, cracking his helmet, breaking his collar bone and damaging his hip to the extent that he was on crutches for a day or two. It was only a few hundred metres from the line but the perpetrator never came back to see how he was.

We all know crashes happen in races, whether we like it or not its part of the sport. However there is a huge difference between 2 guys out of the saddle bumping of each other or a touching of wheels causing a crash and what happened on Sunday. The former are in the accident category and however silly the accident may be, they are still accidents.

What happened my club mate was blatant disregard, you could put it in the category of knowingly taking a man out in an attempt to get a point or 2.

Others sports have checks and balances, take rugby citing's for example, but there seems to be little consequences for ones actions in cycling.

Does anybody know if there ever has been follow ups in these scenarios ? Has a cyclist for example ever decided to press charges using others in the race as witnesses ? Would the gardai view incidents as these as being any different for example to a fellow on the street punching another one in the face (for little or no reason) and taking out most of this teeth... Or a driver passing a cyclist in a bad sport, knocking him off his bike and driving on...

ericzeking

My understanding is that, and more experienced racers may correct me, that if you are not contesting the sprint or you have blown up, you sit up but still maintain your line as opposed to moving across the road to pull in. Faster moving riders will then come around you, rather than you unexpectedly cutting across them.
So if I am correct your buddy seems to be very much in the wrong, though as I said I haven't been at it long and other guys might give better advice

petethedrummer

I'm not blaming your mate at all but in that scenario I'd move waaaayyy over to the right, even though it's against the rules. I wouldn't trust a bunch of A4s to go round me, especially mid-sprint.


Edit: Misread the OP. Was he at the head of the bunch or off out on his own? If he was at the front of the bunch then he doesn't have much to complain about.

tunney

harringtonp wrote: »

A club mate of mine was racing in the A4 last Sunday in Westport. He was at the front within the last km but realised he was running out of steam and decided not to contest the sprint. He pulled over to the left hand side to allow others pass him easily which is what most did.

However one guy decided for whatever reason to try and pass him on the inside and completely took him out. This guy stayed up but my club mate hit the ground hard, cracking his helmet, breaking his collar bone and damaging his hip to the extent that he was on crutches for a day or two. It was only a few hundred metres from the line but the perpetrator never came back to see how he was.

We all know crashes happen in races, whether we like it or not its part of the sport. However there is a huge difference between 2 guys out of the saddle bumping of each other or a touching of wheels causing a crash and what happened on Sunday. The former are in the accident category and however silly the accident may be, they are still accidents.

What happened my club mate was blatant disregard, you could put it in the category of knowingly taking a man out in an attempt to get a point or 2.

Others sports have checks and balances, take rugby citing's for example, but there seems to be little consequences for ones actions in cycling.

Does anybody know if there ever has been follow ups in these scenarios ? Has a cyclist for example ever decided to press charges using others in the race as witnesses ? Would the gardai view incidents as these as being any different for example to a fellow on the street punching another one in the face (for little or no reason) and taking out most of this teeth... Or a driver passing a cyclist in a bad sport, knocking him off his bike and driving on...

This could be rewritten as "some muppet swung over across my line, thankfully he didn't take me out, just himself - deservedly."

Idleater

As a victim in a similar incident, when I gave the description of the bike and rider to the commissar I was told that I needed the racer's number. I replied that I was otherwise occupied by the oncoming car and other falling riders to prioritise reading the number of the perpetrator pedaling into the distance, however since he was following surely he would have seen the KamiKazi manoeuvre? Too bad was the response.

harringtonp

tunney wrote: »

This could be rewritten as "some muppet swung over across my line, thankfully he didn't take me out, just himself - deservedly."

The impression I get from him was that he had long since pulled over (as in several seconds) and was well established on the left hand side of the road before the incident happened.

tunney

harringtonp wrote: »

The impression I get from him was that he had long since pulled over (as in several seconds) and was well established on the left hand side of the road before the incident happened.

Yeah your story doesn't hold water when told like that.

Ryder

tunney wrote: »

Yeah your story doesn't hold water when told like that.

why not? he pulled over, and then someone tryed to go around on the inside.....if he didnt cut across someones line, then surely the person behind is at fault?

anyway, like the discussion on accreditation, unless rule breakers suffer consequences (disqualification/ suspension, depneding) nothing will change

morana

Ryder wrote: »

why not? he pulled over, and then someone tryed to go around on the inside.....if he didnt cut across someones line, then surely the person behind is at fault?

anyway, like the discussion on accreditation, unless rule breakers suffer consequences (disqualification/ suspension, depneding) nothing will change

what rule did he break?

Ryder

morana wrote: »

what rule did he break?

Sorry, may have got it wrong....if someone has pulled over to the left, are you allowed to pass on the inside?

Raam

Ryder wrote: »

Sorry, may have got it wrong....if someone has pulled over to the left, are you allowed to pass on the inside?

You can pass anywhere you like in a road race.

tunney

Ryder wrote: »

Sorry, may have got it wrong....if someone has pulled over to the left, are you allowed to pass on the inside?

Plus if the OPs friend held his line it wouldn't matter which side he was passed on.

Ahhh A4s, the group that even triathletes look down on.

chakattack

Slightly off-topic but on theme. I'd like to put a plan together in case I do crash in a race or training.

If it's bad I imagine I'll be taken by ambulance somewhere but do you have any say in where you go? I think I have some private cover on my health insurance and would want to be treated as quickly as possible.

Any experience?

tunney

chakattack wrote: »

Slightly off-topic but on theme. I'd like to put a plan together in case I do crash in a race or training.

If it's bad I imagine I'll be taken by ambulance somewhere but do you have any say in where you go? I think I have some private cover on my health insurance and would want to be treated as quickly as possible.

Any experience?

No, an ambulance takes you to a specified A&E (not always closest), you cannot control it.

If you need an ambulance you will get to A&E and be treated quickly.
If you are so likely injured you can consider and stress about which hospital could treat you quickest with your PHI then best to drive or get a lift/taxi

I wear a RoadID dog tag : gives my name, DOB,next of kin, and specifies allergies, drug allergies, medical history (NKA, NKDA, NO MED HS) can help in treatment if unconcious (experience tells). Didn't put blood group as they never trust anything about blood group because of the consequences of getting it wrong.

harringtonp

morana wrote: »

what rule did he break?

What I was told was that this guy was trying to squeeze through on the inside, there was no room, it came down to a choice between a wall and him and he took him.

I obviously don't know all the specifics as it wasn't me and I wasn't there (I presumed there may have been others going around on the outside so this guy decided to try for the inside) .

But getting away from this particular incident I was just wondering in general if arse has ever been kicked in cases of blatant disregard ? Or has it always been a bit of an anything goes tribal battle.

Idleater

harringtonp wrote: »

But getting away from this particular incident I was just wondering in general if arse has ever been kicked in cases of blatant disregard ? Or has it always been a bit of an anything goes tribal battle.

As I said, without a rider number of the offender, nothing can be done. If you have a number then a process can be initiated. As for the liklihood of an outcome, I don't know.

fat bloke

As far as I am aware, yes cycling dangerously can be reported and punished - in the form of time added on for a stage race for example. Presumably there is a sliding scale. If you cross dangerously in front of another rider then you can be cited for it, and similarly if you plunged a tire lever into the kneecap of the rider beside you then there is a perhaps more serious disciplinary action that can be taken.

buffalo

fat bloke wrote: »

if you plunged a tire lever into the kneecap of the rider beside you

/me takes notes for the weekend's races

foxer3640

You would think some of these lads in a4 were sprinting for a stage win in the tdf the way some of them carry on. I was at the race in clonard a couple of weeks ago and with about 5k to go a lad got the shoulder into me and tried to push me into the rider to my left beside the grass margin. This was my first open race in a4 and i was a bit shocked at the time but i managed to stay upright (15 years dh mountainbiking helped) and im not proud of this but i gave him a bit of an elbow an he copped on. It could have potentially caused a big crash. Also some of the riding in carrick last week with lads riding into oncoming traffic had to be seen to be believed.

Diarmuid

I feel sorry for your mate but "pulling over" in the last km of a race is a very bad idea.

With regard to dangerous cycling, you can report riders at the end of a race and commissaries will take it seriously.

BofaDeezNuhtz

harringtonp wrote: »

I obviously don't know all the specifics

Obvious statement is obvious