galway deep water port

jamesdiver

http://www.galwaynews.ie/30753-scrap-%E2%82%AC200m-port-expansion-plans-taisce-head-urges

What are peoples thoughts on this? He does raise some very valid points, but at the same time, there are still many good points in favour of developing Galway docks. I think people think the argument is mainly hinged on the cruise liner trade, but I think this will only be a small contribution.

jenningso

An Taisce always make valid points alright, but always to the detriment of Galway City! Maybe it should be pointed out to An Taisce that Foynes is not a city with a nightlife, catering, accommodation, hospitality, tourism, entertainment, culture etc. Galway has to do what it can to develop itself for the future. An Taisce want us to stay in the dark ages. Ireland has an incredibly low population density and we have to put the infrastructure in place; there can be so much more scope for economic expansion on the west coast if we do develop, Limerick/Foynes included.

Storm 10

Agree about that group of knockers anything good for Galway is frowned upon, as pointed out Galway is a major tourist destination where liner traffic would benifit, Foynes is a commercial port and not a tourist destination.

An Taisce make me sick to be honest, OP this should be in the Galway forum where you would get much better feed back for the port development.

jamesdiver

Storm 10 wrote: »

Agree about that group of knockers anything good for Galway is frowned upon, as pointed out Galway is a major tourist destination where liner traffic would benifit, Foynes is a commercial port and not a tourist destination.

An Taisce make me sick to be honest, OP this should be in the Galway forum where you would get much better feed back for the port development.

If mod wants to move it, but I posted here in the hope of stimulating discussion with people in the maritime industry.
In my opinion, I think they should develop Galway port. If it increases traffic, then its a bonus. I know there are a few large research vessels that would love to use Galway for crew changes, mobilisation ports etc, but they cant due to the narrow entrance. Who knows, we could see supply ships in Galway all year round, and an active chopper port at Galway airport, like Aberdeen, if this gas exploration kicks off.

goldie fish

Just who are An Taisce anyway? What qualifies them to make decisions on the future look of Ireland? They seem to want Galway docks for Currachs and Hookers only...

Tabnabs

Is the deep water port just to accommodate cruise ships? Seems to be an expensive price tag if so.

One thing I would disagree strongly with is what Minsister Varadkar said:

“The business has changed,” said Minister Varadkar at the time. “It’s increasingly about big ships, really big ships, going in and out of deep water ports – not smaller ships going in and out of tidal ports. And that’s what really changed. That’s the way business is going.”

If this is the case, why are there still so many coasters plying the seas and inland waterways of Europe?

murphym7

jenningso wrote: »

An Taisce always make valid points alright, but always to the detriment of Galway City! Maybe it should be pointed out to An Taisce that Foynes is not a city with a nightlife, catering, accommodation, hospitality, tourism, entertainment, culture etc. Galway has to do what it can to develop itself for the future. An Taisce want us to stay in the dark ages. Ireland has an incredibly low population density and we have to put the infrastructure in place; there can be so much more scope for economic expansion on the west coast if we do develop, Limerick/Foynes included.

Investing 200 million into Galway to develop a cruise line industry does not make sense to me at all. Maybe if there was sufficient heavy industry around Galway, and more importantly if Foynes was not only a 6 hour steam away. For me, in the current climate it does not make sense.

jenningso

Galway needs adequate infrastructure and it's not just 200 million for a cruise line industry, you should read the plan. The fact is, more and more offshore oilfields will be drilled off the west coast of Ireland. If we take An Taisce and your short term vision into account, we won't put any infrastructure in place to take advantage of economic expansion when it comes and it will come. We are in an economic cycle and things will turn around. You might be speaking from a Cork point of view, but you must understand that I'm speaking from a Galway perspective and I want to see Galway keep it's sons and daughters employed locally if possible. We have room to grow in this country, infrastructural growth, economic growth and population growth; instead of seeing our brothers and sisters head for Australia and Canada, maybe we can keep them here?

murphym7 wrote: »

Investing 200 million into Galway to develop a cruise line industry does not make sense to me at all. Maybe if there was sufficient heavy industry around Galway, and more importantly if Foynes was not only a 6 hour steam away. For me, in the current climate it does not make sense.

Storm 10

murphym7 wrote: »

Investing 200 million into Galway to develop a cruise line industry does not make sense to me at all. Maybe if there was sufficient heavy industry around Galway, and more importantly if Foynes was not only a 6 hour steam away. For me, in the current climate it does not make sense.

Well now if you go by what you are saying then Limerick port should be closed as its just up the road from Foynes, The plan is a bigger port for larger ships, Trawlers,Marina and a cruise liner berth nothing wrong with that after all Galway is a major tourist stop off so the liners will come.

Tabnabs

jenningso wrote: »

Galway needs adequate infrastructure and it's not just 200 million for a cruise line industry, you should read the plan. The fact is, more and more offshore oilfields will be drilled off the west coast of Ireland.

Killybegs is already established as the west coast offshore supply base.

jenningso

Tabnabs wrote: »

Killybegs is already established as the west coast offshore supply base.

Motorway access, airport access, city life, night life, entertainment, pubs, clubs, restaurants, tourism etc. Sure Killybegs has it all!

goldie fish

Tabnabs wrote: »

Is the deep water port just to accommodate cruise ships? Seems to be an expensive price tag if so.

One thing I would disagree strongly with is what Minsister Varadkar said:



If this is the case, why are there still so many coasters plying the seas and inland waterways of Europe?

They are feeding the bigger ships. It adds to the overall shipping cost, as economies of scale get tighter. The Triple-E class of container ship is an example of that. The reason the coasters still do so much near conti and inland waterways trade is again economies of scale. It is far cheaper to ship 4000 tonnes of building cement up the Albert Canal than using 200 truckloads to carry the same load. We need a deepwater port on the west coast, otherwise we will need a fleet of smaller shuttles to bring everything we need from the UK or Europort. 95% of our freight comes by sea.

Tabnabs

jenningso wrote: »

Motorway access, airport access, city life, night life, entertainment, pubs, clubs, restaurants, tourism etc. Sure Killybegs has it all!

Yeah, all the things the oil majors look for when looking to invest in shore facilities... Killybegs may not be up to your standards, but it has the business that Galway doesn't and lies in a geographically more advantageous location to the existing North Sea fleet.

Tabnabs

goldie fish wrote: »

They are feeding the bigger ships. It adds to the overall shipping cost, as economies of scale get tighter. The Triple-E class of container ship is an example of that. The reason the coasters still do so much near conti and inland waterways trade is again economies of scale. It is far cheaper to ship 4000 tonnes of building cement up the Albert Canal than using 200 truckloads to carry the same load. We need a deepwater port on the west coast, otherwise we will need a fleet of smaller shuttles to bring everything we need from the UK or Europort. 95% of our freight comes by sea.

We already have the shortsea fleet in place though. And what large urban conurbation will a deepwater port on the west coast serve? Liverpool would be more realistic, if not domestically palatable.

The good minister would do well to remember his EU masters 'Motorways of the Sea' transport initiative.

goldie fish

Its their Idea.
Port of Cork have similar plans. The industry is demanding it, if we want to keep shipping costs down.

323

Tabnabs wrote: »

Killybegs is already established as the west coast offshore supply base.

Agree with Tabnabs, geographic well located, natural harbour, very deep new pier, existing established shore support and No Unions

jenningso wrote: »

Motorway access, airport access, city life, night life, entertainment, pubs, clubs, restaurants, tourism etc. Sure Killybegs has it all!

Moterway and Airport Access: Not great but far from the worst, Both Belfast airports less than 2 1/2 hours, from there connect to anywhere. For example, a couple of crew changes have done this last year or so, airport to vessel.
Schiphol to Den Helder, similar
Cairo to Alexandria, longer
New Orleans to Fouchon, similar
Accra to Takoradi, much longer
Can connect through Donegal or Sligo but actually take longer to get anywhere in UK or beyond.

city life, night life, entertainment, pubs, clubs, restaurants
Not a concern of operations. Enjoy a run ashore as much as anyone. But much as I hate having to admit it, a potential health and safety nightmare for the Captain, Offshore Manager, shore project management and client.

goldie fish

Derry has Quite a decent airport too for crew transports. Not too far from Killybegs. A bit more substantial than Oranmore.

jamesdiver

What other business could Galway expect with a deep water port? Would they have container facilities? If it goes ahead, and is as successful as they hope, would it affect future applications for Volvo Ocean Race stopovers etc?

One last question, what are the berthing fees like around Ireland, i.e. would a company pick another cheaper port, with the same facilities, say for the sake of a 50m steam?

cheers,

James

goldie fish

No point having container facilities unless you have a good road network to serve the whole country. Unfortunately Galway routes only lead to Dublin or the next nearest Large town.

vulcan57

goldie fish wrote: »

No point having container facilities unless you have a good road network to serve the whole country. Unfortunately Galway routes only lead to Dublin or the next nearest Large town.

Tis true, but everything that comes to Galway container wise has to trundle across the country on hundreds of trucks. If containers for the West could be bought to Galway that would take a lot of heavy trucks off the road. Also, a spur rail line out onto the new development is also planned, I believe, so good opertunity to utilise rail freight If the mindset was there. Also at the moment we have two tankers, Forth Fisher and Galway Fisher plying continuously between Galway and Whitegate with oil. Practically every other day there is one or the other in here. Wouldn't it be cheaper and more economical to have one larger vessel say every 10 days or so?

goldie fish

Not really, the Fisher tankers are the largest that can go to berth 2 at whitegate. If they have to go to berth 1, then a larger tanker, supplying the facility has to wait outside the harbour.
As for spur lines, CIE aren't doing rail freight any more. All their freight rolling stock is gone too. Does someone else have the knowledge, and funding to do so when Iarnrod Eireann lines are not in use?

who the fug

vulcan57 wrote: »

Tis true, but everything that comes to Galway container wise has to trundle across the country on hundreds of trucks. If containers for the West could be bought to Galway that would take a lot of heavy trucks off the road. Also, a spur rail line out onto the new development is also planned, I believe, so good opertunity to utilise rail freight If the mindset was there. Also at the moment we have two tankers, Forth Fisher and Galway Fisher plying continuously between Galway and Whitegate with oil. Practically every other day there is one or the other in here. Wouldn't it be cheaper and more economical to have one larger vessel say every 10 days or so?

Do you have storage onshore to hold oil for 10 days?

Storm 10

CITY COUNCIL TO BECOME SHAREHOLDERS IN GALWAY HARBOUR

March 26, 2013 - 6:15pm


The operation of Galway harbour is to change with Galway city council to take a shareholding
Galway is one of 14 ports nationwide which is to be placed within a local authority led governance structure
The commercial mandate of ports will remain and they will be expected to turn a profit, pay a dividend and will not receive Exchequer grants.
The plans to radically overhaul Ireland's commercial ports and give Government a more hands-on role in the maritime ports sector were announced today by Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport Leo Varadkar.
The five State Ports of Regional Significance - Galway, Drogheda, New Ross, Wicklow and Dún Laoghaire – retain important regional roles as regional freight distribution hubs, but also increasingly important roles in areas such as marine leisure and tourism.