Sub soiler

hugo29

Anyone used a sub spoiler and how did you find it

delaval

We got some done last year outstanding success. We did 40 acres that had been in maize for years and had a plough pan. We reseeded and seeds initally flew but struggled in july wet. Contractor charged €45/acre. We also did a small area where water lies every year and none lay there this winter.

We have a few poor performing paddocks that we will do this year

Muckit

delaval wrote: »

We got some done last year outstanding success. We did 40 acres that had been in maize for years and had a plough pan. We reseeded and seeds initally flew but struggled in july wet. Contractor charged €45/acre. We also did a small area where water lies every year and none lay there this winter.

We have a few poor performing paddocks that we will do this year

Will you get a contractor for this delaval or would you think about buying your own?

stanflt

last august before a single leg mole plough


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after


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did the maize field with this three legged 2weeks ago- field has dried up unbelievably well

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Muckit

Hi Stanfit

I remember you posting those pics before.... very impressive.

Did you mole into a drain or no? Did you shake any grass seed where those tracks were?

Conflats

Before using a subsoiler dig a few holes randomly around the field to see if you actually need to do it

If you subsoil when its too wet you will smear the soil and make the problem worse and cause bigger trouble.

try a subsoiler with winged shares gives better shattering ability than a flat share

hugo29

Conflats wrote: »

Before using a subsoiler dig a few holes randomly around the field to see if you actually need to do it

If you subsoil when its too wet you will smear the soil and make the problem worse and cause bigger trouble.

try a subsoiler with winged shares gives better shattering ability than a flat share

its the opposite, its on a hill and ground has gotten to compacted, i mulched all the rushes saturday, i was going to mole plough into drain but contractor thinks i would be better to sub soil it, costs €40 a acre, i intend to overseed the fields in april

hugo29

stanflt wrote: »

last august before a single leg mole plough


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after


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did the maize field with this three legged 2weeks ago- field has dried up unbelievably well

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looks very good

delaval

Muckit wrote: »

Will you get a contractor for this delaval or would you think about buying your own?

Our contractor has a 5 leg one. Our tractor wouldn't have a hope!!
I did not have any idea of benefits 'till we tried it. Looking at Stan's pics I would be tempted to consider one.

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Our contractor has a 5 leg one. Our tractor wouldn't have a hope!!
I did not have any idea of benefits 'till we tried it. Looking at Stan's pics I would be tempted to consider one.

What sort of soil depth have ye delaval? How deep did you run the machine. We were talking about this on way to discussion meeting today wondering whether an aerator would be of benefit. A lot of ours wouldn't take a subsoiler I think, too much rock too close to the surface. But there's definitely compaction from grazing in poor condidtions last year.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

What sort of soil depth have ye delaval? How deep did you run the machine. We were talking about this on way to discussion meeting today wondering whether an aerator would be of benefit. A lot of ours wouldn't take a subsoiler I think, too much rock too close to the surface. But there's definitely compaction from grazing in poor condidtions last year.

Freedom I will contact him to find out depth as I have no idea. Field was a bit unlevel after but nothing a roller couldn't fix. It also brought up a few big stones in another field nothing major. If you have limestone near surface would compaction be an issue ?

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Freedom I will contact him to find out depth as I have no idea. Field was a bit unlevel after but nothing a roller couldn't fix. It also brought up a few big stones in another field nothing major. If you have limestone near surface would compaction be an issue ?

It's sandstone:D but maybe compaction is the wrong word or maybe not as you would understand it as in not a layer down in the subsoil caused by heavy machinery more in the top couple of inches caused by a lot of animal traffic in poor conditions. We wouldn't get too much poaching with deep hoof marks in topsoil other than on a few lowlying wet paddocks. We used a type of subsoiler on maize ground before. It was a rig with around 10 legs similar to plough beams but with a narrow tip only a couple of inches wide. Dramatic results though, but not suitable for grassland unless reseeding.

just do it

stanflt wrote: »

did the maize field with this three legged 2weeks ago- field has dried up unbelievably well

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Hey Stan

That 3 legged looks more like a mole plough than a sub-soiler, is that right?

Nobbies

i did anumber of fields back in autumn 09,was heavy ground and had been poached during that summer,early winter 09 after that was very wet but the ground always appeared too drain well.but i think the real benefit was the following spring when the fields done grew more grass than ever had up too that.even yet i still think it stands too them from agrowing grass point of view.but i don,t think its up there with the plough and good shores for drainage.

raffopj

I'm just wondering why everyone has gone from Moleploughing to subsoiling as a drainage solution?
Surely a moleplough will have longer lasting benefits for drainage?
IMO subsoiling is great for lifting the pan and helps get the fertiliser/nutrients into the soil helping crop/grass growth but after some traffic its all compacted again?

I could be completely wrong. Just an opinion.

Muckit

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

Well wear.

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!

I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

Well wear and best of luck with it




.... but now for the questions How much did it set you back and what HP do you need to pull it?

just do it

how far from a drain will a mole drain work?

stanflt

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

Did you get the special offer of 2 free tickets to Bon jovi with it. Best of luck looks a nice machine- we've ours 40 years so they last

Muckit

stanflt wrote: »

Did you get the special offer of 2 free tickets to Bon jovi with it.

Your talking to the king of hagglers! I got 4:D

Muckit

just do it wrote: »

How much did it set you back and what HP do you need to pull it?

PM sent

pakalasa

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy ...'

Ah c'mon, how much? Share the pain.

Conor556

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

What dept does it have to be set to to work properly

tismesoitis

was looking at the very same machine in a local dealers place. He was talking about €1500 b4 haggling and no talk of bon jovi ticks. trying to convince the auld lad to make a move. Using stanflt's before and after photos as leverage:D:D. How does price compare Muckit??

raffopj

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

What dealer did you buy it from?

Conor556 wrote: »

What dept does it have to be set to to work properly

It all depends on the soil and condition but I think 14" to 18" is whats recommended for most soil types.

tismesoitis wrote: »

was looking at the very same machine in a local dealers place. He was talking about €1500 b4 haggling and no talk of bon jovi ticks. trying to convince the auld lad to make a move. Using stanflt's before and after photos as leverage:D:D. How does price compare Muckit??

Again what dealer are you pricing from? Or where are you located?

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

My new toy

After a long time thinging about it and borrowing a neighbours homemade one, I bet the bullet and bought one!





I know it's a little wet yet, but I just had to test it out on these tracks left after slurry tanker last 'summer.'

Well Muckit, your initial impressions?

I've been talking with a mate of mine and we may be mole ploughing in a few weeks if it stays dry.

Muckit

[/URL]

Seeing is believing. No I didn't miss bits with the spinner The dark green lines are directly over the moles.
And really I shouldn't have been out with it when I did

moy83

Is there a ridge in the ground where the mole was pulled or is it all grass ? That mole plough will get stick over the summer id say

Muckit

Yes there's a bit of a ridge, but I left it on purpose. Really I should have a run in the middle of these and that way you's be driving your wheel over the last one to close it in, but I purposely left them open to drain more water away. I've ran on it with chain harrow and will be borrowing the neighbours roller for an hour or two this week.

Oh and yes I will be workin the be jaysus out of it if we get a half decent summer !! Straight into silage ground once the pit is covered

agriman27

Muckit wrote: »

Yes there's a bit of a ridge, but I left it on purpose. Really I should have a run in the middle of these and that way you's be driving your wheel over the last one to close it in, but I purposely left them open to drain more water away. I've ran on it with chain harrow and will be borrowing the neighbours roller for an hour or two this week.

Oh and yes I will be workin the be jaysus out of it if we get a half decent summer !! Straight into silage ground once the pit is covered

Hello muckit. I bought a mole plough similar to yours two years ago. I found I had good results in some fields but if there is an underlying drainage problem like a spring or a boil up from a collapsed or blocked shore the mole ploughing is a waste of time. But it's a brilliant job to link up shores and bust up compaction. You (or ur silage contractor )will defiantly notice the moles in ur silage fields for over a year takes a good while to settle back right. I don't know whether you will think the same but I find mine is a bit difficult to control on the linkage. I am thinking about fitting ground wheels to mine because we have hilly ground. I feel she would follow the contours of the ground better.

moy83

Will the hole close up again if you roll the ground over it after its has set and formed ?
If there was a small roller going along the top of the mole would it help to keep the ground flat and the mole form more solidly or would it hinder the pan busting aspect of things ?

Muckit

agriman27 wrote: »

Hello muckit. I bought a mole plough similar to yours two years ago. I found I had good results in some fields but if there is an underlying drainage problem like a spring or a boil up from a collapsed or blocked shore the mole ploughing is a waste of time. But it's a brilliant job to link up shores and bust up compaction. You (or ur silage contractor )will defiantly notice the moles in ur silage fields for over a year takes a good while to settle back right. I don't know whether you will think the same but I find mine is a bit difficult to control on the linkage. I am thinking about fitting ground wheels to mine because we have hilly ground. I feel she would follow the contours of the ground better.

Bit of a catch 22, if I hadn't mole ploughed, I'd have no grass! I don't think it's going to matter a whole pile. The surface won't be flat as it could but half a loaf is better than no bread.

agriman27

moy83 wrote: »

Will the hole close up again if you roll the ground over it after its has set and formed ?
If there was a small roller going along the top of the mole would it help to keep the ground flat and the mole form more solidly or would it hinder the pan busting aspect of things ?

It's hard to know whether it would close it. I think it depends on the depth the leg is down and how soft the ground is. If the ground is dry enough the wheel of the tractor won't put it back down its unreal the bustin up it gives it.

iverjohnston

Have an old Ransomes trailed mole plough. Pull it with a JD3350, its not so much the HP as the grip you can get which is the limiting factor. These old ones lift themselves out of the ground by a cranking action as the wheels go round, so if you get the tractor stuck, you have no forward motion, so cannot lift the plough! I found that you do not want too big an expander, one about 2 inches bigger than the mole leaves a more stable finished "pipe".

When new and in their prime these were usually sold to match up wit a Cat D2. Which I think were about 40HP.

MfMan

Would a 2wd 390 pull one?

agriman27

MfMan wrote: »

Would a 2wd 390 pull one?

Afraid not lad. Well not at a dept that would be any good. 4wd is a must.

GERMAN ROCKS

Muckit wrote: »

[/URL]

Seeing is believing. No I didn't miss bits with the spinner The dark green lines are directly over the moles.
And really I shouldn't have been out with it when I did

looks great. when was this field done and was it grazed since and given much fertilizer? recently reseeded?

f140

I have free draining enough soil. I can suffer more so from drought if ita a dry summer. is it any good for that. I know we haven't had it dry now with a long time but that's the way. is it any good for old grass seeds? can you do it on grass and still have the land available for grazing?

Muckit

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

looks great. when was this field done and was it grazed since and given much fertilizer? recently reseeded?

Reseeded??!! That's old pasture. Had 2' of water in most of it over the winter. It got slurry in the backend and 2.5 bags of richland in april. It was a around Paddy's day when I attacked it with the mole plough.

iverjohnston

MfMan wrote: »

Would a 2wd 390 pull one?

It might with a good set of duals on the back, might have to load the tractors back tyres with water as well.
Handier to borrow a 4wd probably.
You will have to wait till the ground is dry enough to travel on without damage.
The trick is, not to cause more damage with your tractors wheels, than you are curing with the mole!

And one of the benefits of a trailed mole plough, preferably with a good long drawbar, is that your tractors wheels will hopefully be on a dry area by the time the mole hits a wetter patch.

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

Bit of a catch 22, if I hadn't mole ploughed, I'd have no grass! I don't think it's going to matter a whole pile. The surface won't be flat as it could but half a loaf is better than no bread.

A straight ridge is better than a field badly poached!

just do it

Regarding flattening/ closing over the ridge, I thought this was a no no as part of the drainage action is via the slit in the ground down to the channel?