Pattern of getting run down(not knocked down :) after races

rom

I have noticed a pattern start from races I do. Basically I do the race and then between a week and 10 days I have a chest infection/flu/head cold or similar. It holds true for the last 7 races I have done.


Ballycotton 3rd March 2013 - Sick 10 days later (did take it handy but still got sick)
Dungarvan 27th Jan 2013 - Sick 7 days later (did too much the following week)
Belgooly 26th Dec 2012 - Sick 11 Days later (had 5 days off and still got sick)
DCM 29th Oct 2012 - Sick 13 Days later (even with a full weeks rest)
Charlavile 1/2 23rd Sept - Was sick doing it and got sick again after it.
Frank Duffy 25th Aug - Sick 5 days later
5K 11th July - Sick 18 days later

I going to the sports doc tomorrow and asking him about this and will get my bloods done and it will be his advise that I will be taking but I am wondering if this happens to other people also ?

I have been lucky to have zero injuries for a long time but it's these sicknesses that set me back a few days in training that do my head in. Incidentally I have recently started to measure my heart rate variability as well as resting hr each morning. The HRv did predict that this was going to happen with a big drop the day before I got sick where the rest HR showed nothing.

Krusty_Clown

I've picked up a few bugs after big A goal races, but not with any great consistency, so in my case wouldn't really point at a cause and affect. I do tend to go out on the lash after an A goal race, so certainly not the right thing to do, as it really puts my body through the wringer, but after six weeks of moderation, I tend to need an outlet!

The blood tests might give you an answer in the forms of a deficiency. Good luck.

dernipper

It has also happened to me, nothing major though, going on the lash post race certainly increaes the chances of an occurence, i just take it as the bodies way of saying take a rest for a week But if it is happening that regularly there is certainly no harm in checking it out,

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I've picked up a few bugs after big A goal races, but not with any great consistency, so in my case wouldn't really point at a cause and affect. I do tend to go out on the lash after an A goal race, so certainly not the right thing to do, as it really puts my body through the wringer, but after six weeks of moderation, I tend to need an outlet!

The blood tests might give you an answer in the forms of a deficiency. Good luck.

Ceepo

rom wrote: »

I have noticed a pattern start from races I do. Basically I do the race and then between a week and 10 days I have a chest infection/flu/head cold or similar. It holds true for the last 7 races I have done.


Ballycotton 3rd March 2013 - Sick 10 days later (did take it handy but still got sick)
Dungarvan 27th Jan 2013 - Sick 7 days later (did too much the following week)
Belgooly 26th Dec 2012 - Sick 11 Days later (had 5 days off and still got sick)
DCM 29th Oct 2012 - Sick 13 Days later (even with a full weeks rest)
Charlavile 1/2 23rd Sept - Was sick doing it and got sick again after it.
Frank Duffy 25th Aug - Sick 5 days later
5K 11th July - Sick 18 days later

I going to the sports doc tomorrow and asking him about this and will get my bloods done and it will be his advise that I will be taking but I am wondering if this happens to other people also ?

I have been lucky to have zero injuries for a long time but it's these sicknesses that set me back a few days in training that do my head in. Incidentally I have recently started to measure my heart rate variability as well as resting hr each morning. The HRv did predict that this was going to happen with a big drop the day before I got sick where the rest HR showed nothing.

On the face if it, it would appear you are over training. Or not giving yourself recovery between sessions, running your easy run to hard.
I think you keep a log ?. But I dont follow it, but im sure there might be some clues there.
If course the blood test will give some more info, and will helo rule in/out any medical issues.

rom

Ceepo wrote: »

On the face if it, it would appear you are over training. Or not giving yourself recovery between sessions, running your easy run to hard.
I think you keep a log ?. But I dont follow it, but im sure there might be some clues there.
If course the blood test will give some more info, and will helo rule in/out any medical issues.

I normally do 2 session and a long run with everything else easy. Easy being 50 beats below my max hr. i monitor my resting hr and take rest days when its elevated. I am running much less this year so far but am sick more often.

Hope the blood test will tell me something as the last one gave no clues.

Diet has got much better too. At this stage I dont want to race if I am going to get si k afterwards.

TFBubendorfer

Ceepo wrote: »

On the face if it, it would appear you are over training. Or not giving yourself recovery between sessions, running your easy run to hard.

If he had these issue in training I would agree, but if it only happens after racing I don't think outright overtraining is the case, but he could be close to the edge alright.

Respiratory problems after races, especially after marathons, are fairly common. Runners are definitely more susceptible after a hard race effort. Going on a lash certainly would not help, but I have no idea what your usual after-race routine is like.

It happened a couple of times after races to me as well, but nowhere near as regularly as that.

Ceepo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

If he had these issue in training I would agree, but if it only happens after racing I don't think outright overtraining is the case, but he could be close to the edge alright.

Respiratory problems after races, especially after marathons, are fairly common. Runners are definitely more susceptible after a hard race effort. Going on a lash certainly would not help, but I have no idea what your usual after-race routine is like.

It happened a couple of times after races to me as well, but nowhere near as regularly as that.

If the race is a tipping point to sickness, then I would be looking to over training as a factor.
Yes there us a higher probability if infection etc after longer raced marathons etc. But it us also happening after shorter races 5k/4ml
Also it is happening over a long period of time, which might lead to the same conclusion.
In general you shouldn't be getting sick after each and every race.
@ rom
50 beats under max is not always recovery even if it seams easy

Gambas

rom wrote: »

Ballycotton 3rd March 2013 - Sick 10 days later (did take it handy but still got sick)
Dungarvan 27th Jan 2013 - Sick 7 days later (did too much the following week)
Belgooly 26th Dec 2012 - Sick 11 Days later (had 5 days off and still got sick)
DCM 29th Oct 2012 - Sick 13 Days later (even with a full weeks rest)
Charlavile 1/2 23rd Sept - Was sick doing it and got sick again after it.
Frank Duffy 25th Aug - Sick 5 days later
5K 11th July - Sick 18 days later
.

Are they the only times you've been sick in that time period?

drquirky

Do you dial down the training a bit after races? I find that when I go from say 50-60 miles a week down to 25 or 30 with less intensity, I always get sick. I think I read somewhere about how your immune system has to function at speed when you are training intensely and at decent milage but when that drops, your immune system gets suppressed. Basically this is the reason people get sick on their marathon tapers (I'm totally open to correction though). If you are dropping your milage and intensity for a period after these races maybe the taper sickness thing is to blame?

dna_leri

Why exercise should affect either your susceptibility to catching an illness or how badly a particular bug affects you is still unclear. But it does appear that intense workouts and racing suppress the body’s immune response for a period of time immediately after you’ve finished exercising and that “the longer the duration and the more intense” the exercise, “the longer the temporary period of immunosuppression lasts — anything from a few hours to a few days has been suggested,” says Nicolette Bishop, an associate professor of sport and exercise sciences at Loughborough University and the author of a review article about exercise and immunity published in January.

See http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/phys-ed-does-exercise-boost-immunity/

rom

Sports doc says not overtraining from my blood results last time which was a few months ago. I would get sick like this often before I started running also. A doc before said I had a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-nasal_drip so I am going to take a inhaler for that and see if it improves.

rom

Gambas wrote: »

Are they the only times you've been sick in that time period?

yes. All post race except for Charleville.

DogSlySmile

When I read the thread title I thought this was going to be about runners getting hit by cars after races:pac:

Ceepo

rom wrote: »

Sports doc says not overtraining from my blood results last time which was a few months ago. I would get sick like this often before I started running also.

Maybe you should have put this in your 1st post


A doc before said I had a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-nasal_drip so I am going to take a inhaler for that and see if it improves.

As someone who suffers from nasal drip. I can say taking an inhaler does nothing for me.

This is my own view on it based on my experience.
I used to suffer at least 2 or 3 chest infections every year. Until I started to slow down onba lot if my runs, I still trained hard but just smarter the end result was 1 chest infection in 4 years.

But You dont have to listen or take my advice

Edit just to add my race time stayed pretty consistent

Brianderunner

OP, be very very careful here.

I myself was sick like you are now about once a month or so over a 6 month period just over a year ago before i went over the edge about this time last year. Extra mileage, coupled with possible redundancy and a long distance relationship reduced me to what is called a non functional overtraining state or parasympathetic overtraining. This has me ruled out for between 6 months and 2 years. All my blood tests were completely normal and still are now. Overtraining syndrome is basically a diagnosis of exclusion. On paper i am perfectly healthy.

info here; http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/The-Overtraining-Syndrome.pdf

Dr. Joe Conway (based near UCD) is about as good as you will find on the topic. A normal GP is beyond useless. He warned me that the monthly day long sicknesses i was experiencing were my bodies warning that the sh!t was about to hit the fan. But in chasing pb's etc i ignored the signs until the crash.

You say you're mileage is more or less the same, but has there been new stresses added to your life. Any job/money worries? (don't answer) Anything different at all between last year and now? Getting enough sleep etc? Nutrition/hydration ok? It's not all about the running volume/intensity. Life's stressers have to be included too.

If i were you i would forget about any upcoming race and ease back. Stick to easy mileage/recovery runs for a month or 2. Don't join me on the sidelines. It's not fun. Of course it could be something totally different but it sounds exactly the same as me 16 months ago.

I'd be hoping that the blood tests show something and fingers crossed they do.

rom

Ceepo wrote: »

As someone who suffers from nasal drip. I can say taking an inhaler does nothing for me.

This is my own view on it based on my experience.
I used to suffer at least 2 or 3 chest infections every year. Until I started to slow down onba lot if my runs, I still trained hard but just smarter the end result was 1 chest infection in 4 years.

But You dont have to listen or take my advice

Edit just to add my race time stayed pretty consistent

I am very open to advise as I have been missing weeks because of this. How can you train hard but slow down a lot in your runs?

I would go very slow on most runs except for the two weekly sessions. My long run pace and all non sessions run for DCM was about 9min/mile when MP was like 7:34 for DCM 2012.

PVincent

rom wrote: »

I am very open to advise as I have been missing weeks because of this. How can you train hard but slow down a lot in your runs?

I would go very slow on most runs except for the two weekly sessions. My long run pace and all non sessions run for DCM was about 9min/mile when MP was like 7:34 for DCM 2012.

looks like your immune system is the issue . I had very similar issue a few years ago. email me Tuesday to peter.Vincent@aviva.ie and i will be able to give you more info on how i sorted it

rom

Brianderunner wrote: »

OP, be very very careful here.

I myself was sick like you are now about once a month or so over a 6 month period just over a year ago before i went over the edge about this time last year. Extra mileage, coupled with possible redundancy and a long distance relationship reduced me to what is called a non functional overtraining state or parasympathetic overtraining. This has me ruled out for between 6 months and 2 years. All my blood tests were completely normal and still are now. Overtraining syndrome is basically a diagnosis of exclusion. On paper i am perfectly healthy.

info here; http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/The-Overtraining-Syndrome.pdf

Dr. Joe Conway (based near UCD) is about as good as you will find on the topic. A normal GP is beyond useless. He warned me that the monthly day long sicknesses i was experiencing were my bodies warning that the sh!t was about to hit the fan. But in chasing pb's etc i ignored the signs until the crash.

You say you're mileage is more or less the same, but has there been new stresses added to your life. Any job/money worries? (don't answer) Anything different at all between last year and now? Getting enough sleep etc? Nutrition/hydration ok? It's not all about the running volume/intensity. Life's stressers have to be included too.

If i were you i would forget about any upcoming race and ease back. Stick to easy mileage/recovery runs for a month or 2. Don't join me on the sidelines. It's not fun. Of course it could be something totally different but it sounds exactly the same as me 16 months ago.

I'd be hoping that the blood tests show something and fingers crossed they do.

Thanks very much for your detailed reply.
You make very interesting points regarding change in stress level. I suppose the biggest change has been I used to get up much later in the morning when my wife was on maternity leave. I work flexy-time but now with my daughter going to creche I am getting up an hour or more earlier so I need to better concentrate moreon sleep I think. Recently I going to bed at 10 or 11 now during the week.

Would agree that most GPs are no better than a vet. Mine is a sports medicine doctor that a lot of international athletes go to and do feel safe with him. You don't need to justify a blood test to him.

You say that your bloods never gave you details but here you say they did ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77956720&postcount=1462

No life/job/money worries thank god. The getting up earlier is the only thing that I can think of.

I would have to agree with you in respect to recovery. I don't have an A race for 6 months. I think I will be using HRv much more going forward and taking rest day when it tells me to. I did use restwise for a month but measure all them myself and generate a daily recovery score. I must say the HRv did warn me the day before this happened this time where resting HR did not. I did an easy 40 mins that day when I should have taken a days rest.

The only thing is that I used to get sick like this before I ran and was a lazy couch potato. My recovery time then was much longer for a sickness.

Re the blood tests. I have had them done in Nov too so I can see a trend now if there is one.
Thanks again.

rom

drquirky wrote: »

Do you dial down the training a bit after races? I find that when I go from say 50-60 miles a week down to 25 or 30 with less intensity, I always get sick. I think I read somewhere about how your immune system has to function at speed when you are training intensely and at decent milage but when that drops, your immune system gets suppressed. Basically this is the reason people get sick on their marathon tapers (I'm totally open to correction though). If you are dropping your milage and intensity for a period after these races maybe the taper sickness thing is to blame?

I would taper into most races and have an easy week after.

rom

PVincent wrote: »

looks like your immune system is the issue . I had very similar issue a few years ago. email me Tuesday to x and i will be able to give you more info on how i sorted it

Dropped you a mail there.

Mods: I only look for medical advise from and under the supervision of my GP but getting more information is always of great benefit to get a handle on this.

Brianderunner

rom wrote: »

Thanks very much for your detailed reply.
You make very interesting points regarding change in stress level. I suppose the biggest change has been I used to get up much later in the morning when my wife was on maternity leave. I work flexy-time but now with my daughter going to creche I am getting up an hour or more earlier so I need to better concentrate moreon sleep I think. Recently I going to bed at 10 or 11 now during the week.

Would agree that most GPs are no better than a vet. Mine is a sports medicine doctor that a lot of international athletes go to and do feel safe with him. You don't need to justify a blood test to him.

You say that your bloods never gave you details but here you say they did ?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77956720&postcount=1462

No life/job/money worries thank god. The getting up earlier is the only thing that I can think of.

I would have to agree with you in respect to recovery. I don't have an A race for 6 months. I think I will be using HRv much more going forward and taking rest day when it tells me to. I did use restwise for a month but measure all them myself and generate a daily recovery score. I must say the HRv did warn me the day before this happened this time where resting HR did not. I did an easy 40 mins that day when I should have taken a days rest.

The only thing is that I used to get sick like this before I ran and was a lazy couch potato. My recovery time then was much longer for a sickness.

Re the blood tests. I have had them done in Nov too so I can see a trend now if there is one.
Thanks again.

Good researching there It was believed that that platelet reading was just a transient reading, ie a computer error or an accidental reading. My 4 tests afterwards showed the level to be back to normal despite me feeling worse.

I was getting less sleep too while running 50-55mpw, maybe 20-30 mins less than when i was doing 30-40mpw but it all counts. Sleep is massive for your recovery, some people get away with it, some don't. Add too much mileage, extra stress, lack of sleep and other life worries to the mix and your endocrine system just cant handle it.

You're plan for recovery seems fairly solid, fair play for going to the right doctor, explain all this to him. He will have seen it all before. Joe Conway listened to my full story and predicted in November that i would start to improve in March. Hey presto the last 2 weeks are the first time i've felt "normal" in the last 7 months, albeit still months away from running again. You're going at the perfect time to get it sorted before it happens.

Best of luck and let me know what the doc says

Clearlier

Just wanted to suggest that you could try obsessively washing your hands after you touch anything for a period after your next race. If it is your immune system that has been compromised by the race and taking a long time to recover then hand washing is the most effective way of reducing your chance of picking up a bug.

I have two young kids who happily pass on every bug that they pick up from creche. I also have dry skin from an acne drug I took a long time ago which causes irritation if I wash it too often. If I'm coming up to an A race though I live with the irritation and wash every time that I touch something suspect. Gets a bit Macbeth like at time but it has meant that I have avoided viruses that the rest of the family get.

Hope you get it sorted.

rom

Clearlier wrote: »

Just wanted to suggest that you could try obsessively washing your hands after you touch anything for a period after your next race. If it is your immune system that has been compromised by the race and taking a long time to recover then hand washing is the most effective way of reducing your chance of picking up a bug.

I have two young kids who happily pass on every bug that they pick up from creche. I also have dry skin from an acne drug I took a long time ago which causes irritation if I wash it too often. If I'm coming up to an A race though I live with the irritation and wash every time that I touch something suspect. Gets a bit Macbeth like at time but it has meant that I have avoided viruses that the rest of the family get.

Hope you get it sorted.

Something defo worth considering. I consider myself pretty good in the handwashing but at work up until recently to get into my office was finger-print access (don't ask :rolleyes: ) . Not the most hygienic and the story goes that they called the tech up ones to fix it and he spat on it and wiped it. Bathrooms at work ... seen a clearer gabbing a bit of paper towel to open the door on the way out. No chance he could do his job and actually clean the door ?

Was another cleaner who used to "clean" all our keyboards with a cloth that was also used to clean the bin in the kitchen before we went into work.

Maybe should think of getting a disinfectant spray for work keyboards.

I do use share laptops a lot also in my job so I should think some sort of spray may be a good idea.

Ceepo

rom wrote: »

I am very open to advise as I have been missing weeks because of this. How can you train hard but slow down a lot in your runs?

I would go very slow on most runs except for the two weekly sessions. My long run pace and all non sessions run for DCM was about 9min/mile when MP was like 7:34 for DCM 2012.

Impossible to say without seeing a more detailed look at your training
Had a quick look at your training log but not enough information on it to go on,

rom

Ceepo wrote: »

Impossible to say without seeing a more detailed look at your training
Had a quick look at your training log but not enough information on it to go on,

Week is normally since Jan
Mon 1hr strength and conditioning with trainer (don't judge)
Mon club 8M @ about 8min/mile
Tues session usually about and hour of 1k,1M, 2M's with 2M warmup and cooldown at about LT / 10k pace
Wed 4.5M easy
Thurs tempo at LT / 10k pace + 30sec
Fri 1hr strength and conditioning with trainer (don't judge)
Friday Easy 6 M
Sat LSR 90-120 mins at easy + maybe 30 mins at LT / 10k pace + 30sec at end
Sun Easy 4-6M

Avg mileage 40 which includes getting sick or forced rest 14 days with 3 days planned rest.

Ceepo

Thanks for the reply,
I Just a few question's and or comments, Hope you dont mind,
As far as i am aware you were looking for a coach in a previous post, i dont know if you are currently working with one, as i dont want to go against anything they might be saying or doing,

You are doing 2no sessions per week at LT plus some of your long run, this makes 3 LT sessions per week, There is no need to 3no sessions at LT,also what do you base your LT on ?,
Factor in Some type's of of S&D training can build Lactate as well.
In gerenal but not limited to over training can happen when,

Intensity of training to high when the total load of training is low, 25% or more above lactate 3mmol/l
Not keeping to loading and unloading cycle eg 2;1 3;1 wks build and recovery,
(training should be "progressive overload and recovery")
Group training, when you are trying to keep up with the lads around you, if you are running to hard to "stay up"

What is your Max HR ?
See questions in your quote,

rom wrote: »

Week is normally since Jan
Mon 1hr strength and conditioning with trainer (don't judge)
Mon club 8M @ about 8min/mile
What would your avg RH be for these Type of run's
Tues session usually about and hour of 1k,1M, 2M's with 2M warmup and cooldown at about LT / 10k pace
AVG HR when working hard and what it would be before you start next rep
Wed 4.5M easy
avg hr
Thurs tempo at LT / 10k pace + 30sec
avg hr
Fri 1hr strength and conditioning with trainer (don't judge)
Friday Easy 6 M
same question re HR and what pace is done at ?
Sat LSR 90-120 mins at easy + maybe 30 mins at LT / 10k pace + 30sec at end
avg hr for the easy part of this run and what does it go up to ?
Sun Easy 4-6M
Avg HR

Avg mileage 40 which includes getting sick or forced rest 14 days with 3 days planned rest. How much recovery time did you give yourself after been sick before doing any harder sessions wks.

Sorry if you are hot happy to give out all this info on here but if you want too PM me thats fine, happy to try help,

Ceepo

rom

- Thanks for the feedback. I have been thinking about this over the last few days and I used to get sick when not active too a lot and it was always when I went on holiday. It was a running joke at work. I started taking Nasonex for my sinus issue and it stopped so I am going back on that to see if it helps. I honestly don't think it is the training to blame.

Thanks for the reply,
I Just a few question's and or comments, Hope you dont mind,
- no probs

As far as i am aware you were looking for a coach in a previous post, i dont know if you are currently working with one, as i dont want to go against anything they might be saying or doing,

You are doing 2no sessions per week at LT plus some of your long run, this makes 3 LT sessions per week,
- sorry I was only thinking off the top of my head. If LT part of long run then one of the sessions would be at 10M instead near LT. So sorry that would be 2.

There is no need to 3no sessions at LT,also what do you base your LT on ?,
- Initially on a lab test but more recently race results. Will be going for a test again soon.

Factor in Some type's of of S&D training can build Lactate as well.
- What is S&D ?

In gerenal but not limited to over training can happen when,

Intensity of training to high when the total load of training is low, 25% or more above lactate 3mmol/l
Not keeping to loading and unloading cycle eg 2;1 3;1 wks build and recovery,
(training should be "progressive overload and recovery")
- Yes that pattern is followed

Group training, when you are trying to keep up with the lads around you, if you are running to hard to "stay up"
- I don't train much in a group for this reason as it is detrimental to my progress.

What is your Max HR ?
-193
See questions in your quote,

Sorry if you are hot happy to give out all this info on here but if you want too PM me thats fine, happy to try help,
- I really think it could be the post nasal drip causing me lots of the problem as I had one winter with no sickness when I was on the med but for some reason I stopped using it, maybe because it's so expensive at the time.

Ceepo

Should have been S&C not S&D sorry typo.

Seems like you're on top of things then, bud

Best if luck with it