April babies and starting school

snooze 4

My daughter was born mid April so she will either be the oldest or youngest in her class - the cut off in her school is end of April. She will be 3 this coming April but I need to make a decision soon because of the free preschool year.

I'm inclined to wait until she is 5 but am worried that she will be ancient compared to the others :-) There will be two May girls starting that year but no guarantee they will be put together.

She is also a bit of a clever clogs as girls often are at this age...good with numbers eg can match correct number with amounts up to 10 (haven't tried to go beyond this) do simple addition/subtraction, recognises all upper and lower case alphabet by age 2 (never consciously thought her she just picked it up) knows colours/shapes etc by age 1 and a half. Before people jump in, I know my daughter is not a genius but she is smart. I am thinking that with 2 years of preschool she will find junior infants very tedious once the novelty wears off, especially if the others are much younger than her. But equally I think 4 is too young for any child to start - emotionally anyway and all the research points to older is better.

I would especially love feedback from primary school teachers. Thanks.

mallika

My daugter was a may baby and like your daughter, knew all her numbers, colours etc. creche said she would be bored there another year, HOWEVER, owner of creche (mother of 5) and work colleagues who had kids all advised to wait until 5, but hubbie really thought she should go so I talked to teachers in school who said no problem. looking back now, it was a country school and they needed numbers. anyways, she was the youngest, giddy and immature compared to others in class and on average 6-8 months younger than everyone. Teacher said she was in the mid to top of her class academically but immature. in the next year, she was no better, still doing very well academically but giddy and immature. I was in and out that year checking on her, worried and decided to keep her back. She would have been too young going into secondary school and going to college. I don't worry about her anymore. Doing great. 3 older than her in class. only thing is I think her confidence was knocked being held back but she made friends very quickly. Son also may baby. sent him at 5. no probs at all. oldest in class but other mothers going in and out of school as their kids struggling or being bullied(not really, just a very rough kid in class). son is far better at handling problems in playground and gets on very well with his class and the class above him so loads of friends. Only advice I can give you is that you will never regret sending them to school too late, but you will regret sending them too early.

snooze 4

mallika wrote: »

My daugter was a may baby and like your daughter, knew all her numbers, colours etc. creche said she would be bored there another year, HOWEVER, owner of creche (mother of 5) and work colleagues who had kids all advised to wait until 5, but hubbie really thought she should go so I talked to teachers in school who said no problem. looking back now, it was a country school and they needed numbers. anyways, she was the youngest, giddy and immature compared to others in class and on average 6-8 months younger than everyone. Teacher said she was in the mid to top of her class academically but immature. in the next year, she was no better, still doing very well academically but giddy and immature. I was in and out that year checking on her, worried and decided to keep her back. She would have been too young going into secondary school and going to college. I don't worry about her anymore. Doing great. 3 older than her in class. only thing is I think her confidence was knocked being held back but she made friends very quickly. Son also may baby. sent him at 5. no probs at all. oldest in class but other mothers going in and out of school as their kids struggling or being bullied(not really, just a very rough kid in class). son is far better at handling problems in playground and gets on very well with his class and the class above him so loads of friends. Only advice I can give you is that you will never regret sending them to school too late, but you will regret sending them too early.

Hey thanks for the reply. I'm tearing my hair out over this. It is the kind of decision that could make or break a child's school experience. Good to hear that your daughter is doing well now. I know of an August child who was really clever and was enrolled at 4! Creche said he'd be bored. Years later he is academically solid but hates school ... He is the youngest and the smallest ... And you know in this life size matters!

mallika

by the way, I took the free childcare place when my son was 3 instead of 4 as I was afraid it would be taken away. it doesn't have to be used the year before school. lots of parents change their minds. good luck with your decision.

lazygal

I prefer children to be five starting school, not for the earlier years but for doing the leaving certificate, college and work. I don't see the rush. I know people who regret sending children in a year early but no one who regrets waiting.

huskerdu

I understand your dilemma. I had the same situation.

My first child was a June baby and I waited until she was 5. She was smart, had a great montesorri teacher so learnt loads before school.

Dont worry about a child being bored in Junior Infants, There is enough going on in Junior infants to keep them busy. The school will probably use a system of phonics, not the alphabet so there is lots to do and learn even for smart kids.

I have never regretted waiting until 5 and I still think she is better off being the oldest in the class.

The decision has v, little to do with Junior infants. You have to think about the childs entire education, up to Leaving cert and college.

I had no choice with child no. 2. who was born in Sept, so that was easy.

HOWEVER, no 3 was born in April and I did send him at 4 1/2. I wasn;t sure but I felt that at 5 1/2, he might be the eldest in the class by a lot. He's in JI now, and getting on fine, but too early to tell if it was the right thing or not.


Anyway, go with your gut instinct

ian87

My tuppence worth. I was a June baby and started at just gone 4. Further on down the line my dad, a NS teacher, held me back. I was too young/immature. Best thing he ever did, as he was sorry he didn't just wait.

I'm an NS teacher myself and the way I'd look at it is maturity at that age. Academically they might be well able but by waiting until shes that bit older will pay off. What harm if she is the oldest in the class, someone has to be! And any teacher worth their salt will be accommodating children who are more able for work as they would children who have learning difficulties. Special educational needs are looked at not just from the children who experience difficulties, but also the able exceptionally able childrens needs.

jennyhayes123

My son was 5 in the April. I sent him that September and it was best decision ever. I would use end January as a cut off point. It's nothing to do with intelligence for me. It's the end of there not a care in the world when they start school. There time enough going at 5 + plus think of when they finish school. My birthday is April too. I was started at 4 but did transition year to avoid being to young leaving.

snooze 4

Thanks for the feedback. I was a June baby myself and started at 4. I remember giggling my way through First year... Not a tap of work done and ended up doing the Leaving at age 16!

My big old gut is telling me to wait because I do think emotional maturity is essential to overall academic success. Plus as pointed out above once school starts the truly carefree days are over

Cheers

dahamsta

5 is the new normal these days, following the likes of Poland. My wife says ours will be going at 5, and I trust her research. :-)

Kathnora

Don't forget to factor in Transition Year in your calculations as that would mean your child would be 18 doing the Leaving. Also, if she starts at 5 and then wants to do TY that would make her 19 doing the Leaving. It is possible that TY could become mandatory by the time your child gets to that stage too. A few years ago an April birthday wouldn't have been considered too young for sending a child to school at 4 but now that the average child is nearer to 5 starting school it probably does make a difference. However, your child is bright and I'm impressed by her level of literacy and numeracy at age 3. I would be inclined to send her this Sept with the option of holding her back a class if that is deemed necessary. She will be able for the work, that's for sure. In my experience the child who struggles through primary is the one who does find the work difficult and is also a very young child.

snooze 4

Kathnora wrote: »

Don't forget to factor in Transition Year in your calculations as that would mean your child would be 18 doing the Leaving. Also, if she starts at 5 and then wants to do TY that would make her 19 doing the Leaving. It is possible that TY could become mandatory by the time your child gets to that stage too. A few years ago an April birthday wouldn't have been considered too young for sending a child to school at 4 but now that the average child is nearer to 5 starting school it probably does make a difference. However, your child is bright and I'm impressed by her level of literacy and numeracy at age 3. I would be inclined to send her this Sept with the option of holding her back a class if that is deemed necessary. She will be able for the work, that's for sure. In my experience the child who struggles through primary is the one who does find the work difficult and is also a very young child.

You make some interesting points. I suppose I am a bit concerned that because she is bright that this plus being much older than the average age in class will mean she will be 'out of sync' with the rest of the class. It is a difficult subject to broach especially with teachers as I'm sure they must think, 'here comes another pushy mom who thinks her child is too smart for the other kids!'

The thing is I don't know what the average almost 3 year old can do. Does being a bit if a fox at 3 indicate high intelligence? I know a parent who told me her son was a bit of a clever clogs when he started school but as the years passed the others in his class caught up with him and now he's average. Bottom line I just want her to be happy in school. Average sounds wonderful to me. I think if kids are happy they'll learn....

What's nagging me though (oh God here I go again) a few weeks ago we were putting candles on a cake (we only had 3) and out of the blue I said to her If I gave you four candles and then I gave you two more how many would you have? As quick as a flash she answered correctly. Then I asked her if I gave you 10 candles and I took 1 away what would you have ... She answered correctly. What surprised me was the speed. Now maybe that's fairly average or not? Like I said above children develop at different rates and it could all even out as she goes up the grades?

Thank you all for indulging me. I know how boring other people's children are

byhookorbycrook

There is also talk about pulling transition year, so factor that in. It is very difficult to keep a child back now,age is not a reason anymore, so that also needs tp be considered too.As a general rule, I'd prefer older.(Learning support teacher)Being bright academically doesn't mean automatically that school will come easily, social aspects are also very important in infants.

December2012

Do her free ecce place this year. That way you can decide next year if you're going to send her to school and you can pay for some playschool, Montessori then.

If you decide to wait until she's 5 (I'm in the same boat), and you are worried she's bored, then introduce something else for her to learn outside school that year, such as swimming, football or a musical instrument.

muckisluck

Once your child is in school you will find all your choices will disappear. School will dictate (on their terms) whether she moves on a class or stays back, whether she gets to do transition year or not etc. Schools are now very much discouraged from keeping children back so very few of them will countenance that happening. The old saying "If in doubt, leave it out" was invented for a reason. If you are unsure maybe you should take more time and send her next year. Personally I wouldn't dream of sending a child to school at 4 in April. I did my Leaving Cert at 17, went to college and hated every minute of it. I was just too young for the transition from home to the big bad world. And just to confuse you even more my mother felt the same and didn't send me to school until I was 5(May birthday). That should have worked but the school thought I was too bright and told my parents I needed to skip a class to keep me challenged. In hindsight from my perspective a totally wrong decision.

lazygal

Its not as easy to just repeat a year. A child will be expected to move up the classes unless there's a good reason not too and assessments are done. You can't expect to be able to hedge bets on repeating a year like in years gone by, another reason not to rush into school.

ejak1

snooze 4 wrote: »

My daughter was born mid April so she will either be the oldest or youngest in her class - the cut off in her school is end of April. She will be 3 this coming April but I need to make a decision soon because of the free preschool year.

I'm inclined to wait until she is 5 but am worried that she will be ancient compared to the others :-) There will be two May girls starting that year but no guarantee they will be put together.

She is also a bit of a clever clogs as girls often are at this age...good with numbers eg can match correct number with amounts up to 10 (haven't tried to go beyond this) do simple addition/subtraction, recognises all upper and lower case alphabet by age 2 (never consciously thought her she just picked it up) knows colours/shapes etc by age 1 and a half. Before people jump in, I know my daughter is not a genius but she is smart. I am thinking that with 2 years of preschool she will find junior infants very tedious once the novelty wears off, especially if the others are much younger than her. But equally I think 4 is too young for any child to start - emotionally anyway and all the research points to older is better.

I would especially love feedback from primary school teachers. Thanks.

Hi there. I'm replying as both a parent and a secondary teacher. I sent my own child to school at 4, born in May, as he has been fine. Didn't need to stay back at all and didn't struggle. He is 11 now and will be 12 starting secondary school in September. Nearly all of his classmates are the same age and that is important for kids, for birthday parties, height, build, interests etc. As a secondary teacher I find that some of the kids are too old at 19 to be in school. Some of them are even going on 20 in their Leaving Cert year. They are technically adults and emotionally and socially are too old for school at this stage. If you want to start your child at 4, they can make up a year by doing TY and still be 18 doing the leaving Cert. This is mature enough. Hope this helps.

rainbowdrop

Just another +1 for letting them start at 5.
My daughter started school at 4, and was always nearly the youngest in the class. Looking at it fom an academic point of view, it was never a problem because she was smart, but it became an issue when she got to aged 8/9 as she had to play on sports teams with girls from the class below her in school (small town, 1 national school and under 9s, under 10s, under 11s teams etc). It got so that she lost interest in playing sports because she was not on the same team as her classmates.

She's just turned 16 now, and doing TY, which will give her an extra year to mature a bit before doing the leaving/college....

So, I would definitely say let them start later rather than earlier.

pwurple

Maybe I'm an exception, but I'm an april baby myself. I went to school at 4. I didn't do transition year. I did a good leaving cert. not the perfect 600, but pretty good, and I got the course I wanted. Went to college at 17. No problem there either, bar looking a bit younger than my age too, and no decent false id, so no drinking until 2nd year. No harm! Decent degree under the belt at 21.

My daughter is a march child, and I'll see how she is when we get there, but I will have no qualms about sending her at 4 if she wants to go.

Jocelynel

i have twins (boy/girl) and had the same dilemma last year, but let them start school in september. i just had my parent / teacher review and was told that they are capable and holding their own and don't stand out as the youngest in their classes (they are in separate classes). quite a few kids turning 5 this month and i know of many more turning 5 in april/may and june this year.

i would also add that you have 5 year olds turning 6 aswell, so good luck with your decision!!

whiteandlight

I was held back for being 'socially immature'. It was an awful experience. I was way ahead of my peers academically even before I stayed back and I ended up older than everyone. I hated it, I never settled properly again until I went to college and I truly feel that I was too old doing my leaving cert.

Elliejo

You know your own child best. I had an April boy, he was bright but in no way mature enough to start school at four and a half. I then had a May girl. She was streets ahead of him at the same age, and I did send her at four and a half. I have no regrets with either of them.

I too was April born. In the dark ages when I started school, you could enrol on your 4th birthday, so I started that April. In June, at four years and 3 months, I was sent on to Senior Infants, leaving me just 11 going in to secondary school. I got as far as third year before I was made repeat a year as I wasn't allowed to do Inter Cert (now Junior Cert) as I wasn't 14 by the 1st January that year.

snooze 4

Elliejo wrote: »

I too was April born. In the dark ages when I started school, you could enrol on your 4th birthday, so I started that April. In June, at four years and 3 months, I was sent on to Senior Infants, leaving me just 11 going in to secondary school. I got as far as third year before I was made repeat a year as I wasn't allowed to do Inter Cert (now Junior Cert) as I wasn't 14 by the 1st January that year.

Second level at 11? I am stunned!!

Cailin CoisFarraige

I turned 4 in July and started school the following September. I was just 12 starting secondary school, and opted not to do TY, meaning I did my Leaving Cert at 16 and am now a fully qualified teacher myself at 20.

I always did very well in school, but I was also very mature for my age (more so than many of my friends who were a year older than me). I don't think it held me back in the slightest. From the point of view of a student who started young, AND of a teacher, I think the maturity of your child should have a lot more influence on you than their academic ability.

thesimpsons

ejak1 wrote: »

Hi there. I'm replying as both a parent and a secondary teacher. I sent my own child to school at 4, born in May, as he has been fine. Didn't need to stay back at all and didn't struggle. He is 11 now and will be 12 starting secondary school in September. Nearly all of his classmates are the same age and that is important for kids, for birthday parties, height, build, interests etc. As a secondary teacher I find that some of the kids are too old at 19 to be in school. Some of them are even going on 20 in their Leaving Cert year. They are technically adults and emotionally and socially are too old for school at this stage. If you want to start your child at 4, they can make up a year by doing TY and still be 18 doing the leaving Cert. This is mature enough. Hope this helps.

as parent of older kids, I fully agree with this. 18 in 5th year, wanting to go out, I'm an adult, you can't make me study, too old for petty school rules, etc, etc, etc.

daughter was 4 in june starting school, came out in LC at just 18, over 550 points, herself and friend (4 in July), off to college fine, were the most mature of the whole class. Her friends who were older than her are struggling in college now, away from home, don't know how to study, look after themselves, skipping lectures, missing deadlines, etc.

Rule of the story ..... you will never know what is the right or the wrong answer to this one, you just have to work with whatever way it turns out.

snooze 4

snooze 4 wrote: »

The thing is I don't know what the average almost 3 year old can do. Does being a bit if a fox at 3 indicate high intelligence? I know a parent who told me her son was a bit of a clever clogs when he started school but as the years passed the others in his class caught up with him and now he's average.

It's sad to think a bright child might not be stimulated enough so that he doesn't bother anymore. Not enough support is given to bright children in general

Anyway
I'll weigh in on the other side OP and tell you that you can't depend on what everyone else does. If your child is bright enough to start school and you think they can handle it, go for it. If you think they wouldn't be able to settle, don't. I started 1st class at 4 and I've never had age/social problems. Others might have.
Remember as well that they don't necessarily have to go to college as soon as the LC is over. If they have their LC done at 15/16/17 they could try do another course or find a job, travel a bit, etc. It's not all one path without any gaps.

If you choose not to send her to school this year, please think about other classes outside of school that would stimulate her, e.g. music lessons.

elaney

I have the same delimma as you op.. My fella will be three in May he is also a bright child and very big for his age I also worry he will be older than the rest of the kids when he starts school. I decided to go and talk to the lady in the local playschool last week she advised me to start him in September for two days a week and she will assess him and let me know if he will be ready at four. I am lucky in the sense I live in the country so don't need to enrol him until the summer before he is due to start.

by the seaside

A bit late joining the discussion.

We have a different perspective, as here in England it is the norm (not actually compulsory but pretty eccentric to diverge from the norm) to start school in the September following 4th birthday. My little girl is a July baby and one of her friend s is very end of August so 4 years and a couple of days when starting. And they do longer days here - two weeks of half days then 8:50 to 3:15. We had misgivings about it. Our daughter is smallest in the class, she is bright enough, socially competent but we had some concerns about her emotional maturity. When she started, they were all very tired, and she particularly so, and we got a diagnosis of coeliac disease - hence the small size and tiredness. In the Irish system, we probably would have put it off for a year. But...

We are so glad she has gone to school. She has blossomed as a person and come along fantastically at literacy - she was way behind at starting school as we decided not to teach reading and writing beforehand, although she knew the letters and is pretty good with numbers. She has matured emotionally and branched out from her tiny clique of girl friends (they're still all good buddies) to make new good friends and even plays with stinky boy, which is a relief after two years of solid princess dressing up play.

On refection, I think that your child will probably be fine either way. We worry about things excessively because it's our job but it's not always necessary. So, only you know what's best. Once you accept that it will probably be fine whatever you do, you can make the decision, not based on fear, but on your values and instincts - not what is' right or wrong', but what is right for you as a family.

Best of luck.

Jocelynel

by the seaside wrote: »

A bit late joining the discussion.

We have a different perspective, as here in England it is the norm (not actually compulsory but pretty eccentric to diverge from the norm) to start school in the September following 4th birthday. My little girl is a July baby and one of her friend s is very end of August so 4 years and a couple of days when starting. And they do longer days here - two weeks of half days then 8:50 to 3:15. We had misgivings about it. Our daughter is smallest in the class, she is bright enough, socially competent but we had some concerns about her emotional maturity. When she started, they were all very tired, and she particularly so, and we got a diagnosis of coeliac disease - hence the small size and tiredness. In the Irish system, we probably would have put it off for a year. But...

We are so glad she has gone to school. She has blossomed as a person and come along fantastically at literacy - she was way behind at starting school as we decided not to teach reading and writing beforehand, although she knew the letters and is pretty good with numbers. She has matured emotionally and branched out from her tiny clique of girl friends (they're still all good buddies) to make new good friends and even plays with stinky boy, which is a relief after two years of solid princess dressing up play.

On refection, I think that your child will probably be fine either way. We worry about things excessively because it's our job but it's not always necessary. So, only you know what's best. Once you accept that it will probably be fine whatever you do, you can make the decision, not based on fear, but on your values and instincts - not what is' right or wrong', but what is right for you as a family.

Best of luck.

what a lovely post ...my hubby also from UK, so he was all for our twins to start last september, and i'm delighted they did albeit christmas before i was able to judge if i did the right thing or not

Moonbeam

The best person to ask is her play school teacher she will know if she is emotionally mature enough for school.

Pansygirl

My son will be 3 on friday but I have decided not to send him to playschool in September. I will send him for 2 days per week from January on and enrol him for free ECCE year when he is 4. (My reason for waiting til Jan is that I'm due in Aug and I don't want him to feel that he's being pushed out the door to make room for new baby - probably overthinking the whole thing!)

He is a tall boy and I'm a bit worried that he'll be picked on for being bigger than the rest but my brother was a May baby and sent to school at 4 to keep numbers up and get an extra teacher, he was very immature and struggled to settle in and when he did his leaving cert he was way too immature to leave home. He wasted his first year in college and ended up having to repeat.

I'm looking at the long term for my son and as other posters have said, its not always an option to do TY as schools can dictate who does and who doesn't.

Personally, I was an Oct baby so was turning 5 starting and there were 3 older than me. My teacher was also of the opinion that I was bright and made me work with the class ahead although never officially moved me up a year. This completely alienated me from my classmates as no one wanted to hang out with the "sap" and the older kids in the class ahead thought I was a child. It made me hate my time at national school, I only felt settled when I went to secondary school and met new friends that were my age and completely unaware of my national school history.

I attended university in Northern Ireland where I was the youngest in my class and did feel young at 17 turning 18 but if I were to send my son at 4 he would be almost finished his first year before he'd even turn 18.

This has turned into a bit of an epistle so I hope I haven't bored ye all to death!!!

Hello 1996

Im going into 5th year now and I was born in April. I started when I was 5 so I was one(and still am) one of the oldest in my class. TBH, I find it very helpful, as I am a year more mature than some and therefore find my work a little bit easier. You also wont have to worry about underage drinking haha