Are we entering a new dark age of misgogyny and homophobia

Freiheit

Every day one reads more and more cases of Islam asserting it's sexist and deeply misogynistic as well as homophobic ideology. Women are being forcibly veiled and forcibly segregated even in Europe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/mar/10/ucl-debate-segregating-seating-gender Any questioning of this is deemed Islamophobic,which is seen as a bad thing,well why should it?

A global Map of the penal code for lgbtq people shows penalties at their strongest in Islamic nations and Africa. Pope Franics is homophobic and misogynystic but Christians are not stoning to death transgressors,that's about all that can be said for them.

Why is it that notion's of equality and decency of human values seem to be suspended where religion is concerned?. Why is misogyny and homophobic tolerated if motivation is religous?

Are we entering a new dark age of assertive Islam and Christianity? or will reason eventually prevail in this Information Age.?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/05/gaza-marathon-cancelled-hamas-bans-women

I feel really scared by the every increasing numbers of veiled women, scared by how these people view women, the view that a female identity is not for public view. I don't see men in Burquas or Hijabs. It probably won't impact on my life but I feel scared.

I'd appreciate it if this thread isn't blindly labelled as Islamophobic,but if it is then I'm happy to be considered Islamophobic. I believe in womens equality and of lgbtq people If that's Islamophobia,fine

Gbear

Are they homophobic/misogynist/sexist because they're religious are they homophobic/misogynist/sexist and religious because of some other factor?

My bet is on the latter.

The lack of education, the lack of money, the inequality between sexes and the oppressive religion are probably all factors in this.

I don't think waving a magic wand and removing religion would actually solve anything. It's as much a symptom as it is a problem in itself.

Slow progress in all those areas will gradually lead to some countries arriving into the modern era.

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

Are they homophobic/misogynist/sexist because they're religious are they homophobic/misogynist/sexist and religious because of some other factor?

My bet is on the latter.

Handy shield for them.

The lack of education, the lack of money, the inequality between sexes and the oppressive religion are probably all factors in this.

I don't think waving a magic wand and removing religion would actually solve anything. It's as much a symptom as it is a problem in itself.

Slow progress in all those areas will gradually lead to some countries arriving into the modern era.

Which countries? It seems that the problem is being imported to areas in Europe, Europe being made up of countries who are in the "modern era".

Paramite Pie

Immigrants from much more conservative countries probably experience culture shock when they go West and perhaps this makes them look more inwards and adopt their motherland's traditions more feverently.

Many of these people probably have the same opinions regarding women and sexuality as Ireland did 100 years ago. It wasn't that long ago that Catholic men and women had separate seating in a church and that Catholic women had to cover their heads with shauls inside the Church!!

Also only Saudi Arabia makes it mandatory (by law) for women to wear burqas whereas cultural pressure (esp from family) is the main problem elsewhere.

Younger generations of women in North Africa tend to lean towards western style clothes and in Morrocco for example the middle and upper class tend to frown upon the hijab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hijab_world2.png

In Tunisia, the government banned the hijab way back in 1981 from government and educational buildings and banned it completey in 2006, considering it to be 'sectarian'. The total ban was over-turned in 2011.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5382946.stm


The middle east is a volatile land of inequality and the upper and middle class seem to be pushing forward while the rural working class (uneducated) are falling victim to sectarianism/Islamic extremism. Hopefully with better education they can move forward. Governments could be toppled overnight by the working class if they created more liberal laws on these issues.

They have a tense uphill battle ahead.

Real Life

we are not entering a new dark age of misgogyny and homophobia, i would say its not as bad now as it was previously. Its just the news of these things happening is more available.
If anything things are getting better. Of course there is still a lot of horrendous cases of it, particularly in the middle east and africa. But i think we are progressing. Unfortunately its not happening quick enough and too many people have to continue to endure such hardships.

monkeypants

Freiheit wrote: »

Are we entering a new dark age of assertive Islam and Christianity?

No. Pick up a history book and find me a time where there was more tolerance.

Bannasidhe

monkeypants wrote: »

No. Pick up a history book and find me a time where there was more tolerance.

I too would be interested in learning about this Golden Age when women were completely equal and no-one gave a flying what gender consenting adults got it on with.

Paramite Pie

Paramite Pie wrote: »

The middle east is a volatile land of inequality and the upper and middle class seem to be pushing forward while the rural working class (uneducated) are falling victim to sectarianism/Islamic extremism. Hopefully with better education they can move forward. Governments could be toppled overnight by the working class if they created more liberal laws on these issues.

They have a tense uphill battle ahead.

How do you mean the upper and middle classes are pushing forward? And what is the extent of the Middle East to which you refer? There are countries which had reforms forced on them by outside powers and surprisingly when weight was lifted they reverted, sometimes further than before. As for the lower classes being the more sectarian etc., they may be in more obvious but in many cases they're just pawns and it's the upper and middle classes using them for their own sectarian and political ends.

Sarky

I think it's more noticeable because it's shrinking. The less popular religion becomes for example, the more hardline and/or crazy the hangers-on appear, or become. There are a few "hardcore" Catholics to be found Over Yonder, and to be honest they terrify me sometimes. But 50 years ago nobody would have batted an eyelid at their opinions.

How much of it is us loosening up or them getting stricter, that's a matter for debate. Perspective is a tricky business.

PopePalpatine

Sarky wrote: »

I think it's more noticeable because it's shrinking. The less popular religion becomes for example, the more hardline and/or crazy the hangers-on appear, or become. There are a few "hardcore" Catholics to be found Over Yonder, and to be honest they terrify me sometimes. But 50 years ago nobody would have batted an eyelid at their opinions.

How much of it is us loosening up or them getting stricter, that's a matter for debate. Perspective is a tricky business.

I think it is us loosening up. As you said, nobody would have been surprised if they proclaimed that de gheys were Untermenschen, even in 1983.

Cabaal

A age of people not being sexually repressed who no longer think that god will strike them down for masturbating, yeah this is awful!

Azure_sky

Humans created a series of bigoted religious doctrines. It's stands to reason that removing the respective bigoted doctrines will not alter the source of bigotry; which is humanity.

Links234

Azure_sky wrote: »

Humans created a series of bigoted religious doctrines. It's stands to reason that removing the respective bigoted doctrines will not alter the source of bigotry; which is humanity.

That doesn't stand to reason at all.

Said doctrines come from a different era entirely when human kind knew little of the world around them, the issue being that the immovability of the religion tries to drag humanity back to that era. it's like if science was still in it's formative stages and refused to move on, insisting that the only elements are fire, water, air and earth (and heart).

robindch

Azure_sky wrote: »

Humans created a series of bigoted religious doctrines. It's stands to reason that removing the respective bigoted doctrines will not alter the source of bigotry; which is humanity.

"Guns don't kill people. People do".

Dades

Man City 10 posts removed for trolling. So too were the reasoned responses, sorry!

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

Man City 10 posts removed for trolling. So too were the reasoned responses, sorry!

Mine was like a razor of reason through his flimsy worldview - you've destroyed a work of art this day, Dades!

Dades

Better your post (which I can PM you for safe keeping!) than the thread. The gangrenous limbs had to be severed. :pac:

Azure_sky

Links234 wrote: »

Said doctrines come from a different era entirely when human kind knew little of the world around them, the issue being that the immovability of the religion tries to drag humanity back to that era. it's like if science was still in it's formative stages and refused to move on, insisting that the only elements are fire, water, air and earth (and heart).

A lack of scientific knowledge would explain creation myths within respective doctrines but it does not explain bigotry-at least not fully. One possible theory is that these tribes were small in number and were desperate for their respective tribe to survive so they needed as many people to reproduce as possible. When they realised that some members of their tribe, who were gay, were not reproducing they came up with these religious laws in a misguided attempt to force them to reproduce. Perhaps this mentality continues as some form of evolutionary remnant. We still have this tribalistic mentality; football matches etc.

So it's not so much about religion as it is about evolution psychology etc. Religion itself is just a by product of evolution. It again returns to us, as humans, as the source of bigotry.

Gbear

Azure_sky wrote: »

A lack of scientific knowledge would explain creation myths within respective doctrines but it does not explain bigotry-at least not fully. One possible theory is that these tribes were small in number and were desperate for their respective tribe to survive so they needed as many people to reproduce as possible. When they realised that some members of their tribe, who were gay, were not reproducing they came up with these religious laws in a misguided attempt to force them to reproduce. Perhaps this mentality continues as some form of evolutionary remnant. We still have this tribalistic mentality; football matches etc.

So it's not so much about religion as it is about evolution psychology etc. Religion itself is just a by product of evolution. It again returns to us, as humans, as the source of bigotry.

I think the same tribalism responsible for other fears of difference (racism and so forth) are at play.
It's pretty telling that you often see overlap in various kinds of bigotry and ignorance.

Morag

Found this a while back, it's interesting, a collection of photos from Iran in the 50s, 60s and up until 79 when the regime changed. So really it is the use of religion to oppress and control, religion being used as a tool rather then the cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF47rrHd7wo

Zillah

Morag wrote: »

So really it is the use of religion to oppress and control, religion being used as a tool rather then the cause.

Can't it be both?

jhegarty

Zillah wrote: »

Can't it be both?

Was there a change or Religion or a change of leaders after the revolution ?

Man City 10

No matter how amount you explain some ignorant people just do not understand
Like they say
You cannot teach dumb to a dumb person or else you will turn dumb

robindch

Man City 10 wrote: »

No matter how amount you explain some ignorant people just do not understand [...]

Well, that may or may not be true in your case, since -- as Dades explained earlier on today -- you're trolling the forum and you've decided to ignore his (indirect) moderator warning. Further trolling will see you taking an early holiday from the forum.

I hope this explanation will help you understand.

keane2097

Man City 10 wrote: »

No matter how amount you explain some ignorant people just do not understand
Like they say
You cannot teach dumb to a dumb person or else you will turn dumb

Said no one, ever.

Pace2008

Man City 10 wrote: »

Like they say
You cannot teach dumb to a dumb person or else you will turn dumb

Ah yes, Oscar Wilde if I'm not mistaken?