Citroen C4 - Worth it?

sydneybound

Herself is due a new car shortly, well new to her about 3/4 year old and looking at the Citroen C4 (exact model Citroen C4 1.6 HDi 110 VTR Plus - 2010) however she has been put off by a neighbour who warned about a lack of reliability and issues about selling it on in a few years.
  
MPG seems brilliant 75 extra urban and 48 urban. They don't look a bad car either.

Can anyone offer any advice?

Bpmull

sydneybound wrote: »

Herself is due a new car shortly, well new to her about 3/4 year old and looking at the Citroen C4 (exact model Citroen C4 1.6 HDi 110 VTR Plus - 2010) however she has been put off by a neighbour who warned about a lack of reliability and issues about selling it on in a few years.
  
MPG seems brilliant 75 extra urban and 48 urban. They don't look a bad car either.

Can anyone offer any advice?

I have a focus which has practically the same engine mine is 90 bhp so its a little slower than the 110 bhp. You won't ever see 75 mpg anyway at absolute most 60mpg and that would be very long drives. The 110 bhp would probably have a dpf which can cause trouble. What type of driving does your wife do and how many km per year roughly.

George Dalton

As above, 75mpg is pure fantasy. Low to mid 50's would be more realistic.

The C4 isn't a bad car, they are under-rated by a lot of people. They probably aren't altogether as reliable or as well screwed together as a Golf or a Focus but on the other hand they are cheaper to buy.

I don't like the old one at all, but the new one isn't bad, the older one wasn't the best quality either.

The new one fro 2011 is supposed to be a massive improvement in every way.

Does your wife/partner do the miles to justify the hassles of modern diesels ? Is it worth the premium ? Is it worth the risk of high repair bills as it gets older ?

keithsfleet

Only bought my mother a 2007 c4 1.6 petrol 4 weeks ago. Was driving it for a week and it thoroughly surprised me.
Decent power and comfortable with a certain degree stiffness on windy roads.
She hasn't really had it long enough for me to comment on the reliability but I can't see to much failing.
Nice looking car as well, would certainly pick it over the same year focus or golf.

sydneybound

Shes going to be driving 70k on the N5 weekdays for work so not exactly motorway driving, and the odd long trip down the country here and there on weekends. She reckons it will be cheaper to run than most petrol cars.

There a good bit cheaper than a focus/golf, decent deals in the UK too.

Hassles of modern diesels - what do you mean by that?

shamwari

George Dalton wrote: »

As above, 75mpg is pure fantasy. Low to mid 50's would be more realistic.

The C4 isn't a bad car, they are under-rated by a lot of people. They probably aren't altogether as reliable or as well screwed together as a Golf or a Focus but on the other hand they are cheaper to buy.

Agree 100% with this. The DV6 engine has a questionable reputation for reliability. However, IMO the single biggest contributor to this is where they don't have their oil changed regularly and using the right oil too (meeting the low ash spec).

My wife's Ford C-Max (115,000 miles on the clock) has the same engine as the C4 and with the DPF too. It works hard for living but gets an oil & filter changes every 7,500 miles or twice yearly. The turbo, DPF, DMF and injectors are all original. The engine still has plenty of power, no smoke and averages 50mpg.

OP, if that C4 is at the right money and has been properly serviced then its got to be worth a look.

sydneybound

sydneybound wrote: »

Shes going to be driving 70k on the N5 weekdays for work so not exactly motorway driving, and the odd long trip down the country here and there on weekends. She reckons it will be cheaper to run than most petrol cars.

There a good bit cheaper than a focus/golf, decent deals in the UK too.

Hassles of modern diesels - what do you mean by that?

Okay, the difference between a Diesel car getting 55 mpg to a petrol car getting 44 mpg is only 3.9 kms per litre.

Your partner will be doing 70 kms round trip per day ? =16,800 per year or 48 weeks, so will we average it out and say 20,000 kms a year including non work related driving ?

right so, 20,000 kms a year will need @44 mpg 1252 Litres of Petrol costing €2003 Euro's @1.60 a Litre

You would need 1027 litres for the 55 mpg diesel costing 1591 @ 1.55 a litre.

The difference is 412 Euro's.

I was looking on carzone, and I can see a difference of up to 3 grand for the diesel 1.6 over the petrol 1.6 with around 50,000 miles.

So if you spend 3 k on a diesel car that gets 55 mpg over the petrols 44 mpg it would take 7.5 years to make up the difference.

If you have a particle filter, dual mass flywheel etc, and they end up going, or injectors, etc. is diesel really a worth while option ?

You might pay a bit extra tax on the petrol, but that might bring the pay back down to 6.5-7 years.

I'd much rather the much smoother petrols over the diesels any day.

Now people would get more or less mpg in either the petrol or diesel but to calculate properly you need to reset your mpg counter and never reset it as that's what gives the real life mpg of your car, at least reset after every tank but resetting it after every trip is meaningless.

shamwari

shamwari wrote: »

Agree 100% with this. The DV6 engine has a questionable reputation for reliability. However, IMO the single biggest contributor to this is where they don't have their oil changed regularly and using the right oil too (meeting the low ash spec).

My wife's Ford C-Max (115,000 miles on the clock) has the same engine as the C4 and with the DPF too. It works hard for living but gets an oil & filter changes every 7,500 miles or twice yearly. The turbo, DPF, DMF and injectors are all original. The engine still has plenty of power, no smoke and averages 50mpg.

OP, if that C4 is at the right money and has been properly serviced then its got to be worth a look.

There is no scientific evidence that replacing your oil is any good for your car after such low mileage and ends up costing you more.

My old B6 A4 used the long life oil every 15k -20 K miles and the engine was still good after 200,000 miles.

granted for very low mileage school/shop run cars it may be better but not for a car that's getting proper use.

Get your oil analysed before you throw money away.

If you use the correct spec oil for your car you should not need to change the oil much earlier.

George Dalton

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay, the difference between a Diesel car getting 55 mpg to a petrol car getting 44 mpg is only 3.9 kms per litre.

Plenty of C4 sized diesels will do a real-world 55mpg. What C4 sized petrol car will do a real-world 44mpg? None I have ever driven will. 44mpg from a petrol is like 75mpg from a diesel. It is technically possible but not a realistic expectation.

George, I can't say because I've only driven the 1.6 in the C4 once and in the 308 a few times, that's the same engine isn't it ? I haven't driven the petrols.

Anyway in My sisters 308 it manages 55 mpg over around 20k miles she's had it, and that's real mpg and not bad. It's not a bad engine but it's rough.

I've read people getting 35-40+ in the 1.6 petrol C4, and as low as 40 odd in the diesel.

I can get 31 mpg in my Girlfriends 2.0L CRV so I can't imagine not getting 40+ in the C4 1.6.

I do wonder how people calculate their mpg though.

But even if you got 35-40 mpg in the petrol that might be 4-5 years for payback, really is it worth it ?

With the risks of washed diesel, injector problems, dpf dmf etc is it worth it ? you might save 450-500 euro's a year over 20,000 kms at most, the very most.

George Dalton

Deleted User wrote: »

But even if you got 35-40 mpg in the petrol that might be 4-5 years for payback, really is it worth it ?

With the risks of washed diesel, injector problems, dpf dmf etc is it worth it ? you might save 450-500 euro's a year over 20,000 kms at most, the very most.

I agree in principle with what you are saying but I just think 44mpg is a bit optimistic from a petrol car of that size. 35-40mpg is more like it.

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

I agree in principle with what you are saying but I just think 44mpg is a bit optimistic from a petrol car of that size. 35-40mpg is more like it.

Maybe, I can't say as I've never driven them and it depends on so much, but getting 31 mpg in a CRV, surely I could get 40+ in a much smaller and lighter C4 ?

15 mpg though still doesn't make it worth it, unless you can get it for a killer price, though the diesels go for mad mileage most of the time.

George Dalton

If you can get 31mpg out of a CRV you could probably get 60mpg out of a 1.6HDI C4.

Again I understand the point you are making, but people don't think about it in a logical way. They would rather spend extra money on the purchase price to get a car that will be "cheap to run" They don't seem to factor in the purchase price and even repair bills into their thinking at all.

bren11

Deleted User wrote: »

Get your oil analysed before you throw money away.
.

Sorry OP for going off topic, but M lad, are there companys / labs that will analyse oil samples here. Do you take sample through dipstick tube? Will they determine the upper contaminant levels. I have used this service in industry where an oil change could cost up to €700.

bren11

bren11 wrote: »

Sorry OP for going off topic, but M lad, are there companys / labs that will analyse oil samples here. Do you take sample through dipstick tube? Will they determine the upper contaminant levels. I have used this service in industry where an oil change could cost up to €700.

You can drain the oil as normal and send a sample to a lab, I don't know where you can send it here but on U.S forum for Audi's I remember a whole thread on the oil changing at 5-7 k miles and they got the oils tested and found absolutely no need to change the oil before the manufacturer recommendations using their spec for oil.

Now most if not all the Audi maybe even all of VAG cars and god knows how many others have oil sensors that monitor the oil quality along with how many times you open/close the bonnet etc.

In fact some oils were tested way above the recommended oil change intervals only to find them still in good condition. But I wouldn't risk it myself well beyond the recommended change limits But I certainly wouldn't waste my money change it after 5-7 k miles, unless it's only doing school/shop runs every day. Then I'd replace it once a year.

George Dalton

George Dalton wrote: »

If you can get 31mpg out of a CRV you could probably get 60mpg out of a 1.6HDI C4.

Again I understand the point you are making, but people don't think about it in a logical way. They would rather spend extra money on the purchase price to get a car that will be "cheap to run" They don't seem to factor in the purchase price and even repair bills into their thinking at all.

Yep, 31 mpg, not too bad. It's a 2000 and 5 speed box. Sadly not a vtec.

I'd like a C4 1.6 petrol now for a while to see what I can get. Anyone like to give me a loan ?

godtabh

I've a 2011 C4 1.6 hDI. Great car. Only issue was a failed air condition pump. Replaced under warranty.

Retened a 2010 1.6 hDI. Another great car

Go for the vtr+

Bpmull

I get between 51-55 mpg out of my focus 1.6 tdci. And that's very mixed driving 30 percent motorway 30 percent town short drives 40 percent national main roads. My uncle has a c4 1.6hdi and he constantly gets 55-60 mpg out of his with similar driving to me but slightly less town driving. You would want to be doing alot of short trips to get less than 50 mpg. As for petrols I don't know anyone getting 45mpg out of petrol car of similar size to a c4.

I'd be slow to buy anything with the 1.6HDi in it tbh, grand yokes but the turbo goes on so so so many of them even ones that are looked after.

ba_barabus

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd be slow to buy anything with the 1.6HDi in it tbh, grand yokes but the turbo goes on so so so many of them even ones that are looked after.

I'd have to agree. I'm not going to say I wouldn't buy one but I'd go into it with my eyes open.

Lots of the components give problems. Some are trouble free while others are wrecks.

Having said that my biggest reason for not liking the C4 is the lack of a foot rest for the driver. Such a small feature which I couldn't live without.

MuppetCheck

I'd be slow to go for anything French. I'm driving an 11 reg 3008 (very similar under the skin) at the moment, I really thought the electrics would have been sorted by now but the dash warnings are a joke and intermittently I lose 4th gear (it's the semi auto crapbox). It goes well for a 1.6 in manual mode though, is smooth and quiet but the gearbox ruins the economy. I'm struggling to get 40mpg out of it.

I know there are good ones but make sure the electrics work. There's more bings and bongs going on as you drive along and it's driving me slowly insane.

Row

The same engines are used by ford (focus/2010+Mondeo)...Volvo s40's/s60's
..mazda 3's etc...peugeot 207,307,407 etc.

The only reason why the turbos fail on the dv6 engine is down to oil starvation due to..
1)poor service history.
2)extended service intervals.
3)incorrect oil been used.

Peugeot/Citroen have changed the service intervals on these engines from 20k kms back down to 15k kms.
I have seen these engines get up to 200k mls without any major problems.
They are a refined engine and need to be looked after.

I Have a 407 1.6 hdi with 122k mls on its orginal turbo and had (sold now) a
C4 1.6 hdi (90bhp) with 132k mls on its original turbo...so it does pay to keep them serviced..;)

Row

Row wrote: »

They are a refined engine and need to be looked after.

Refined apart from the rattle and vibration !

Row

Row wrote: »

...............

The only reason why the turbos fail on the dv6 engine is down to oil starvation due to..
1)poor service history.
2)extended service intervals.
3)incorrect oil been used.

Peugeot/Citroen have changed the service intervals on these engines from 20k kms back down to 15k kms..............

Dunno when they changed the interval but a relative experienced turbo failure on his main dealer serviced C5 repmobile lately.

He had no issue with the previous 1.6HDi C5 he had

Regardless of cause it's still true to say lots of them fail, not something the average motorist expects or wants on a car they've shelled out for.

From honest John, C4 model 2004-2011

What to Watch Out For
Owner/driver feedback welcome.

On 1.6HDI, the rubber diesel engine fuel return pipes can expand and pop off.

End of plastic dipstick of 1.6 HDI engine can break and drop into sump requiring removal of sump to retrieve it.

Flexible flywheel and clutch problems on 2006 1.6 HDIs, unresolved at end of 2006 due to shortage of parts. DMFs continuing to fail in 2009.

Watch out for rejected disaster zone C4s coming back onto the market. Be particularly careful at auction.

Wiper blades can come off leaving the rest of the assembly to scratch the screen. 2006 MT cars have modified wiper blades with clips to prevent this from happening. Plastic paint wears off the stereo buttons.

One reader's list of complaints: "Glove box door disintegrated; door mirrors are happy to adjust up/down, but not laterally, some rattling trim and rear view mirror regularly falls off support. Power steering components replaced after C4 started to ' skip ' around corners. Computer often forgets date/time and the screen matrix can ' bleed ', causing a blurred display."

Solution to glovebox problem and many more at Independent owners helpsite: c4owners.org

Another reader's problems: "Cruise control has come up Faulty (service) on the dash. Now the crusise has come up faulty again. I am having bag noises coming from the front wheels. Sounds like dry joints or something. There is also something loose in the boot lid. Maybe a screw or something worked loose. "

Yet another's problems: The paint came off the roof spoiler (common fault he was informed). Rear shock absorbers replaced (knocking). Water ingress in rear light & side repeater. Zone climate control blowing hot only drivers side.

Problem of diesels slipping into limp home mode put down to throttle butterflies sticking or their spindles wearing prematurely causing them to stick. The throttle position sensor identifies this and sends a message to the ECU to limit the engine to limp home mode.

Have been some total disaster zone cars. One reader's saga with an 05 Citroen C4 VTR+ Coupe (2 Ltr 138BHP) bought with 18,500 miles in February 2006 and at 35,500 miles in December 2007. (This car may have already been a 'lemon' rejected by the previous owner.)

"I'd like to point out that the car has never boken down on me. It's never left me stranded, but so many things have had to be replaced, its unbelievable.

01-03-2006 - Doors Rattling and CD Changer Skipping. This required a return visit to rectify

16-05-2006 - CD Changer again, Suspension Knock on pull away, Sucking Noise when opening throttle. No faults found, nothing rectified (XYD Airbag ECU recall carried out)

28-11-2006 - A/C Leaking into Footwell, AC Whining, Rear of car 'skipping' in corners, front suspension still knocking, exhaust knock on startup, clutch becomes stiff when used a lot (town traffic, traffic jams), Brake Judder, Rear Brakes make unusual noise when reversing. FIX: Blocked AC Drain cleared, Compressor drive pulley replaced, exhaust mount replaced, rear brake pads replaced (known issue). All other problems unrectified.

22-12-2006 - Clutch heavy and 'gritty ' feeling when in traffic, Brake Judder, dulled performance and Sulphur smell, coolant leak. FIX: Clutch replaced (warranty), Radiator replaced (warranty, leaking from seam), Cat replaced (warranty, broken up), Front Brake disks replaced (not covered by warrenty) also XYT Vehicle Immobiliser Recall carried out.

02-10-2007 - Front Suspension still knocking, Airbag warning light on, Heater broken, cruise control failure, boot seal worn and paintwork damage on one side, rear suspension groaning. FIX: Both front Ball Joints excessively worn, replaced. Airbag connection remade under drivers seat, Heater mixer flap motor/gears replaced (known issue technical bulletin C4 8NO8), entire steering wheel hub switch pack replaced (cruise control), boot seal replaced and tailgate position adjusted, Rear shocks replaced, both leaking.

Hidsons Rainham have been possibly the best dealership I've ever dealt with. Seemingly much more professional, they listened to what I had to say, always provided me with a free courtesy car (even on the last visit, when I was without my car for over 1 1/2 weeks, due to Citroen failing to implement a warehouse computer upgrade successfully. All work has been covered under warrenty (except front brakes, by this time the car had 27,000 miles on the clock).

So far this car has had over £3k worth of new parts, plus all the labour costs, the car only cost me £10,500. Unfortunately, however, the clutch is still no better and the airbag light still intermittently shown itself when the drivers seat is moved.

Out of curiosity, I have visited and joined several Citroen forums and on the whole, the C4 is considered a good, well built car. Mine is maybe an odd ball, its a fairly early model so this may explain many of my problems.

Also, an ongoing problem which Kevin (Service Manager at Rainham) has raised with Citroen is, after allowing the suspension to settle, when pulling away and turning the steering wheel (pulling out of a parking space etc) the suspension seems to groan and the steering feels heavy. The car feels like its 'skating' or sliding across the road surface. Once this has happened, its ok until the suspension settles again (which can be when parked or on a long motorway stretch, its a bit disconcerting when you get to the first corner off of the motorway cause you never know what its going to do)."

Clutch life of EGS can be as short as 24k miles. This should be a warranty issue as Citroen cannot claim driver abuse for failure of an automated clutch over which the driver has no control.

Brake discs wear quickly.

Rear wiring looms can corrode, costing £480 to replace. One of the first signs is failure of the reversing lights.

5-2-2012: More reports of turbo oil starvation on 1.6HDI DV6TED4 leading to expensive catastrophes at around 100,000 miles due to carbon build up in the oil feed to the bearing. The cure is not just a new turbo, but new oil pipe, pump, pick-up, etc., etc. Failure to replace these paerts will usually result in another failed turbo within 10,000 miles. There was a Ford TSB45/2008 about this. Newer engines (2008+) have modified parts. Apparently you can get a new turbo for £350 plus £120 for a "kit" of modified pipes/pick-up unions etc. from Transitpartsuk (International Parts Ltd) to fit next week. eBay supplier TransitpartsUK

30-4-2012: Hatchback lock wiring of coupes highly prone to become faulty. May be the loom between the body of the car and the hatch.

31-5-2012: Power steering and front coil spring failure reported on 18,500 mile 2008 C4.







Recalls
14-5-2012: Citroen Recalls Website. Register to receive recall/TSB information direct from Citroen.

25-4-05: recall Picasso, C4 and C5 built 1-7-04 to 10-10-05 because diesel fuel return pipe may leak. Unspecified date: recall to make sure rear brake pipes. July 2006 check air bag computer.

7-01-2008 R/2007/191 potential loss of abs and esp functions VF7######74102211 to VF7######74553249 build 02/06/2005to 26/09/2006; VF7######74100223VF7######74461623 build 25/05/2004 to 04/04/2006; VF7######74313674 to VF7######74552935 build 07/04/2006 to 26/09/2006

05-02-2008 R/2008/017 CITROENC4 & C5 possibility of reduced braking performance VF7******74299142 to

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

From honest John..............

Prius speel is probably as long.

JohnBoy26

Row wrote: »

The same engines are used by ford (focus/2010+Mondeo)...Volvo s40's/s60's
..mazda 3's etc...peugeot 207,307,407 etc.

The only reason why the turbos fail on the dv6 engine is down to oil starvation due to..
1)poor service history.
2)extended service intervals.
3)incorrect oil been used.

Peugeot/Citroen have changed the service intervals on these engines from 20k kms back down to 15k kms.
I have seen these engines get up to 200k mls without any major problems.
They are a refined engine and need to be looked after.

I Have a 407 1.6 hdi with 122k mls on its orginal turbo and had (sold now) a
C4 1.6 hdi (90bhp) with 132k mls on its original turbo...so it does pay to keep them serviced..;)

It could also be due to the fact that they have a flaw in where they turn the engine oil to sludge. Tbh even correctly maintained ones give the same trouble so IMO it's more down to a sh*te design rather than lack of maintenance.

JohnBoy26

Bpmull wrote: »

I get between 51-55 mpg out of my focus 1.6 tdci. And that's very mixed driving 30 percent motorway 30 percent town short drives 40 percent national main roads. My uncle has a c4 1.6hdi and he constantly gets 55-60 mpg out of his with similar driving to me but slightly less town driving. You would want to be doing alot of short trips to get less than 50 mpg. As for petrols I don't know anyone getting 45mpg out of petrol car of similar size to a c4.

Might not exactly be as big as a C4 but a mate of mine had a 1.5 Civic a few years back and he was getting 45mpg out of it.

ba_barabus

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Might not exactly be as big as a C4 but a mate of mine had a 1.5 Civic a few years back and he was getting 45mpg out of it.

I used to get that regularly put of my mk1 Avensis 1.6 back in the day.

Best ever was 47.8mpg when cash was really tight

Row

Deleted User wrote: »

Refined apart from the rattle and vibration !

Rattles usually come for the heat shield around the dpf/cat and/or on wear the rubber housing/seats that the air filter housing sits on...;)

Vibration not common unless engine mounts have gone weak but they don't normally cause problems...

Row

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It could also be due to the fact that they have a flaw in where they turn the engine oil to sludge. Tbh even correctly maintained ones give the same trouble so IMO it's more down to a sh*te design rather than lack of maintenance.

Imho... older diesels were bulletproof but with engine manufactures been pushed to the limit with low emissions...high preformance..fuel economy etc,engine oil plays a huge part in maintaining the longevity of all vital engine components.

Tis not so long ago when the oil and filter was renewed every 3k mls on
all diesels....when you think about it oil is only good for so long so imho extended service intervals is not good longterm...:rolleyes:

Most car owners spend around €50-100 per week on fuel and then complain about the price of fully syn oil @€;50/€60 per 5 litres every 6 months...:rolleyes:

@JohnBoy26...Tbh I have seen quite a few 03-04 toyota corollas 1.4 petrols with engine failure due to oil turning to sludge due to poor serving and a few (new at the time) 2010 toyota corollas 1.4 d4d buring oil to beat the band....

OP....I'm only going by my own experience tbh if the dv6 engine is well serviced every 9k mls or less and fully syn (low ash for cars fitted with dpf's) oil is used then i can't see a problem with these engines.

Row

Row wrote: »

Rattles usually come for the heat shield around the dpf/cat and/or on wear the rubber housing/seats that the air filter housing sits on...;)

Vibration not common unless engine mounts have gone weak but they don't normally cause problems...

Na it's just the nature of diesel, noisy and they cause vibration through the car.

Row

Row wrote: »

Imho... older diesels were bulletproof but with engine manufactures been pushed to the limit with low emissions...high preformance..fuel economy etc,engine oil plays a huge part in maintaining the longevity of all vital engine components.

Tis not so long ago when the oil and filter was renewed every 3k mls on
all diesels....when you think about it oil is only good for so long so imho extended service intervals is not good longterm...:rolleyes:

Most car owners spend around €50-100 per week on fuel and then complain about the price of fully syn oil @€;50/€60 per 5 litres every 6 months...:rolleyes:

@JohnBoy26...Tbh I have seen quite a few 03-04 toyota corollas 1.4 petrols with engine failure due to oil turning to sludge due to poor serving and a few (new at the time) 2010 toyota corollas 1.4 d4d buring oil to beat the band....

OP....I'm only going by my own experience tbh if the dv6 engine is well serviced every 9k mls or less and fully syn (low ash for cars fitted with dpf's) oil is used then i can't see a problem with these engines.

Again, if using the oil recommended by the manuafacturers and changed at the correct intervals there shouldn't be a problem with long life plans.

As I said,my old A4 was on the long life plan for all of its 200,000 miles and was still going when I sold it.

Modern oils are designed to last, unlike the oils of many years ago.

I even had my doubts in the beginning until I read the Audi forums, they got the oils tested and found they were good to well beyond the car told them to change it.

I can't see it being different for any other car, but if you want to throw your money away that's up to you.

Row

Deleted User wrote: »

Na it's just the nature of diesel, noisy and they cause vibration through the car.

Reminds me of the Tdi engines...:)

Don't get me wrong the tdi engines have been well proven and stood the tests of time and mileage but refinement have not been there strong point.

All the newer vw diesel engines have gone down the common rail route so time well tell how reliable they will be in the future.

As for throwing away money on reduced service intervals i think its money well spent..:cool:

Going back to the Op's original question i'd say go for the C4 as you get good value for money..economy..plenty of extras and once well serviced..reliability...:)

shamwari

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no scientific evidence that replacing your oil is any good for your car after such low mileage and ends up costing you more.

My old B6 A4 used the long life oil every 15k -20 K miles and the engine was still good after 200,000 miles.

granted for very low mileage school/shop run cars it may be better but not for a car that's getting proper use.

Get your oil analysed before you throw money away.

If you use the correct spec oil for your car you should not need to change the oil much earlier.

With respect, how can you tell me that replacing my oil ahead of schedule is going to cost me more, and then tell me to get my oil analysed before I throw away my money? Getting my oil analysed would, in all probability, cost me more than an oil change ever will. There is an abundance of well documented evidence that regular servicing does not harm, and especially so where the DV6 engines are concerned. I'm changing the oil around 2500 miles ahead of schedule. That's not gonna break the bank ! In the long run, it will probably save me money by helping to avoid expensive bills and make the car easier to sell as each purchase of oil and filter is from Ford, and I keep all of the receipts as proof of servicing.

Deleted User wrote: »

Refined apart from the rattle and vibration !

Again, ours has a fair bit of mileage and its not a rattler. The guy next door has an old Passat which sounds very agricultural in comparison, but itself is still a very good motor.

Deleted User wrote: »

From honest John, C4 model 2004-2011

Listen, if you read everything Honest John has to say about cars, you'd never drive again from sheer paranoia and we'd still be relying on the pony an trap!

Row wrote: »

The same engines are used by ford (focus/2010+Mondeo)...Volvo s40's/s60's
..mazda 3's etc...peugeot 207,307,407 etc.

The only reason why the turbos fail on the dv6 engine is down to oil starvation due to..
1)poor service history.
2)extended service intervals.
3)incorrect oil been used.

My sentiments exactly. However....

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

It could also be due to the fact that they have a flaw in where they turn the engine oil to sludge. Tbh even correctly maintained ones give the same trouble so IMO it's more down to a sh*te design rather than lack of maintenance.

Agree, poor servicing exposes the marginal side of these engines. I remember discussing here a while back what I consider to be their weaknesses and many are already covered here in this thread.

In addition to the "advanced schedule" servicing I do, I also replaced the feed hose to the turbo at around 80K, and its banjo bolt which contains a microfilter. It is clogging of these which is I am told (from Ford) are contributing to turbo failure. Poor or improper servicing is the biggie though. Anyway, after replacing the feeds, I sliced open the old hose and there was no evidence of clogging. You could say I wasted €70 and two hours of my time doing this, but again, it was cheap for the peace of mind in knowing that my engine isn't insidiously silting up inside, waiting to take the turbo out.

Finally, I have a copy of the months Car Mechanics magazine to hand and there's an article therein where a Mazda 3 with a DV6 had it's turbo replaced because of owner neglect and missed services. I'll see if I can post it later, but the photo of that car's oil filter needs to be seen to be believed.

shamwari

As per earlier, a photo is attached of a rather sludgy oil filter from a DV6 engine :eek:

shamwari

shamwari wrote: »

As per earlier, a photo is attached of a rather sludgy oil filter from a DV6 engine :eek:

LOL never seen anything like that, that's pure neglect for ye!

shamwari

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL never seen anything like that, that's pure neglect for ye!

I know. And all for the want of an oil change!

shamwari

I'll be doing an oil change on our DV6 later this week. I'll post a pic of the filter that comes out to compare it with above.

@ROW, I understand that the engine was heavily reworked from late '10 on. It's now an 8V, modified internally and shortened service interval. Word from UK is that it is far better the previously. Performance is very slightly, down but reliability seems quite good. Emissions and fuel consumption are better and I believe it doesn't need an Eolys top-up

It gets better: apparently a 1.5TDCi is in the wings with several power outputs. It will replace both existing 1.4 and 1.6 TDCi lumps and will see service in all Fords bar the Ka. More anon

demanufactured

C4 is a great car, Have had mine since April 09..its a 2005 1.4 petrol...has never missed a beat.
Very comfortable on long journeys...will be holding onto it for a few years yet.

Row

shamwari wrote: »

@ROW, I understand that the engine was heavily reworked from late '10 on. It's now an 8V, modified internally and shortened service interval. Word from UK is that it is far better the previously. Performance is very slightly, down but reliability seems quite good. Emissions and fuel consumption are better and I believe it doesn't need an Eolys top-up

It gets better: apparently a 1.5TDCi is in the wings with several power outputs. It will replace both existing 1.4 and 1.6 TDCi lumps and will see service in all Fords bar the Ka. More anon

Yes shamwari the newer dv6 engine is an 8 valve unit and is now called the Dv6C some info here..
http://www.peugeot-citroen-moteurs.fr/cache/docs_public/6666cd76f96956469e7be39d750cc7d9/6_fr-fr_fiche_publique.pdf
and
http://peugeotcom.peugeot01.web.vm.4ddigital.co.uk/media/884279/communiqu%C3%A9%20presse%20euro%205-en.pdf

They seem to be improved on compared to the older units but i suppose time will tell how better they are....:)

Interesting one about the 1.5TDCi unit....is this been developed by ford/psa..?

shamwari

Row wrote: »

Yes shamwari the newer dv6 engine is an 8 valve unit and is now called the Dv6C some info here..
http://www.peugeot-citroen-moteurs.fr/cache/docs_public/6666cd76f96956469e7be39d750cc7d9/6_fr-fr_fiche_publique.pdf
and
http://peugeotcom.peugeot01.web.vm.4ddigital.co.uk/media/884279/communiqu%C3%A9%20presse%20euro%205-en.pdf

They seem to be improved on compared to the older units but i suppose time will tell how better they are....:)

Interesting one about the 1.5TDCi unit....is this been developed by ford/psa..?

Thanks for the info Row. My contact in Ford UK filled me in on the 1.5 motor; he made no mention of PSA involvement but I think it's highly likely they are. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out. Perhaps its the start of the Euro VI offerings..:)

Al Capwned

Sorry for bumping an old(ish) thread, but i'd be interested in finding out if the OP got the car after and what their impressions of it are...

My auld fella upgraded his '12 C3 to a 131-reg C4 ex-demo yesterday. It has all the gadgets and doofers, cruise control, aircon, parking sensors etc etc... It's the 1.6 HDi 90bhp.

Just looking for anything the OP has to say about them. Thanks.