advice on car service please

JohnNightmare

hi, just would like too know is the likes of fast fit, advanced pit shop and auto fast ( auto fast is in the pavillion shopping center in Swords ) would you trust them on a full car service? just to compare 2 figures, i got a quote in advanced pit shop for €225 for a full service incl change of all filters and oils/fluids, spark plugs and a engine diagnostics check as well as the usual visual checks of brakes tyres wipers etc.. and the same in nissan garrage airside was 335 if nothing else is faulty.

its a 03 nissan almera if thats helps. on a 2nd note, 3 days ago my car wouldent start after i tried about 6 times the engine sounded v low as it was ticking over and trying to start. so i left it for a few mins and went to start again than after another 3 starts i reved it up a god bit and aload of white/ light gray smoke came out of the exhaust and it started. since than it has been grand and that was my only time i had a problem with the car ( i have it 3 years now) im hoping it was just a blockage and it cleared but either way would the diagnostics check pic that up or should i mention it when im getting it serviced?
thank you for the replies in advance.

KwackerJack

White smoke could be a head gasket issue (maybe) is there a smell off the white smoke??

Is it burning oil?

Grey smoke usually is just extra fuel being burned up, as you tried to start it the fuel would build up the burn away.

ever tried doing your service DIY....A haynes manual can teach you a god bit and save you a fortune

Curran

JohnNightmare wrote: »

auto fast ( auto fast is in the pavillion shopping center in Swords )

Heard of a lad, who owns a performance car, who went here for a service. It was a set price service, think it cost something like 89 euro. The cheapest you'd find the correct oil for this car would be approx 70 euro. Probably grand for a run of the mill car, but I wouldnt trust any outfit like it. Yes, the lad should have had more sense.

Try McGraine's on the Forest Road, approx 3 mins from the Pavillions!

JohnNightmare

thanks for the reply KwackerJack , yes the head gasket had crossed my mind as my first car ( fiat punto ) blew its gasket and there was alot of white smoke yes but the heater only blew out cold air not warm and that was the other tell tail sign of the gasket, but never the less yes it could be a warning about my head gasket,

was there a smell?....yes but it just smelt like normal fumes from the exhaust. and there as been no extensive smoke since.

is it burning oil.. i changed the oil about 11 months ago and i had to top it up today as chance would have have it, but not by much mind you as the oil i had left over from when i changed the oil did the job with some oil still left.

i have thaught of doing it my self as i have changed the oil and oil and air filter but as far as spark plugs n coolent etc im not really confident.

JohnNightmare

Curran wrote: »

Heard of a lad, who owns a performance car, who went here for a service. It was a set price service, think it cost something like 89 euro. The cheapest you'd find the correct oil for this car would be approx 70 euro. Probably grand for a run of the mill car, but I wouldnt trust any outfit like it. Yes, the lad should have had more sense.

Try McGraine's on the Forest Road, approx 3 mins from the Pavillions!

thats charlie mcGraine isent it, yep i could get a price off them too, cheers

Curran

By any chance did you let the petrol get very low in the tank recently?
Or, when it was struggling to start, were you giving it a good bit of throttle?

Wife used to have an Almera and once when it got very low, I mean, practically fumes, it struggled to start...had a mechanic look at it and he reckoned there was no problem, but it could have been dirty petrol. And then she might have flooded the engine a bit trying to get it to turn over! When he did eventually get it to turn over, she said there was a lot of smoke...ran fine afterwards!

JohnNightmare

Curran wrote: »

By any chance did you let the petrol get very low in the tank recently?
Or, when it was struggling to start, were you giving it a good bit of throttle?

Wife used to have an Almera and once when it got very low, I mean, practically fumes, it struggled to start...had a mechanic look at it and he reckoned there was no problem, but it could have been dirty petrol. And then she might have flooded the engine a bit trying to get it to turn over! When he did eventually get it to turn over, she said there was a lot of smoke...ran fine afterwards!

i rarely let it go to the yellow/orange warning light and 3 days ago when it happend the fuel was 1/4 full down from a full tank.

when it struggled at start as in when i first tryed to start it i dident rev it up at all. but after i left it for a few mins and tryed to start it again yes i gave it a good bit of throttle and thats when a bust of smoke flew out and the car started.

KwackerJack

JohnNightmare wrote: »

thanks for the reply KwackerJack , yes the head gasket had crossed my mind as my first car ( fiat punto ) blew its gasket and there was alot of white smoke yes but the heater only blew out cold air not warm and that was the other tell tail sign of the gasket, but never the less yes it could be a warning about my head gasket,

was there a smell?....yes but it just smelt like normal fumes from the exhaust. and there as been no extensive smoke since.

is it burning oil.. i changed the oil about 11 months ago and i had to top it up today as chance would have have it, but not by much mind you as the oil i had left over from when i changed the oil did the job with some oil still left.

i have thaught of doing it my self as i have changed the oil and oil and air filter but as far as spark plugs n coolent etc im not really confident.

Just keep a close eye on the water and oil

Condensation in the fuel system may have caused the hard start and the then the smoke from excess fuel.

Plugs are easy enough. Some are easy to get to and some require you move a few bits out of the way. Just remember to mark each plug lead so you don't get mixed up.

Check the owners manual or online for the right plug as sometimes that wrong plug will cause the engine to run a bit rough.

Most if not all plugs have a copper washer, this compresses as the plug is tightened. You can actually feel the washer being compressed, so as this happens just apply a small bit more pressure to ensure a tight fit it may be a 1/2 2/3 turn depending on the thread type

Remember not to go to tight past the washer being compressed or you will snap the plug and that's gonna cost.

Curran

Thats where the smoke may have come from...a bit of flooding!

We had another time where the car was running a bit rough on a few drives and then wouldnt turn over, and it turn out to be a cam shaft sensor - 60 quid sort that. Might be worth getting the error codes checked on it!

JohnNightmare

KwackerJack wrote: »

Just keep a close eye on the water and oil

Condensation in the fuel system may have caused the hard start and the then the smoke from excess fuel.

Plugs are easy enough. Some are easy to get to and some require you move a few bits out of the way. Just remember to mark each plug lead so you don't get mixed up.

Check the owners manual or online for the right plug as sometimes that wrong plug will cause the engine to run a bit rough.

Most if not all plugs have a copper washer, this compresses as the plug is tightened. You can actually feel the washer being compressed, so as this happens just apply a small bit more pressure to ensure a tight fit it may be a 1/2 2/3 turn depending on the thread type

Remember not to go to tight past the washer being compressed or you will snap the plug and that's gonna cost.

yep i will do
you sound like u know what ur on about regard the plugs, id probably ruin afew plugs before i get it right lol granted they are cheap enough. as you would probably agree oil change and fillters are mickey mouse work ( the oil filter is tricky to get at mind you) i mite give the plugs a shot

do u need a diagnostics check though do you reckon?
can u go to a garage and just ask for an diagnostic check?

JohnNightmare

Curran wrote: »

Thats where the smoke may have come from...a bit of flooding!

We had another time where the car was running a bit rough on a few drives and then wouldnt turn over, and it turn out to be a cam shaft sensor - 60 quid sort that. Might be worth getting the error codes checked on it!

can u go to a garage and just ask for a diagnostic ckeck / error codes ckecked yes?

Curran

You'll probably find someone on here willing to lend a hand, that has a diagnostic tool!
I've a mate to do it for me!

JoseJones

If the engine check light isn't on there won't be any fault codes to read. Is that literally all a diagnostic check is? I have a bluetooth diagnostic tool that was about €15 on ebay and an app for my phone that connects to it. I can read and clear error codes and log all sorts of info with it, pretty handy.

JohnNightmare

JoseJones wrote: »

If the engine check light isn't on there won't be any fault codes to read. Is that literally all a diagnostic check is? I have a bluetooth diagnostic tool that was about €15 on ebay and an app for my phone that connects to it. I can read and clear error codes and log all sorts of info with it, pretty handy.

in theory when its hooked up to the system any faults its suposed to pick up straight away and if there is any tuneing to be done it can be done through the system eg the engine sound and the speed of it ticking over when the engine is on etc . u can buy small hand held ones in argos but they only tell u the problems it finds they dont fix them.
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7402759.htm
dont know of id 100% trust them but better than nothing i supose.

as far as the phone app i wouldent trust it one bit.

cletus

JohnNightmare wrote: »

in theory when its hooked up to the system any faults its suposed to pick up straight away and if there is any tuneing to be done it can be done through the system eg the engine sound and the speed of it ticking over when the engine is on etc . u can buy small hand held ones in argos but they only tell u the problems it finds they dont fix them.
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7402759.htm
dont know of id 100% trust them but better than nothing i supose.

as far as the phone app i wouldent trust it one bit.

Torque (the phone app) along with an elm327 bluetooth dongle works just fine. I have used it to identify codes and clear them, no issues

As far as I know, no eobd sytem will fix the faults it finds.

JohnNightmare

cletus wrote: »

Torque (the phone app) along with an elm327 bluetooth dongle works just fine. I have used it to identify codes and clear them, no issues

As far as I know, no eobd sytem will fix the faults it finds.

thats my point, you said 1st it finds them and then clears them? than you said no eobd system will fix the faults it finds, so whats the phone app doing with the elm327 bluetooth that cost €15? doesent make any sense to me
i.e it finds them on the screen then clears them on the screen, doesent do anything to the car. or am i reading you wrong?

JoseJones

Correct, it picks up the fault codes and tells you what they are, you can clear them if you like but you're not addressing the underlying problem. Not even the €215 argos one nor a much more expensive unit that a dealer will have will do that. They all read the fault codes, tell you what they are and allow you to clear them. None of them will fix a fault.

For example, my car throws up a "vehicle speed sensor fault" intermittently. I can clear it using a diagnostic tool (phone app, fancy dealer unit, or your argos unit) but clearing the fault doesn't fix the problem. It narrows it down in that I know there is a problem with the VSS circuit but it's impossible for any piece of kit to just fix it when it could be a wire shorting to earth somewhere or something like that.

cletus

What Josejones said

Nissan doctor

€225 is mad money for a standard service/inspection on a micra.

A full engine service, vehicle inspection and diagnostic scan should cost no more then €120-€140 for a standard Micra 1.0-1.4L.

For the starting problem, had you started the engine for a few seconds to move the car or anything the time before it wouldn't start? The japanese cars are prone to flooding if you run the engine for a few seconds then turn it off.

JohnNightmare

Nissan doctor wrote: »

€225 is mad money for a standard service/inspection on a micra.

A full engine service, vehicle inspection and diagnostic scan should cost no more then €120-€140 for a standard Micra 1.0-1.4L.

For the starting problem, had you started the engine for a few seconds to move the car or anything the time before it wouldn't start? The japanese cars are prone to flooding if you run the engine for a few seconds then turn it off.

cheers for the reply,

its an almera 1.5l

no it was parked outside my house and i was going somewhere and as soon as put the key in ant turned it thats what happened.

should i bring it to a garage for the diagnostics check or just leave as a once off type of thing and just go ahead with the service?
i mean if it was a once off thing ( hasent happened before or since granted its only been 4 days but i have been useing the car) and if i told the garage about it the chances are they would make a big song and dance about it to try get more money out of me.

happened to me with my punto afew years ago i brought it to a fiat garage for its service and i got a phone call back with a list of problems that in total cost nearly 1000 to fix needless to say i told them do nothing else with it just a service and thats it, that car went to cork a week later and than twice a week for ten weeks from dublin as a part of my apprenticeship was down there and not a bother with it a year later i sold it.
i know that was fiat and this is nissan.

as i said advance pit shop was 225 for a full service nissan was 335 would you trust advanced pit stop, although i noticed ur name is nissan doctor

Nissan doctor

JohnNightmare wrote: »

cheers for the reply,

its an almera 1.5l

no it was parked outside my house and i was going somewhere and as soon as put the key in ant turned it thats what happened.

should i bring it to a garage for the diagnostics check or just leave as a once off type of thing and just go ahead with the service?
i mean if it was a once off thing ( hasent happened before or since granted its only been 4 days but i have been useing the car) and if i told the garage about it the chances are they would make a big song and dance about it to try get more money out of me.

happened to me with my punto afew years ago i brought it to a fiat garage for its service and i got a phone call back with a list of problems that in total cost nearly 1000 to fix needless to say i told them do nothing else with it just a service and thats it, that car went to cork a week later and than twice a week for ten weeks from dublin as a part of my apprenticeship was down there and not a bother with it a year later i sold it.
i know that was fiat and this is nissan.

as i said advance pit shop was 225 for a full service nissan was 335 would you trust advanced pit stop, although i noticed ur name is nissan doctor

Sorry I thought I read Micra, The Almera would be the same price anyway as its basically the same engine.

I wouldn't be worried about head gasket issues unless its been regularly overheating as HG issues with those engines are rare enough. Something like a malfunctioning Temperature sensor can cause starting issues like that too.

Is the car due a service? If so then I'd get one done but if its not due yet then don't get one just because of a starting issue. You should be able to go to any decent garage and describe the problem you had and have it diagnosed/checked for any issues.

KwackerJack

JohnNightmare wrote: »

yep i will do
you sound like u know what ur on about regard the plugs, id probably ruin afew plugs before i get it right lol granted they are cheap enough. as you would probably agree oil change and fillters are mickey mouse work ( the oil filter is tricky to get at mind you) i mite give the plugs a shot

do u need a diagnostics check though do you reckon?
can u go to a garage and just ask for an diagnostic check?

My father's in the trade so I learned of him...mid you he still let me make mistakes so I would learn not to do it again

Some oil filters are standard metal filters or some are paper filters..... they roughly do they same job but usually paper filters are easier to remove (sometimes)

Metal filters can crack if there stuck fast and usually buried in the weirdest of places

As I said make sure you use the right plugs, My S80 ran crap and when I changed the plugs for the right ones ( Platinum at €12 each) with 5 cylinders thats a nice €60 but the car did run 100 times better.

As JoseJones said you can buy cheap diagnostics equipment online to tell you what faults are there.

If you can read your MAF that can tell you if its going as this will make the car run crap due to wrong mixtures.

Some units you can read the injector system, test fuel pumps etc but there more expensive.

But as said if it is a fault the lights will only remain off when the computer knows that the problem is fixed or a part replaced.

My old BMW said it's left rear speed sensor was not working, turns out it was the front left So you see good auld hands on work is always needed to

JohnNightmare

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Sorry I thought I read Micra, The Almera would be the same price anyway as its basically the same engine.

I wouldn't be worried about head gasket issues unless its been regularly overheating as HG issues with those engines are rare enough. Something like a malfunctioning Temperature sensor can cause starting issues like that too.

Is the car due a service? If so then I'd get one done but if its not due yet then don't get one just because of a starting issue. You should be able to go to any decent garage and describe the problem you had and have it diagnosed/checked for any issues.

i changed the oil and oil filter and air filter a bit less than a year ago but it hasent had a full service in a garage in nearly 2 years.

JohnNightmare

KwackerJack wrote: »

My father's in the trade so I learned of him...mid you he still let me make mistakes so I would learn not to do it again

Some oil filters are standard metal filters or some are paper filters..... they roughly do they same job but usually paper filters are easier to remove (sometimes)

Metal filters can crack if there stuck fast and usually buried in the weirdest of places

As I said make sure you use the right plugs, My S80 ran crap and when I changed the plugs for the right ones ( Platinum at €12 each) with 5 cylinders thats a nice €60 but the car did run 100 times better.

As JoseJones said you can buy cheap diagnostics equipment online to tell you what faults are there.

If you can read your MAF that can tell you if its going as this will make the car run crap due to wrong mixtures.

Some units you can read the injector system, test fuel pumps etc but there more expensive.

But as said if it is a fault the lights will only remain off when the computer knows that the problem is fixed or a part replaced.

My old BMW said it's left rear speed sensor was not working, turns out it was the front left So you see good auld hands on work is always needed to

i wouldent have a clue about codes or the like :P would it be a case of eg if i was to get my hands and a cheap one and a few codes/faults came up i could just google search the code for nissan almera or any other car if i used it ? in honesty "cletus" and "JoseJones" are tempting me to get one they would be helpfull at least id have a bit of an idea of what sensor is gone or fault or watever before i went to a garage. u cant do damage with one can u ie if there was a warning light in my car ( there isent but if there was) and the fault came up on the reader could i reset the light through the reader ie now the warning light in the car is gone off but the problem is is still there. i turned the fire alarm off but the fire is still blazing type of thing....

Nissan doctor

JohnNightmare wrote: »

i wouldent have a clue about codes or the like :P would it be a case of eg if i was to get my hands and a cheap one and a few codes/faults came up i could just google search the code for nissan almera or any other car if i used it ? in honesty "cletus" and "JoseJones" are tempting me to get one they would be helpfull at least id have a bit of an idea of what sensor is gone or fault or watever before i went to a garage. u cant do damage with one can u ie if there was a warning light in my car ( there isent but if there was) and the fault came up on the reader could i reset the light through the reader ie now the warning light in the car is gone off but the problem is is still there. i turned the fire alarm off but the fire is still blazing type of thing....

How many miles have you done since the last full service? the likes of plugs are likely well due.

With regards to code readers, they are really only of any use if you know what you are looking for. The code reader gives just that, a code, it doesn't tell you whats wrong with the car. You need to understand how every system effects every other system to make any use of it.
i.e,a couple of common ones, a fault like a 'camshaft sensor - range/performance' , a common one on your car, doesn't mean that the camshaft sensor is faulty or an 'EGR - insufficient flow' fault doesn't mean that the EGR valve is faulty.

KwackerJack

JohnNightmare wrote: »

i wouldent have a clue about codes or the like :P would it be a case of eg if i was to get my hands and a cheap one and a few codes/faults came up i could just google search the code for nissan almera or any other car if i used it ? in honesty "cletus" and "JoseJones" are tempting me to get one they would be helpfull at least id have a bit of an idea of what sensor is gone or fault or watever before i went to a garage. u cant do damage with one can u ie if there was a warning light in my car ( there isent but if there was) and the fault came up on the reader could i reset the light through the reader ie now the warning light in the car is gone off but the problem is is still there. i turned the fire alarm off but the fire is still blazing type of thing....

haha well usually if there is a fault the light will remain on or pop back on, Having one is no harm really.

As you said if you can see the fault before you go to a dealer or garage at least you can say well this is my problem. Instead of him telling you that you need a 1k worth of work done :eek:

My volvo constantly tells me my side lights are gone, there not but its that sensitive it can read the voltage and tell me if you is dimmer than the rest :rolleyes:

Computers are great but there a pain sometimes.

If you ever have a car with traction control and you get a warning light it could be something as simple as not enough tread on your tyres.

Again, so sensitive it can feel that the tyres are not getting the proper grip even thought it may feel perfect to you

JohnNightmare

Nissan doctor wrote: »

How many miles have you done since the last full service? the likes of plugs are likely well due.

With regards to code readers, they are really only of any use if you know what you are looking for. The code reader gives just that, a code, it doesn't tell you whats wrong with the car. You need to understand how every system effects every other system to make any use of it.
i.e,a couple of common ones, a fault like a 'camshaft sensor - range/performance' , a common one on your car, doesn't mean that the camshaft sensor is faulty or an 'EGR - insufficient flow' fault doesn't mean that the EGR valve is faulty.

full serviced at 68,000 miles i remember that and its now coming onto 79,000.

yeah thats stuff there now is way over my head i dont know the basics there that you have out lined, i know now the EGR valve vital to your car's emission controls through google reserch :P so in your opinion would it be useless to me or could i google search the codes. faults?

Nissan doctor

JohnNightmare wrote: »

full serviced at 68,000 miles i remember that and its now coming onto 79,000.

yeah thats stuff there now is way over my head i dont know the basics there that you have out lined, i know now the EGR valve vital to your car's emission controls through google reserch :P so in your opinion would it be useless to me or could i google search the codes. faults?

You could google your fault and you may get some possible causes, but unless you know how to check the systems that can cause the fault then its still useless and still not going to save you anything when you go to a garage as the garage are still going to have to read the code and then diagnose the fault.

The cheap code readers will also only read standard EOBD/OBDII codes, which are a generic range of codes for basic systems on all cars. Most modern cars, however, have dozens and even hundreds of manufacturer specific fault codes which basic readers can't read so you'll be none the wiser.

JohnNightmare

KwackerJack wrote: »

haha well usually if there is a fault the light will remain on or pop back on, Having one is no harm really.

As you said if you can see the fault before you go to a dealer or garage at least you can say well this is my problem. Instead of him telling you that you need a 1k worth of work done :eek:

My volvo constantly tells me my side lights are gone, there not but its that sensitive it can read the voltage and tell me if you is dimmer than the rest :rolleyes:

Computers are great but there a pain sometimes.

If you ever have a car with traction control and you get a warning light it could be something as simple as not enough tread on your tyres.

Again, so sensitive it can feel that the tyres are not getting the proper grip even thought it may feel perfect to you

yeah thats fairly sensitive alright :P

i found these i mite consider buying, handy to have there only engine faults though as far as i can see, the problem i had the other day if it is an underlining problem and that was just a warning would that fall under a engine problem?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Autel-MS509-Diagnostic-OBD2-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-/220761792594?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item33666da052

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/U480-Universal-OBD2-CAN-BUS-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-diagnostic-scan-tool-UK-/221039216694?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3376f6c836

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/VAG-Scanner-Engine-Airbag-ABS-Diagnostic-Scan-Tool-VW-Seat-Skoda-Audi-COM-Reset-/221117612438?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item337ba30196

than again after what nissan doctor said there it might read alot of the fault for my 03 but if/when i get a new car and its a 06 of higher if im lucky or have the money than that reader wont know half the codes on the car.

Nissan doctor

JohnNightmare wrote: »

yeah thats fairly sensitive alright :P

i found these i mite consider buying, handy to have there only engine faults though as far as i can see, the problem i had the other day if it is an underlining problem and that was just a warning would that fall under a engine problem?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Autel-MS509-Diagnostic-OBD2-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-/220761792594?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item33666da052

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/U480-Universal-OBD2-CAN-BUS-Fault-Code-Reader-Scanner-diagnostic-scan-tool-UK-/221039216694?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3376f6c836

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/VAG-Scanner-Engine-Airbag-ABS-Diagnostic-Scan-Tool-VW-Seat-Skoda-Audi-COM-Reset-/221117612438?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item337ba30196

than again after what nissan doctor said there it might read alot of the fault for my 03 but if/when i get a new car and its a 06 of higher if im lucky or have the money than that reader wont know half the codes on the car.

Any EOBD/OBDII compliant reader will still read the same systems on an 03 as they will on an 06 or even a 131, but the only systems that are required to be standard across all makes, and therefore readable by generic code readers, are the basic emissions related systems like MAP/MAF, injectors, EGR, throttle control, lambda etc but more modern cars have much more complicated engine control systems which would require more then just reading the basic systems to diagnose.