Community Wardens and Parking fine in Galway

paulgalway

SIL got a parking fine in the post today; which she feels is unfair.

She was stopped outside the €2 shop in Eglington street while my wife went into get a birthday card.

Two community wardens came along, stopped not far from her car and were standing talking to each other.

One then headed off on his own, 2nd came over to SIL and told her she should move the car as she was in a loading area; she said OK and immediately moved-off.

The notice to-day said that the fine was for parking in the loading area and that the community warden was unable to attach the fine to the car.

At no stage did the warden tell the SIL that she was getting a ticket and fine and she moved when requested to do so.

Would the be any point in appealing the fine?

Redhairedguy

Seeing as she was in the car at the time, and actually had verbal exchange with the warden; absolutely.

Mrs OBumble

Simple question: was she parked in a loading zone when she shouldn't have been? A Yes/No answer will do. And the same answer applies to whether it was fair or not.

Save all the excuses about she was in the car, it was only for a minute, yadda, yadda, yadda.

IMHO the CW's only mistake was not attaching the ticket at the same time he told her to move the car.



(And I'm not saying that I've never done it - just that if I got caught, I'd pay the fine like and adult who takes responsibility for the consequences of their actions.)

swiftman

did she have the magic 'im invisible' hazard lights on too? they make a difference.

for once im agreeing with Mrs OBumble

finlma

Do the crime, do the time. She got a ticket for being in a loading bay when she should not have been. You don't really have a leg to stand on.

antoobrien

After a quick look I can't find any legal definition of "parking" in the bye laws, worth investigation as if it's not defined then how can one be illegally parked?

Storm 10

Agree with all the above posts, Eglinton street is the most abused street in Galway for breaking the law, "Into the Post Office" into "Shops" etc, if you want to do anything there park your car in a designated area and dont be breaking the law. I pass that way every moring at around 8.30 and parents just stop at the school to let out their kids blocking the traffic turning right onto Eglinto Street with a green light, others park all along the yellow lines put on the flashers and go about their business.

Fair play to the warden

Play To Kill

On what grounds would she be appealing? She was illegally parked. I drive a van for a living and often cant use loading areas because of people who park private cars in loading bays, it drives me nuts.

antoobrien

Play To Kill wrote: »

On what grounds would she be appealing? She was illegally parked. I drive a van for a living and often cant use loading areas because of people who park private cars in loading bays, it drives me nuts.

But she wouldn't be causing you a problem because there was still somebody in the car available to move it if required. So why do they need the ticket when they are not causing an obstruction to the loading bay?

swiftman

she moved in from the road into a loading bay, stopped her car=parked.

why do drivers in galway think its ok to break the rules and then complain when they get caught.

the person was in the wrong, get over it and pay. maybe might teach others not to do it

Iwannahurl

Play To Kill wrote: »

I drive a van for a living and often cant use loading areas because of people who park private cars in loading bays, it drives me nuts.

Agreed. This is a very common offence, and one that is too often overlooked. When motorists park illegally in loading bays, commercial drivers on schedules who need to unload have no option but to find an alternative parking spot nearby. Consequently there are knock-on adverse effects for other road users.

Unfortunately, in Galway City at least, the number of tickets given out for misuse of loading bays is tiny.

Iwannahurl

paulgalway wrote: »

SIL got a parking fine in the post today; which she feels is unfair.

She was stopped outside the €2 shop in Eglington street while my wife went into get a birthday card.

Two community wardens came along, stopped not far from her car and were standing talking to each other.

One then headed off on his own, 2nd came over to SIL and told her she should move the car as she was in a loading area; she said OK and immediately moved-off.

The notice to-day said that the fine was for parking in the loading area and that the community warden was unable to attach the fine to the car.

At no stage did the warden tell the SIL that she was getting a ticket and fine and she moved when requested to do so.

Would the be any point in appealing the fine?

Is it possible that the first warden issued the ticket later?

I'm led to believe that in the past nearly one in every six parking fines was revoked on appeal. That doesn't make me happy, by the way.

Play To Kill

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Agreed. This is a very common offence, and one that is too often overlooked. When motorists park illegally in loading bays, commercial drivers on schedules who need to unload have no option but to find an alternative parking spot nearby. Consequently there are knock-on adverse effects for other road users.

Unfortunately, in Galway City at least, the number of tickets given out for misuse of loading bays is tiny.

And the worst thing about it is many will just sit in their parked cars and refuse to move to let you park and go about your business.

Iwannahurl

I have the same problem as a pedestrian.

I have been told to Foxtrot Oscar several times on the basis of "who's going to do anything about it?"

That's the basic problem all round: lack of enforcement leads to blatant gob****ery.

Galway City needs more strategically-sited loading bays, in my opinion, and better regulation of their use.

Victor

paulgalway wrote: »

the community warden was unable to attach the fine to the car ...

... as the motorist would likely engage in a breach of the peace.

paulgalway

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Simple question: was she parked in a loading zone when she shouldn't have been? A Yes/No answer will do. And the same answer applies to whether it was fair or not.

Save all the excuses about she was in the car, it was only for a minute, yadda, yadda, yadda.

IMHO the CW's only mistake was not attaching the ticket at the same time he told her to move the car.



(And I'm not saying that I've never done it - just that if I got caught, I'd pay the fine like and adult who takes responsibility for the consequences of their actions.)

I have an oxygen cylinder here if you want it considering you are on the high moral ground. .

Iwannahurl

And have you a carrot for my horse? The highest in the land, allegedly.

Irishgoatman

Although I agree that the car should not have been parked there surely the Warden was also in the wrong for not issuing the ticket when he able to do so.

The warden must have already noted the reg number, so must have had time to attached it.

All very strange.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Although I agree that the car should not have been parked there surely the Warden was also in the wrong for not issuing the ticket when he able to do so.

The warden must have already noted the reg number, so must have had time to attached it.

All very strange.

Must have been short of quota for the month.

schemingbohemia

antoobrien wrote: »

After a quick look I can't find any legal definition of "parking" in the bye laws, worth investigation as if it's not defined then how can one be illegally parked?

Look a bit further, maybe at the Interpretation Act, which covers words meaning what everyone thinks they mean.

Irishgoatman

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Look a bit further, maybe at the Interpretation Act, which covers words meaning what everyone thinks they mean.

I drove coaches for a while, many years ago, in the U.K. and can remember in my home town taxis had to stop on the taxi rank to let passengers out because of double yellow lines, and they then had to cross a busy road with their suitcases.

Interpretation can mean different things to different people.

Were the taxis parked if they stopped on the lines?. Well yes if you look at it from the point of view that there was no-one behind the wheel.

claregalway1

Redhairedguy wrote: »

Seeing as she was in the car at the time, and actually had verbal exchange with the warden; absolutely.

completly idiot you are stop giving ****e advise

FreudianSlippers

claregalway1 wrote: »

completly idiot you are stop giving ****e advise

banned.

claregalway11

HAHAHAHAH HEHEHEHHE

slimjimmc

antoobrien wrote: »

After a quick look I can't find any legal definition of "parking" in the bye laws, worth investigation as if it's not defined then how can one be illegally parked?

It's defined in the Road Traffic Act

“park”, in relation to a vehicle, means keep or leave stationary, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly;

antoobrien

slimjimmc wrote: »

It's defined in the Road Traffic Act

Well then by that definition one is "parked" at a red light.

Corkbah

antoobrien wrote: »

But she wouldn't be causing you a problem because there was still somebody in the car available to move it if required. So why do they need the ticket when they are not causing an obstruction to the loading bay?

by that logic anyone can "park" anywhere and not pay - simply because there is someone in the car available to move it if required !!! ..... I'll bring my 17yr old around with me so I can put the car anywhere and he can move it if required ...do you take the same attitude to disabled bays ??

FFS - pay up and learn your lesson.

(after saying all that everyone is entitled to load/unload in a loading bay .... not just commercial vehicles and depending on the by-laws there is usually a grace period for parking, but in this case I believe the person who was parking was not loading/unloading and simply ignoring the rules and should pay the fine.)

OP - would it make a difference if it was a disabled bay and instead of a delivery driver being unable to park it would be someone with a disability ? (the person parking never sees the knock on effect of their BAD parking, a van driver might have to do a loop two or three times or a disabled person might have to park half a mile away in the next available bay)

antoobrien

Corkbah wrote: »

by that logic anyone can "park" anywhere and not pay - simply because there is someone in the car available to move it if required !!! ..... I'll bring my 17yr old around with me so I can put the car anywhere and he can move it if required ...do you take the same attitude to disabled bays ??

FFS - pay up and learn your lesson.

Interesting lack of logic, entering a parking zone (e.g. a car park) of any description requires payment. Although for street parking, if you can keep ahead of the wardens it will be possible to use your 17 year old in that fashion, I'd like to see you try something like that in the docks car park.

Corkbah wrote: »

(after saying all that everyone is entitled to load/unload in a loading bay .... not just commercial vehicles

Nope, in Galway commercial tax is required, I know a few people who had vehicles that had sign writing on them but were not commercially taxed (not sure why, but I think it was because the vehicles were bought primarily as family vehicles), so were done by the wardens.

Corkbah wrote: »

but in this case I believe the person who was parking was not loading/unloading and simply ignoring the rules and should pay the fine.)

That depends on the definition of loading/unloading. Buying anything in the shops makes it loading, so not technically illegal.

But since the car was not parked - as in the driver had not left it, I don't see the problem.

There is a serious lack of common sense from anybody who thinks that this is equivalent to parking the car, leaving it and wandering off for a half hour. There is no obstruction being caused here.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Well then by that definition one is "parked" at a red light.

Nonsense.

Who "keeps" or "leaves stationary" a car at a red light in traffic?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Nonsense.

Who "keeps" or "leaves stationary" a car at a red light in traffic?

Anybody waiting for the red light to change.

I've seen cases recently where a car is kept stationary through three cycles of lights (was caught behind it in a bus).

Corkbah

antoobrien wrote: »

Interesting lack of logic, entering a parking zone (e.g. a car park) of any description requires payment. Although for street parking, if you can keep ahead of the wardens it will be possible to use your 17 year old in that fashion, I'd like to see you try something like that in the docks car park.

lack of logic ???
ok - I was talking about on street parking and by park anywhere I meant, disabled bays, loading bays, single yellow lines, double yellow lines, clearways ...on street parking !!

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope, in Galway commercial tax is required, I know a few people who had vehicles that had sign writing on them but were not commercially taxed (not sure why, but I think it was because the vehicles were bought primarily as family vehicles), so were done by the wardens.

have you checked the by-laws ? or RSA approved rules of the road or are you basing it on hearsay, you said you know a few people .... but did those people tell you the full story or just their version of events ?? (is it possible that those people were bragging or unusually parked for a long time in loading bays - abusing the facility)

antoobrien wrote: »

That depends on the definition of loading/unloading. Buying anything in the shops makes it loading, so not technically illegal.

I stand corrected loading bays are for commercial vehicles only - ordinary cars can park on double yellows (in Dublin anyway) for a period of 30mins to load/unload a vehicle....and I do NOT consider popping into the shops as loading/unloading - thats shopping !!

Ask yourself this .... how is shopping loading/unloading ? .... while you are walking around inside the shop what are you doing ? what is your car doing ? ...answer... you are shopping while walking around inside the shop !! and while you are shopping your vehicle is parked (Illegally) ...so there is no "Technically" legal or illegal !!

antoobrien wrote: »

But since the car was not parked - as in the driver had not left it, I don't see the problem.

Don't try to find a loophole in the system saying it was not parked because the driver was still in it, you are asking for trouble by doing this, the car was stationary ...yes !
if the driver was in the vehicle why would the driver not simply drop the passenger off and drive around in the absence of a parking space (as per the rules of the road)

antoobrien wrote: »

There is a serious lack of common sense from anybody who thinks that this is equivalent to parking the car, leaving it and wandering off for a half hour. There is no obstruction being caused here.

its the exact same as leaving the car in a disabled bay - it doesn't matter if you have someone in the car or not - other drivers see the space "taken" by your vehicle which means they have to seek another space - so it has a knock on effect.

would you do the same in a disabled bay ? (its only popping into the shops ...right !!! )

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Anybody waiting for the red light to change.

I've seen cases recently where a car is kept stationary through three cycles of lights (was caught behind it in a bus).

A neat illustration of the inadvisability of relying on some people's notion of "common sense".

antoobrien

Corkbah wrote: »

lack of logic ???
ok - I was talking about on street parking and by park anywhere I meant, disabled bays, loading bays, single yellow lines, double yellow lines, clearways ...on street parking !!

Well thanks but we are talking about loading bays, so yes lack of logic applies.

Corkbah wrote: »

have you checked the by-laws ?

I worked for one of the people involved and I knew a few of the wardens before they retired.

Corkbah wrote: »

I stand corrected loading bays are for commercial vehicles only - ordinary cars can park on double yellows (in Dublin anyway) for a period of 30mins to load/unload a vehicle.

Am not they can't, double yellows are illegal at all times.

Corkbah wrote: »

...and I do NOT consider popping into the shops as loading/unloading - thats shopping !!

Nope, if they are putting anything into the car they are loading.

Corkbah wrote: »

Don't try to find a loophole in the system saying it was not parked because the driver was still in it, you are asking for trouble by doing this, the car was stationary ...yes !
if the driver was in the vehicle why would the driver not simply drop the passenger off and drive around in the absence of a parking space (as per the rules of the road)

Red light & double yellow line is the same thing.

Corkbah wrote: »

its the exact same as leaving the car in a disabled bay - it doesn't matter if you have someone in the car or not - other drivers see the space "taken" by your vehicle which means they have to seek another space - so it has a knock on effect.

The o.p. didn't leave the car, therefore the car was not parked or "left" anywhere.

Corkbah wrote: »

would you do the same in a disabled bay ? (its only popping into the shops ...right !!! )

No, but why are we talking about irrlevencies? Disabled spaces have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A neat illustration of the inadvisability of relying on some people's notion of "common sense".

Ah another great IWHism: stopping at a green light is common sense when the road is clear.:eek:

Corkbah

antoobrien wrote: »

Well thanks but we are talking about loading bays, so yes lack of logic applies.

it was you who brought up the "car park scenario"

antoobrien wrote: »

I worked for one of the people involved and I knew a few of the wardens before they retired.

that doesn't mean you know the full story - did any of these wardens tell you why they went after those "commercial vehicles" without commercial tax ???

antoobrien wrote: »

Am not they can't, double yellows are illegal at all times.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Parking/pages/wheretopark.aspx#double like I said !! in Dublin its ok for 30mins........looks like I'm right http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/RoadsandTraffic/Publications/FileEnglish,2237,en.pdf quick search is all it took !! ...have a look at PARKING RESTRICTIONS !!

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope, if they are putting anything into the car they are loading.

Yes - at that point in time putting stuff into a car can be considered loading, so when the person is in the shops they are NOT loading they are shopping !! and the vehicle is not being used for loading/unloading !!

antoobrien wrote: »

The o.p. didn't leave the car, therefore the car was not parked or "left" anywhere.

if the car is in a car parking space/loading bay/disabled bay ...anyone driving by looking for a space doesn't see someone who could be gone in a few mins they see a space taken ...so there is a knock on effect of bad "parking" which means others suffer !! ... or maybe its just some drivers are ignorant of others and dont care about other road users !!

antoobrien wrote: »

No, but why are we talking about irrlevencies? Disabled spaces have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

they have everything to do with it, the topic is about parking for a few mins (regardless of the space) to pop into the shop and if you (or family member) can get off a parking ticket, if you park or stop with a person capable of driving in the car in a disabled bay it has the same knock on effect - other drivers cannot use the space....doesn't matter if you pop into the shops for 30seconds, 5 mins or 30mins .... the "space" is occupied and unable to be used.

if I was to use another analogy ...driving in a bus lane ...is it illegal if there is already other cars in there ? is it illegal when there's no other traffic on the road ? is it illegal when you want to undertake someone ?

ANS: its illegal to use a bus lane (unless its in the specified times when its not operating as a bus lane) doesn't matter how many seconds you go into the bus lane, those seconds are illegal - same with parking in a loading bay - you may be shopping for a few mins but at that few mins your vehicle is parked and you are shopping....if you get a ticket from it - thats your fault for not finding a proper parking space and trying to do things faster (by breaking the law)

antoobrien

Corkbah wrote: »

they have everything to do with it, the topic is about parking for a few mins (regardless of the space)

No it's not regardless of the space, it's specifically about a ticket got while "parked" in a loading bay.

Would you like to get a ticket for being "parked" at a red light?

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Nope, if they are putting anything into the car they are loading.

SI 182/1997: Parking in Loading Bays.

"42. (1) Where traffic sign number RRM 009 [Loading Bay] is provided, a vehicle other than a goods vehicle being used for loading or unloading shall not be parked during a period which shall be indicated on an information plate.

(2) A goods vehicle being used for loading or unloading shall not be parked in a loading bay for a period exceeding 30 minutes."

Definition: "'goods vehicle' means a vehicle used exclusively for carrying goods and taxed for commercial purposes."

antoobrien wrote: »

Ah another great IWHism: stopping at a green light is common sense when the road is clear.:eek:

Quote/link please.

Play To Kill

antoobrien wrote: »

No it's not regardless of the space, it's specifically about a ticket got while "parked" in a loading bay.

Would you like to get a ticket for being "parked" at a red light?

There is a difference between being stopped at a red light due to the rules of the road an parking/stopping in a loading bay.

antoobrien

Play To Kill wrote: »

There is a difference between being stopped at a red light due to the rules of the road an parking/stopping in a loading bay.

Not if the definition of "parked" is accurate - "means keep or leave stationary". A car at a red light that is kept of left stationary is "parked".

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Quote/link please.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

antoobrien wrote: »

Anybody waiting for the red light to change.

I've seen cases recently where a car is kept stationary through three cycles of lights (was caught behind it in a bus).

A neat illustration of the inadvisability of relying on some people's notion of "common sense".

From a reading of the above, your notion of common senses includes staying stationary at a traffic light through multiple green lights. There is one case where this would be true, if the junction is blocked. The junction was clear for the occurrence I witnessed. I'm disappointed I wasn't able to get the reg of the offending vehicle.

Iwannahurl

Corkbah wrote: »

...so there is a knock on effect of bad "parking" which means others suffer !! ... or maybe its just some drivers are ignorant of others and dont care about other road users !!

they have everything to do with it, the topic is about parking for a few mins (regardless of the space) to pop into the shop and if you (or family member) can get off a parking ticket, if you park or stop with a person capable of driving in the car in a disabled bay it has the same knock on effect - other drivers cannot use the space....doesn't matter if you pop into the shops for 30seconds, 5 mins or 30mins .... the "space" is occupied and unable to be used.

[...]

you may be shopping for a few mins but at that few mins your vehicle is parked and you are shopping....if you get a ticket from it - thats your fault for not finding a proper parking space and trying to do things faster (by breaking the law)

The OP refers to an incident in Galway City. It's worth noting that Galway is teeming with motorists who believe that it's only "common sense" to be allowed to park (or indeed drive) as they please, if only for the proverbial "two minutes", or if they have their hazard warning lights on, or so emergency vehicles can get through, blah blah etc.

For purely practical purposes it is highly unlikely that most motorists illegally parked literally for a few minutes will ever be ticketed.

For many years now wardens have used their alleged discretion to ignore certain forms of illegal parking. Just recently Galway City Council approved by a large majority a motion mandating a "zero tolerance" approach to illegal parking.

It remains to be seen whether that policy will be, or can be, implemented, but I suspect it is a highly political issue and there will be a lot of power games played out. Zero Tolerance in relation to illegal parking will require some people in the public service to work a lot harder, as well as stepping on some important people's toes. One way of killing off such a policy would be to make sure that as many people as possible are seriously disgruntled. Perhaps the OP's experience is just a minor skirmish in the larger Zero Tolerance war...

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

From a reading of the above, your notion of common senses includes staying stationary at a traffic light through multiple green lights.

Your reading, your notions.

Please stop misrepresenting what I write. It's very juvenile.

As is this red herring:

antoobrien wrote: »

A car at a red light that is kept of left stationary is "parked".