another year, spring arrives, bullocks been bought,

NewBeefFarmer

Hey lads and gals,
Hope the winter was nicer than last summer to ye. Some times I think it would be nicer to feed inside with a nice set up in the winter than be outdoors dealing with cattle in the terrible summer we had last year.

March upon us,
this time last year we had 20deg C. grass was in full growth, lawns were been cut. . . and we were all getting the round-up ready:p

After getting out of the cattle on Oct 27th last year, it feels like a 2 week break and im back in.

was in mart the last few Saturdays and i have 6 1yr olds or there abouts on the land, with maybe 6-8 still to buy, in out of shed, on grass/nuts/hay.

weighed in around ahh say average 370kgs, and averaged price is €854.
ud buy great cattle (1yr old approx at 380-400kgs) and a lot of them at 950-1100 if you wanted to pay that.
Ive thought myself over the winter that the day you buy cattle is the day you loose the profit.

that is sitting for all 300-350 lots on bullocks over 3-4 weeks and playing the game "thers plenty of fish in the sea for us all". . ( im trying for 11-14 month olds/ 350-400 kg, max price, 900-950).
mind you, i gave myself an awhful dose sitting in the mart. .. paddys weekend was just hot-ones all the way.
out of it now thank god.


last year i was late in the game, not been able to buy until May, so i said this year ill be ready for the grass growth in march. . . well, ill be holding off on the remaining 6 or 8 for a week or two more.

Im 3 years in now on this highly rewarding enterprise we are all in.. and all i ask for is not money, its just dam sunshine and less rain. still. its getting a bit easier, i don't have much fencing to put up this year, very little, just strim/maintain.

can i ask ye a favour, last year 13 days after i got cattle in the mart, i had 1 case of pneumonia, this year, believe it or not I had 1 case after 11 days. I got on to my vet as i wanted supplies etc for dealing with such cases, and asked is there something like a vaccination i can give them, and he said there is, but wouldnt stop the cases mentioned above, they get pneumonia as they are young cattle, first time away from the place they were born, stress in the mart, picking up anything in mart is easy (sher i almost died with the cold never mind the bullock ) and that it would be better if they were vaccinated before ever getting to the mart, now i know thats not my problem. but just wondering is there anything i can do to help prevent a case happening after buying. . .

anyway, promised bad for the next 24 hrs, temps to rise a bit though...

oh, i should mention, the said bullock is up and fine again, learnt a lot last year, i saw him been slow behind the pack, lying a bit too much over a 6-8 hr period not eating much, look dodgy, banged him in the shoot and took out the wand, and temp 104.1 . .. vet confirmed yes, mild case, could fight it, but best give him something, .. also sorted for a few more cases this year.

anyway, long post, nothing chances with me,

must go bed now and stress about 6 bullocks, 3degs, bare hedge/trees, rain, storm, grass, no grass, . . .lol:rolleyes:

Farmer Pudsey

NBF are you selling cattle as forward stores or can you carry over the winter. Fresian yearlings are good value at present can be bought for 150 with the weight the disadvantage is that idealy you need to carry over the winter. As good stores next spring they will sell around 2/kg so there is a bob (an old shilling not Charles) in them.

You buy two for the price you are paying for one.

Marooned75

Was in a mart today five right bullocks ave 293kgs sold 915 if I remember rightly.They are only going to go up for all types now try not to delay much longer if you can.

jomoloney

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

NBF are you selling cattle as forward stores or can you carry over the winter. Fresian yearlings are good value at present can be bought for 150 with the weight the disadvantage is that idealy you need to carry over the winter. As good stores next spring they will sell around 2/kg so there is a bob (an old shilling not Charles) in them.

You buy two for the price you are paying for one.

I'd like to see the fr you buy for 150 over (on second thoughts maybe not) we got 780 for 340 kgs in our own yard , most likely would got a tad more but the buyer was a lone time repeat customer

mf240

You want to be a very good judge of stock to go buying friesans. A good friesan that had a bad winter but was reared alright and has at least some br friesan blood is the one to go for.

Them real narrow yokes that would split hailstones are best avoided as they will get taller and narrower as the year progresses.

Any of the imported english calves from last year appearing in marts?

NewBeefFarmer

Pudsey yes, i sell them as forward stores, (if you mean that i aim to sell them in oct/nov for another farmer to house and gain further weight before factoring probably late the following autumn.

my average weight gain for the animals last year, per month May to Oct came in around 26kgs per month each. . .
i would have thought this would be higher, but with the wet weather, its a wonder they didnt pee the grass out. . .
id like to see my lads this year get to 500/550 next oct/nov. . . . will see,
26 by 7 months say is 182, add that to weight today at 375 say and your bang on the mark.

beleive it or not Fresians are not very common in my mart, in fact. i had a couple of black cattle, lmx &AAX 3 yrs ago, and they did well for me, weight gain like. . . and i said, must see about getting them again, and no joking, id say if you had 300bullocks in the mart, 80% are chx/lmx/ white/red/ginger cattle... . very little black, i have one black lmx with me now, hes a bit light looking, as mf240 would say he could split a hale stone comparing to the 5 chx i have. . . but i like ur thinking. .

i was also thinking, is black cattle popular any more, or is it dying away in my area, and maybe if i was lucky to get some, would they do well then when selling as they arent common ?. . then again, no matter what the brand, if the bullock has potential, or looks fit, he will go for good money. ..

restive

NBF, how many cattle do you keep to the acre? Is it good land? Do u solely rely on grass or do you give them any supplement?

Pharaoh1

Have my quota of 28 summer grazers all purchased for the year from late Feb until last week. Avg 325kg and €835 in the mart delivered at €870 - happy enough with the price - not cheap by any means but value for the quality and definitely cheaper than this time last year.
I don't think these type of nice quality CH bulls/bullocks are going to get any cheaper.
Had I known about the weather I probably would have held off a bit but I have them now and have to manage. Grazing rotation is out the window for now and they are in small groups with access to sheltered paddocks and I am allocating them strips of fresh grass every 2 or 3 days. Feeding 2-3 kg of meal to stretch the grass and bought a few small square bales of hay but they are not interested in it while they have grass but I only have 10 - 14 days of grass left but the dry weather this week is helping. Might have to buy a little more hay to get me through.

No pneumonia but a couple had chills but ok after just one shot. 2 more with fouls but all ok now they seem acclimatized to the weather now. They are happy enough out once they have plenty to eat and you can see the weight gain already on those that came in in late Feb.

Am I completely mad to be out in the early morning/late evening in snowshowers with bags of ration and cattle running after me and moving electric fences - probably but like so many more I can't help it.

NewBeefFarmer

@Restive
i usually try and keep 12 for about 30 acres.

i could i suppose do more, but look its almost April and not a pick on the land comparing to last year, id rather have too much grass than too little.

+ im building up slowly, i cant see any reason not to have 15 to 20 for the 30 acres, but that would be down the line when i get experience of grass mgt etc.. . + grass wise, knowing whats suppose to be out there and when

have 6 at the min, and going to mart again saturday, chancing it, hoping for milder weather in the next 3-4 weeks.

there on good land, so every farmer visiting me says.
i usually give them 1kg nuts each, everyday for a week or two, it settles them, starts them off, but most importantly ive found that it gets them used to me .. within a day or two i can pet most of them. . . no fear,.. . . most cattle now a day dont get human contact. the 6 i have now are on grass only. out.

@Pharaoh1,

first question, when u say quota, whats stopping you have 30?. . just wondering is there a max one can have. . . i have asked everywhere over the years, and thought that while i have to have a min, is there a max?

or maybe its just your finance/grass requirement.

u mention a couple had the chills and it was solved with one shot.
do u mind me asking what were the symptoms and what did you give them to rid of it?. .



I think some farmers are having to sell with no grass fodder, others like me are looking at "ok, i can buy but assuming grass will grow in the next 4 weeks" other farmers then are waiting for the actual confirmation to buy "grass is growing". . id prefer to buy before the sun and grass grows. .

NBF

NewBeefFarmer

would love to hear from other farmers how many 350/400kg bullocks would take care of 30 acres. . good land.

Farmer Pudsey

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

would love to hear from other farmers how many 350/400kg bullocks would take care of 30 acres. . good land.

For summer grazing with goodish grassland managment you should be able to manage at least one/acre. However I would not advacote a jump to this in one year. Also you could make 20-30 bales of silage allowing you to buy a week or two earlier and feed outside in a year like this. However with old grass in fields and no paddock system it may be hard to exceed 2 cattle/3 acre's. In a year like this you could get caught wiyh high numbers.

NewBeefFarmer

ya, i agree with you, and that number has to be found by each farmer him/herself. . .
it will come over years. .

yes, i agree, 20-30 bales . . . my tractor is useless with round bales though, too light . . im working this system for a year or two and see what i get from it. . .. maybe ill upgrade.. . . sign in to a newholland. . :-)

Farmer Pudsey

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

ya, i agree with you, and that number has to be found by each farmer him/herself. . .
it will come over years. .

yes, i agree, 20-30 bales . . . my tractor is useless with round bales though, too light . . im working this system for a year or two and see what i get from it. . .. maybe ill upgrade.. . . sign in to a newholland. . :-)

Get the contractor to make bale as light as possible, if you have a shed to store it in buy hay or straw it can be stored for years and any tractor can feed same. A bit of ration with it will get you out of any hole. Straw usually can be bought in August/setpember for less than 20/bale, good hay is better value at less than 30 and maybe a bit more. You buy good stuff this year you might not need to feed it until 2018.

Pharaoh1

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

@Restive
i usually try and keep 12 for about 30 acres.

i could i suppose do more, but look its almost April and not a pick on the land comparing to last year, id rather have too much grass than too little.

+ im building up slowly, i cant see any reason not to have 15 to 20 for the 30 acres, but that would be down the line when i get experience of grass mgt etc.. . + grass wise, knowing whats suppose to be out there and when

have 6 at the min, and going to mart again saturday, chancing it, hoping for milder weather in the next 3-4 weeks.

there on good land, so every farmer visiting me says.
i usually give them 1kg nuts each, everyday for a week or two, it settles them, starts them off, but most importantly ive found that it gets them used to me .. within a day or two i can pet most of them. . . no fear,.. . . most cattle now a day dont get human contact. the 6 i have now are on grass only. out.

@Pharaoh1,

first question, when u say quota, whats stopping you have 30?. . just wondering is there a max one can have. . . i have asked everywhere over the years, and thought that while i have to have a min, is there a max?

or maybe its just your finance/grass requirement.

u mention a couple had the chills and it was solved with one shot.
do u mind me asking what were the symptoms and what did you give them to rid of it?. .



I think some farmers are having to sell with no grass fodder, others like me are looking at "ok, i can buy but assuming grass will grow in the next 4 weeks" other farmers then are waiting for the actual confirmation to buy "grass is growing". . id prefer to buy before the sun and grass grows. .

NBF

Hi NBF,
I have about 25 acres so 28 is a reasonable number. I had 31 in 2011 which was the highest number I've bought. If I had the safety valve of accomodation I could easily stock up to 35 or so but 29 last year was a struggle. But I am probably stocked higher this year than ever as 28 at 325kg is way ahead in terms of KG liveweight per acre or HA than the 29 at 280kg I started with last year. Remember too that when a 300kg weanling hits 450kg (usually in August for me) he is eating 50% more grass.
Cash is a big issue too following the big jump in cattle prices in 2011 and also the lack of cashflow during the year for all the inputs.

Like you I always feed meal to settle them and it makes it easier to detect health problems. The chills I had this year the cattle were not eating standing on their own or lying down, breathing heavily and snotty noses. One of them was also drooling a bit from the mouth a bit too but he recovered quickly. I don't know exactly what the vet gave me for the chill he covered the product name with a big sticker but it is a similar product to Penstrep. There seems to be loads of different stuff on the market - I got Devomycin for fouls which I think is just a variation on Streptomycin.

Manoffeeling

I'm hoping to purchase 15 light stores for 28 acres but spreading no fertiliser. i Have the remainder of the land set for 2 cut silage(35), and fodder beet(9). Only starting back. Planning being lodged for shed and tank so money is tight.

Tipp Man

speaking from a good bit of experience here

You will make no money at summer grazing if you are forking out money for cutting a bit of silage, spreading fertiliser, feeding nuts and all these completly unnecessary costs.

For summer grazing the only way to make money is keep costs to the bare minimum, so dosing, transport mart fees, testing. Anything else is nearly always unnecessary

Especially at the very low stocking rates being talked about on here

The key is to control your grass and keep the cattle thriving. Remember you are usually selling your cattle at a cheaper cost per kg than you bought them in March/April so you have to ensure that you get a good cheap thrive on them

Tipp Man

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

would love to hear from other farmers how many 350/400kg bullocks would take care of 30 acres. . good land.

They are small cattle - if you have good dry land you should have no problem with 40 to 45 cattle on 30 acres. You will need that amount to control the grass when the growth spurt comes in May.

you should then look to reduce your number from start of July - to 30 probably - and look to keep them as late in the year as possible - November is a great month to sell cattle

Pharaoh1

Tipp Man wrote: »

speaking from a good bit of experience here

You will make no money at summer grazing if you are forking out money for cutting a bit of silage, spreading fertiliser, feeding nuts and all these completly unnecessary costs.

For summer grazing the only way to make money is keep costs to the bare minimum, so dosing, transport mart fees, testing. Anything else is nearly always unnecessary

Especially at the very low stocking rates being talked about on here

The key is to control your grass and keep the cattle thriving. Remember you are usually selling your cattle at a cheaper cost per kg than you bought them in March/April so you have to ensure that you get a good cheap thrive on them

Agree with some of your points Tipp Man.
- I keep meal feeding to a minimum just a bit to settle the cattle. It could be avoided but for part timers it helps a lot to manage cattle. But everyone has to take account of exceptional weather conditions.

- Feeding silage in round feeders out in a field for a summer grazer (or for any farmer really) defeats the whole purpose. Grass is the key - round feeders help to ruin land and reduce grass growth.

However making silage is a must to control both grass supply and quality.
I hear your point on having extra cattle for the peak growth period but I disagree. I've thought about it but the costs of trading cattle to keep them for say three months are prohibitive. Also TB herd testing is an issue.

- If you are taking out paddocks as I am then returning nutrients to the soil be it imported slurry or chemical fertiliser. In my case surplus grass sold as baled silage more or less pays for the fertiliser and I fertilise to replace the nutrients rather than to drive growth.
I know there are those who are lightly stocked who will never spread any fertiliser but in the long run this land will eventually suffer with weed and weed grasses taking over. That assumes the sward is of good quality starting out.

Farmer Pudsey

Tippman

i would advacote adding cost to any system however it is often necessay to have a plan in place for weather like present or like last year. The earlier you buy cattle normally the cheaper they are and the easier it is to manage grass. Also the longer you have them the more weight they can put on.

Summer grazing like you say is a tough tight buisness. however a few bales of straw or hay and a little ration can get you over the present hump. Hay or straw will last 5 years in a shed if good quality when bought and can cost half the present price not to mention accessability.

NewBeefFarmer

well, the latest posts above are exactly where i want to be, . . . . myself and the wife call it Ryanair style farming, low cost, high turnover of animals, try and buy in march, out by mid Nov.
last year we spent a few bob fencing,. . . etc. and other bits, this year we hope to have little out put.




after running around complaining about transport for the bullocks, im still taking the awl ford 2000 out and the trailer, it may take 30-40 mins one way, but its saving a bit, i drive it up in the morning before the mart, and if i come home empty, i dont mind. i can take 4 animals in it easy, so ideal think would be to have 4 bought in one day, . . . sure i could have 4 bought in 3 hours, but im looking for my right animal at the right price.


as for silage to keep grass down, I want to be where i have nobody coming on the land, if its to take bales away that ive cut for sale, they wreck the land, and if i sell off a meadow, then they cut it late and ive no after grass (happened last year). . this year, ill take cattle in if the money allows it, and weather goes to plan, walking around the fields this evening, ive plenty of grass and I shouldnt be worrying, in the next two weeks i want to double the herd to 12 and ill see from there then.. .

maybe by summer 2015 ill be up to 20. . . .but as pudsey would probably advise baby steps, i only doing this 3 yrs now and my learning curve with grass growth is , (well going by this year hasnt even taken off). . . last year threw me, as this year is completely different, ill need to know whats the average march like for grass growth, i wont know that for another few yrs. dad would have always told me you wont have grass till May 1st.

i agree, buy as early as possible, sell as late as possible .. ..

I think farmer pudsey told me last year, its about weight gain. the aim is to go to the mart as heavy as possible.

dont worry, i go thru the phase of , "dam that land cruiser and iforwilliams passing me out", i should get me one of those.. . hes gone in the distance and before i get to that turn, hes probably already at the mart . .. and i do think, god if i ever see that day of owning jeep/trailer, ill never forget where i started from.

then im on the land topping, thinking, wish i had a ford 7610 and a good topper, then i just carry on with me mow bar. .. and think, what difference would it make, an hr or two saving. .

i do think, do some farmers not cost in everything when looking at the bottom line, if i look at a new tractor or a jeep/trailer, then thats like yrs of profit of mine gone.

if i can manage to do above without that dam cruiser or a 7610 (love them) i should be ok.

45 cattle ahe ?> :pac::cool::P;)

id need to get the cab heated for all those trips. .
NBF

JohnBoy

I like your style.

both the ramblings and the logic behind them