ccna don't bother unless you have a degree

moneymad

I wouldn't bother going for the ccna cert unless you have a degree or you are currently working in IT.
It's not worth the effort. You will have trouble finding an entry level helpdesk type role.

NullZer0

moneymad wrote: »

I wouldn't bother going for the ccna cert unless you have a degree or you are currently working in IT.
It's not worth the effort. You will have trouble finding an entry level helpdesk type role.

Your welcome to present any argument here but please provide examples / details / numbers otherwise it's nonconstructive and ends up going off topic.

Can you expand on your point?
Is it based on your experience or the experience of someone else?

moneymad

iRock wrote: »

Your welcome to present any argument here but please provide examples / details / numbers otherwise it's nonconstructive and ends up going off topic.

Can you expand on your point?
Is it based on your experience or the experience of someone else?

Every day I see threads asking "how do I get into networking".
I see it repeated on every forum I visit. They think if they get the ccna they can walk into a job as a network engineer. That's not the case at all. On the various job sites you have keywords such as ccna in the title and if you look at those jobs, they are for people with years of experience and not for some junior engineer. Type in junior or trainee engineer into any job site and you'd be hard pushed to find 1 or 2 jobs.

NullZer0

moneymad wrote: »

Every day I see threads asking "how do I get into networking".
I see it repeated on every forum I visit. They think if they get the ccna they can walk into a job as a network engineer. That's not the case at all. On the various job sites you have keywords such as ccna in the title and if you look at those jobs, they are for people with years of experience and not for some junior engineer. Type in junior or trainee engineer into any job site and you'd be hard pushed to find 1 or 2 jobs.

In my experience, you don't find much from job sites in terms of networking roles (speaking as someone who maintained the infrastructure for the main one in Ireland).
Generally through networking / linkedin is the way to go.

On the other hand, you have to understand how many engineers are actually available. Some companies are willing to compromise and take on people with slightly less experience.

I know many people with no degree and no experience in IT who got CCNA's and got jobs.

As I mentioned above, your argument is invalid unless you can provide numbers and specifics - "1 or 2 jobs" is not sufficient.

Do you have a CCNA or are you preparing for CCNA?
Or do you have a CCNA and are looking for a foot in the door?

moneymad

iRock wrote: »

In my experience, you don't find much from job sites in terms of networking roles (speaking as someone who maintained the infrastructure for the main one in Ireland).
Generally through networking / linkedin is the way to go.

On the other hand, you have to understand how many engineers are actually available. Some companies are willing to compromise and take on people with slightly less experience.

I know many people with no degree and no experience in IT who got CCNA's and got jobs.

As I mentioned above, your argument is invalid unless you can provide numbers and specifics - "1 or 2 jobs" is not sufficient.

Do you have a CCNA or are you preparing for CCNA?
Or do you have a CCNA and are looking for a foot in the door?

That has been my experience as well.
The amount of new ccna holders far outweigh the jobs going. I think it is a waste of time for that very reason. You would be better off spending your time on skills you would need to secure an entry level job and then go from there. This is my own experience.

Kinet1c

Breaking in to the IT sector without a degree can make you feel like you're in the chicken/egg scenario. I've worked with a CCNA who had zero work experience and it was a struggle for them to configure a standard DSL router via the web gui. Certifications are a great tool for getting a foot in the door or for negotiating wages/contract terms.

If you're finding it hard to get your foot in the door then you need to start searching further a field. 12-18 months in a customer service based call centre (technology focus) will get you on the ladder. From there you're looking at help desk, then potentially field engineer or sys admin depending on what you're looking for. Have you tried any intern work to get hands on experience on to the CV?

WOCM4

ccna don't bother unless you have a degree
I wouldn't bother going for the ccna cert unless you have a degree or you are currently working in IT.
It's not worth the effort. You will have trouble finding an entry level helpdesk type role.

Just spat me beer over my keyboard reading that twoddle.

Are you some anti Cisco troll MoneyMad or what?

You just failed the CCENT and gave up?

Utter Utter bull. Disinformation that I'd nearly report to a mod.

Anyone thinking of getting into networking - CCNA is the beginning.

You will most likly not land a networking job with it but you WILL get some form of IT work.

God forbid probably helpdesk. But thats a start.

CCNA is just prep for CCNP basically.

Moneymad, you gonna tell me a CCNP is worthless next?

As for this:

I've worked with a CCNA who had zero work experience and it was a struggle for them to configure a standard DSL router via the web gui.

Horse Manure. Are you for real?

harney

WOCM4 wrote: »

Horse Manure. Are you for real?

I am sure there are more eloquent ways of phrasing this.

Perhaps the poster has just come across somebody that was solely using prep tools like cbt nuggets or brain dumps, rather than actually studying and learning what was going on.

As far as I remember it was a serious problem for Cisco, much like the MCSE in NT4 for Microsoft.

NullZer0

Lets try to keep the thread as constructive as possible.

Contacted OP already, pointed him in the right direction.

I think there's a good lesson here - an engineering manager is not going to come into your home and beg you to work for them.
It takes a bit of work and research just finding the right role but there are no shortage of them.

WOCM4

harney wrote: »

I am sure there are more eloquent ways of phrasing this.

Perhaps the poster has just come across somebody that was solely using prep tools like cbt nuggets or brain dumps, rather than actually studying and learning what was going on.

As far as I remember it was a serious problem for Cisco, much like the MCSE in NT4 for Microsoft.

Fair enough, point taken. Ive done a lot of certs over the years and yeah the brain dump syndrome ruined a lot of cert tracks- mainly MS Certs tho.

I dunno how you could brain dump your way through CLI sims / subnetting problems in current Cisco certs, that why I get rattled when people undermine them.

SDM is a part of ICND1. I'm sure after that someone one would be able to handle some dsl config.

WOCM4

harney wrote: »

cbt nuggets or brain dumps,

Just revisited this post.

The fact you equate CBT Nuggets with Brian dumps says a lot about what you have done (or not)

harney

WOCM4 wrote: »

Just revisited this post.

The fact you equate CBT Nuggets with Brian dumps says a lot about what you have done (or not)

Or not. No Microsoft or Cisco exams, and l think l meant trancenders. I think they were the ones that got awfully close to exam questions back in the day.

UDP

moneymad wrote: »

I wouldn't bother going for the ccna cert unless you have a degree or you are currently working in IT.
It's not worth the effort. You will have trouble finding an entry level helpdesk type role.

What helpdesk role does a CCNA help with over the other many more generic certifications? I don't know any helpdesk type roles that are solely networking based. To think that a CCNA alone gets someone into a job without a degree or other qualifications is completely naive thinking -especially if they think it will get them into a network engineering job.

A CCNA did help me greatly progress in IT from doing mickey mouse home and small business self-employed job to being the network admin of a large financial institution in the space of 4 years but a CCNA wasn't the only qualification that helped as I have some MS certs too plus alot of other knowledge I have picked up from just reading and watching lots of stuff and trying out things. I don't have a degree either although I am going back to do one now part time on my employer's dime.

Those without experience and a degree should be doing the likes of CompTIA A+, MS OS client exams, MS Office exams for apps such as Outlook and then maybe should do the CCENT (or if they feel they are still a bit weak then should do the N+ first). Then they might be in a position to know where they would want to specialise or get a junior sys admin role or if they are lucky a junior network engineer role. These certifications are not enough without practice and building a lab etc. and reading around so that you have something to talk about in interviews.

If someone has some sys admin experience and want to get into Network Engineering I would recommend they definitely do the CCNA after first sitting the CCENT and read Laura Chappell's "Wireshark Network Analysis: the Official Wireshark Certified Network Analyst Study Guide" - this book is an excellent guide on not only how to use wireshark properly but also it gives a good indept guide on protocols and troubleshooting.

moneymad

It isn't an easy test to pass. After 3 attempts, I got my ccna last December.

Like everything else.When you are working in an industry already, you will hear about other jobs and find it easier to get hired.I don't expect to walk into a company and start using their routers. I know I have to get an intership or an entry level job.
4 months later, no interviews.

UDP

moneymad wrote: »

It isn't an easy test to pass. After 3 attempts, I got my ccna last December.

Like everything else.When you are working in an industry already, you will hear about other jobs and find it easier to get hired.I don't expect to walk into a company and start using their routers. I know I have to get an intership or an entry level job.
4 months later, no interviews.

Have you any other certificates/qualifications? As you would be very lucky to get a job with just a CCNA and no experience in IT.

Having said that I had a guy come in from a telco a few weeks back who had just started in IT (he worked in construction for years) and a CCNA landed him the job with a telco mounting networking kit. He hadn't a clue what he was doing and I had to do a lot of the work to make sure he didn't bring down our network. He had absolutely no experience - i'm very surprised that he got the job, from talking to him it seems like there is a high turn over in the position so they probably took anyone as they were under pressure. The f'ucker even tried to plug into our network when I had my back turned away for a min to try and get internet access - I nearly kicked him out when I saw.

This is why I would be very wary of hiring anybody without enterprise experience. Even helpdesk experience would teach someone a lot but a CCNA will not get you a helpdesk role.

Nate--IRL--

I've done the CCNA and ROUTE during a long period of unemployment (used to be in architecture) - I started an intern-ship last October, and even though the CCNA was a very solid grounding, I quickly realised there were more important things to master first.

The Company I joined administer clients Microsoft networks. I'd no experience of MS Server or Exchange administration, none. I'd never even heard of things like Terminal Servers, Clustering, iSCSI, plus countless other things that you won't find neatly packaged in just one text book.

The CCNA (less so ROUTE) has been very beneficial to me in understanding things at a network level when things go wrong. I would have been at a massive disadvantage without it. But I was also very very green with other stuff that I actually needed, and only experience can give. Actual exposure to a working environment is going to teach you so much more than any textbook for a cert.

It is very much Chicken and Egg, a Cert is better that no Cert, a foot in the door for an interview maybe, but employers want experience. It is pain in the arse, and soul sapping when you hear nothing back for months from applications made.

Nate

yalwaysme

well iv done my A+ and N+ , . I would like to eventually get into networking but after reading some of the posts on here im not so sure if i should bother with it (ccna) right now, maybe i should just keep looking for that elusive entry level position and leave the CCNA for another while. I dont think CCNA would be a requirement for an entry level position and thats the only position i can realistically hope to get, so whats the point in doing CCNA if you have no prior experience?

UDP

yalwaysme wrote: »

well iv done my A+ and N+ , . I would like to eventually get into networking but after reading some of the posts on here im not so sure if i should bother with it (ccna) right now, maybe i should just keep looking for that elusive entry level position and leave the CCNA for another while. I dont think CCNA would be a requirement for an entry level position and thats the only position i can realistically hope to get, so whats the point in doing CCNA if you have no prior experience?

You could always do the ccent (icnd1) and do the CCNA at a later date but it is not really necessary for a help desk role if that's what you are looking for. Another thing people should be doing is getting experience by doing jobs for people. There might be organisations that could do with volunteers where you could get exposure.

NullZer0

UDP wrote: »

What helpdesk role does a CCNA help with over the other many more generic certifications? I don't know any helpdesk type roles that are solely networking based. To think that a CCNA alone gets someone into a job without a degree or other qualifications is completely naive thinking

My experience completely contradicts your post.

Maysa07

On the flip side i've worked with people with Degrees who don't no their arse from their elbow.

The CCNA is a excellent certification that will stand to anyone who is not necessary heading in the network route. It is an well respected cert and not only proves your knowledge in network but proves your ability to learn and achieve something.

WOCM4

I believe we are generating some light from the heat

No matter what area of support IT you wanna get into CCNA is a huge benefit.

I remember struggling with my MCSA back in the day , flicking thru the chapters, wondering when the 'How networks work bit' would start. It never did. Its assumed you know DNS/DHCP/IP already.

So today, if you want to be any form of Sys Admin, CCNA is such a great foundation, you know how the LAN/WAN functions.

Even if you never touch a router again its more than worth it.

You know layer 1,2 and 3. The MS stuff skims that.

Windows Sever is pretty clear after that.

Without that Layer 1, 2, and 3 knowledge, trying to do Sys Admin is a nightmare. Spoke from experience.

EDIT-- TBH, I found Net + harder than CCNA, to much memorizing Ethernet standards and no real focus. All over the shop. I got Net+ but do not rec it. Do CCENT.

CCNA is pretty 'Real World' , as Chris Bryant would say.

moneymad

UDP wrote: »

Have you any other certificates/qualifications? As you would be very lucky to get a job with just a CCNA and no experience in IT.

Having said that I had a guy come in from a telco a few weeks back who had just started in IT (he worked in construction for years) and a CCNA landed him the job with a telco mounting networking kit. He hadn't a clue what he was doing and I had to do a lot of the work to make sure he didn't bring down our network. He had absolutely no experience - i'm very surprised that he got the job, from talking to him it seems like there is a high turn over in the position so they probably took anyone as they were under pressure. The f'ucker even tried to plug into our network when I had my back turned away for a min to try and get internet access - I nearly kicked him out when I saw.

This is why I would be very wary of hiring anybody without enterprise experience. Even helpdesk experience would teach someone a lot but a CCNA will not get you a helpdesk role.

I currently work for myself "now part time" as a computer repair technician.Been doing that since 2006.
I'd gladly take a helpdesk job now as it would be a stepping stone to something.

The ****er nearly tried to plug into the network. I hope you had switch port security mac address sticky on. I barely remembered that.Since passing it I have lost a load of knowledge. I must go over it again soon.

moneymad

WOCM4 wrote: »

I believe we are generating some light from the heat

No matter what area of support IT you wanna get into CCNA is a huge benefit.

I remember struggling with my MCSA back in the day , flicking thru the chapters, wondering when the 'How networks work bit' would start. It never did. Its assumed you know DNS/DHCP/IP already.

So today, if you want to be any form of Sys Admin, CCNA is such a great foundation, you know how the LAN/WAN functions.

Even if you never touch a router again its more than worth it.

You know layer 1,2 and 3. The MS stuff skims that.

Windows Sever is pretty clear after that.

Without that Layer 1, 2, and 3 knowledge, trying to do Sys Admin is a nightmare. Spoke from experience.

EDIT-- TBH, I found Net + harder than CCNA, to much memorizing Ethernet standards and no real focus. All over the shop. I got Net+ but do not rec it. Do CCENT.

CCNA is pretty 'Real World' , as Chris Bryant would say.

Some good points. But you must be out of your mind if you think net+ was harder than ccna. I did the net+ in 2 weeks.

zweton

UDP wrote: »

What helpdesk role does a CCNA help with over the other many more generic certifications? I don't know any helpdesk type roles that are solely networking based. To think that a CCNA alone gets someone into a job without a degree or other qualifications is completely naive thinking -especially if they think it will get them into a network engineering job.

A CCNA did help me greatly progress in IT from doing mickey mouse home and small business self-employed job to being the network admin of a large financial institution in the space of 4 years but a CCNA wasn't the only qualification that helped as I have some MS certs too plus alot of other knowledge I have picked up from just reading and watching lots of stuff and trying out things. I don't have a degree either although I am going back to do one now part time on my employer's dime.

Those without experience and a degree should be doing the likes of CompTIA A+, MS OS client exams, MS Office exams for apps such as Outlook and then maybe should do the CCENT (or if they feel they are still a bit weak then should do the N+ first). Then they might be in a position to know where they would want to specialise or get a junior sys admin role or if they are lucky a junior network engineer role. These certifications are not enough without practice and building a lab etc. and reading around so that you have something to talk about in interviews.

If someone has some sys admin experience and want to get into Network Engineering I would recommend they definitely do the CCNA after first sitting the CCENT and read Laura Chappell's "Wireshark Network Analysis: the Official Wireshark Certified Network Analyst Study Guide" - this book is an excellent guide on not only how to use wireshark properly but also it gives a good indept guide on protocols and troubleshooting.

Just reading this book atm, it really is very good and well written.

WOCM4

moneymad wrote: »

Some good points. But you must be out of your mind if you think net+ was harder than ccna. I did the net+ in 2 weeks.

Well, harder was the wrong word!

I suppose a lot of memorization and a real scatter gun approach, loads of topics but very little depth and nothing about hardware really. I mean it does not go into Switches and Routers!

It was a drag to go through Net + where as CCNA is very focused and interesting to boot!

btw - 2 weeks is very impressive for Net+.

bods2808

Hello.
I agree with you on this as i have a CCNA cert with a year and studying CCNA VOIP at the moment, and i'm trying to get in to networking somewhere for one day free of charge but every time i send in a CV and follow it up i get the run down how many years experience do you have, I come from a telecomms back round and have twenty four years under my belt such as PBX,Fibre optic terminating and testing,Structured cabling. and still no good, god only know's where i go from here.

horgan_p

Zombie thread . gooodnight.