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Engine and Gearbox warranty

  • 19-03-2013 10:10AM
    #1
    woodseb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭


    Have some trouble with the car that seems to be leaking coolant - it's still under warranty that covers engine and gearbox

    would you expect the radiator to be covered too?


Comments

  • #2
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    In a word - No.


  • #3
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    woodseb wrote: »
    .. - it's still under warranty that covers engine and gearbox ...
    Dodgey dealers offering this form of warranty are doing so contrary to consumer law.

    The Sale of Goods and supply of Services Act 1980 specifies that the product (the entire car) they sell must be :
    • as described
    • fit for purpose
    • of merchantable quality.
    These so-called dealers are not allowed to decide what bits of the car are "under warranty". The car, all of it, must fit the criteria set down in law or the "dealer" must fix the problem at his own expense. There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    More info: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

    Cue all the "dealers" on boards.ie having their usual rants now, but not one of them will quote a piece of legislation in support of their dealer-centered opinions.


  • #4
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    In a word - No.
    To use a more suitable word, nonsense.


  • #5
    woodseb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭woodseb


    mathepac wrote: »
    Dodgey dealers offering this form of warranty are doing so contrary to consumer law.

    The Sale of Goods and supply of Services Act 1980 specifies that the product (the entire car) they sell must be :
    • as described
    • fit for purpose
    • of merchantable quality.
    These so-called dealers are not allowed to decide what bits of the car are "under warranty". The car, all of it, must fit the criteria set down in law or the "dealer" must fix the problem at his own expense. There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    More info: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

    Cue all the "dealers" on boards.ie having their usual rants now, but not one of them will quote a piece of legislation in support of their dealer-centered opinions.

    sorry, so a dealer has to give a warranty that covers all parts of the car and for an unlimited time? i find that very hard to believe - things break - its a fact of life, i just need to know if they will cover the repair

    in this case it was a 5 year old second hand car with a 6 month warranty, and has been fine for 5 months....


  • #6
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Take it back and say you think the rad is leaking. It could be an easy fix which they'll do for nothing. Or it could be something big.
    Either way, get it diagnosed and then start the uphill climb on whether it's under warranty or not, imo.


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  • #7
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    woodseb wrote: »
    sorry, so a dealer has to give a warranty that covers all parts of the car and for an unlimited time? .......
    Where did I say that in my post?
    woodseb wrote: »
    ... i find that very hard to believe ....
    I find it hard to believe as well, which is why I didn't post what you dreamed up.
    woodseb wrote: »
    ... i just need to know if they will cover the repair ....
    I have no idea what they will agree to, I just wanted to equip you with your rights in law before you approached them, as your OP indicates you don't know your basic rights.
    woodseb wrote: »
    ... in this case it was a 5 year old second hand car with a 6 month warranty, and has been fine for 5 months....
    None of which matters as the "dealer" doesn't lay down your rights in law.

    An anti-consumer rights consumer, now that bates Bannagher! And you're welcome BTW.


  • #8
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    An engine and gearbox warranty won't and can't cover ancilliaries such as clutches and rads and hoses, which are in my view at least consumables i.e. wearing parts.

    If the engine or box suffer a catastrophic failure however they should be covered.


  • #9
    woodseb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭woodseb


    mathepac wrote: »
    Where did I say that in my post?
    I find it hard to believe as well, which is why I didn't post what you dreamed up.
    I have no idea what they will agree to, I just wanted to equip you with your rights in law before you approached them, as your OP indicates you don't know your basic rights.
    None of which matters as the "dealer" doesn't lay down your rights in law.

    An anti-consumer rights consumer, now that bates Bannagher! And you're welcome BTW.

    I am aware of my rights, i just don't agree with your interpretation, particulary these parts
    These so-called dealers are not allowed to decide what bits of the car are "under warranty". The car, all of it, must fit the criteria set down in law or the "dealer" must fix the problem at his own expense. There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    what i'm interested in is what actually is the practice in the industry before i engage in what could be a fruitless arguement with a dealer while my car lies idle


  • #10
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    ... which are in my view at least consumables ....
    But it's not your view that's needed here, it's clarity on Irish / EU consumer law.
    woodseb wrote: »
    I am aware of my rights, i just don't agree with your interpretation, particulary these parts ...
    Clearly, based on your OP, you are not aware of your consumer rights as you quoted the illegal limitations the "dealer" has attempted to place on those rights.
    woodseb wrote: »
    ...
    what i'm interested in is what actually is the practice in the industry before i engage in what could be a fruitless arguement with a dealer while my car lies idle
    The industry practice for years has been to deny the consumer his rights under law and and to place time limits and to restrict the parts of the car they "warranted" or "guaranteed"; both are illegal attempts to limit the consumer's rights to suit dodgey business practices.

    I provided a link where you can check these rights independently of me or anyone else. If you have chosen not to read them, then unfortunately like other customers suckered by the motor industry for years, I can only commiserate with you if you have an unsatisfactory outcome to your breakdown.


  • #11
    woodseb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭woodseb


    have you any concrete examples of warranties like this been found illegal in Irish courts and the consumer receiving restitution? You've admitted there's no clarity on the law.

    In my experience, warranties are often highly conditional on not covering every eventuallity, excluding wear and tear items, accidental damage etc etc

    the link you provided does not cover all areas and specifically refers to faults found after I bought the car - it doesn't state that it covers all faults that occur after the car is bought

    As a consumer you have the same rights if you buy an item second hand as if it is new. In this case if you find a fault with the car after you have bought it the dealer is the person who must set matters right.

    also if you follow the further link http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=133&n=177&a=349

    it also gives further definitions and clarifications
    Of merchantable quality – it should be of reasonable, acceptable quality given the age and history of the car

    Bare in mind my car is 5+ years old with usual mileage and was fine for 5 months
    Contact the seller immediately and ask what they intend to do about the problem. If the car is under warranty, check the terms and conditions to see what it says about the seller’s obligations. Your normal consumer rights may still apply.

    why do they mention warranty terms & conditions when you said they are illegal?


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  • #12
    Xpro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Xpro


    mathepac wrote: »
    Dodgey dealers offering this form of warranty are doing so contrary to consumer law.

    The Sale of Goods and supply of Services Act 1980 specifies that the product (the entire car) they sell must be :
    • as described
    • fit for purpose
    • of merchantable quality.
    These so-called dealers are not allowed to decide what bits of the car are "under warranty". The car, all of it, must fit the criteria set down in law or the "dealer" must fix the problem at his own expense. There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    More info: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

    Cue all the "dealers" on boards.ie having their usual rants now, but not one of them will quote a piece of legislation in support of their dealer-centered opinions.

    You seem to be under some illusion here.

    This days to many people use the The Sale of Goods and supply of Services Act, mostly as a threat but themselves dont really know what it stands for.

    When you buy goods brand new, you will be fully covered. As expected, brand new item!

    Bear in mind " of merchantable quality"
    On a second hand vehicle means it will be just that. Not a new, nor expected to act as a new car. Will drive and serve its purpose, and should not break down, but wear and tear, mileage and vehicle age will be all taken in consideration.

    Quote: There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    Can you provide a further proof to support your statment?

    You can`t, beacuse its not true.

    Warranty is a legal aggrement between two parties, and will serve for the period agreed.

    So whats the point of the warranties if you say there is no time limit?

    I have an 05 car at home, injector is gone. Must bring it back to dealers and see it they will still honour ther warranty. If not i will quote the famous Sale of goods Act:D


  • #13
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    mathepac wrote: »
    But it's not your view that's needed here, it's clarity on Irish / EU consumer law....

    I can only give my view on them mac, the very same as you.

    Ultimately someone's interpretation of what is/isn't covered will determine liability or otherwise.


  • #14
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Xpro wrote: »
    You seem to be under some illusion here. ...
    No I'm not, but there are some delusional posts in the thread.
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... but themselves dont really know what it stands for. ...
    Rather like yourself and some other posters here. Have you read it? Do you understand it?
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... Will drive and serve its purpose, and should not break down, but wear and tear, mileage and vehicle age will be all taken in consideration. ...
    OP's car does not drive and does not serve it's purpose as it has broken down. All those criteria you mention will certainly be taken into account but it's not up to a dealer to interpret the law his way.
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... Quote: There is no set time-limit for this either, so a "dealer" who tries to put a time-limit on a "warranty" or "guarantee" is also in breach of consumer law.

    Can you provide a further proof to support your statment?

    You can`t, beacuse its not true. ...
    It is true and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else, but you can by reading the link I already provided which in turn links to the statutes concerned. It would take less time than posting nonsense here but apparently you prefer to post the nonsense rather than inform yourself.
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... Warranty is a legal aggrement between two parties, and will serve for the period agreed...
    No issue there but the bit you and others miss out on is that an agreed warranty is in addition to a conumer's rights in law, it cannot replace or diminish them.

    The warranty has to be agreed either implicitly or explicitly, it is not the "dealer's" right to impose it. If a dealer says "I'll give you six month's warranty of the engine and gear-box" and the consumer says "No, I'll take my chances with the SOGASOSA 1980" it changes nothing, the consumer still has the right to go to law if the car breaks down. If the consumer says "Grand so" it changes his rights not one whit.
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... So whats the point of the warranties if you say there is no time limit? ...
    I never ever posted that there was no time limit - READ WHAT I POSTED AGAIN. Why is it so many posters here seem to need reading glasses?
    Xpro wrote: »
    ... I have an 05 car at home, injector is gone. Must bring it back to dealers and see it they will still honour ther warranty. If not i will quote the famous Sale of goods Act:D
    I doubt very much if you'll be able to quote a single relevant word to the dealer. Like other posters you seem to think you know your rights; I somehow doubt it based on your ill-informed post. Try http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html first as a guide.

    While this sort of negativity persists with car-buyers in this country, the dodgy dealers are laughing at you, all the way to the bank with your money.


  • #15
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    ... Ultimately someone's interpretation of what is/isn't covered will determine liability or otherwise.
    100% correct, no argument.

    Ultimately the courts are the only ones eligible to interpret laws, but what gets me riled up is the way people are like lambs to the slaughter allowing dodgy car-dealers to interpret the law for them and getting screwed as a consequence.

    The apathy of consumers is what has allowed dealers to make profits out of wrecks sold with a "three-month warranty".


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