Rent supplement denied

involved lemming

I've an issue I could do with sine advice on.

I was made redundant by HMV last month so I applied for rent supplement. I'm correctly living with my partner and a friend in rented accommodation. My partner is self-employed (music tuition is the evenings) and works around 13 hours a week, pulling in €280 or around €1150 per month. I was told today that my claim was turned down on the basis that my partner is self-employed. I can't find anywhere on the social welfare or citizen's information website that disqualifies anyone just for being self-employed. Can anyone shed some light on this?

wmpdd3

It may not be the fact that the partner is self employed, if either person is employed for 30 hrs or more, no rent supplement. So, 30 x €8.65 = €259 per week, as your partner has stated they earn more than this, that may be the issue.

Welfare's website is very vague but this is better:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

Employment and Rent Supplement
You will not qualify for Rent Supplement if you are in full-time employment (30 hours or more a week). (In the case of couples, if one of a couple is in full time employment, both are excluded from claiming Rent Supplement).

Since June 2007, if you have been accepted as being in need of accommodation under the Rental Accommodation Scheme by your local authority and you have been unemployed or not in full-time employment for at least 12 months before you start work you may be able to keep your Rent Supplement. You may also be entitled to retain Rent Supplement if you have been participating in a Community Employment Scheme or getting Back to Work Allowance or Back to Work Enterprise Allowance immediately before you start work.

However, you will be reassessed for Rent Supplement and some of your additional income including some of your income from employment will be taken into account. As a result of the reassessment you may or may not continue to qualify for Rent Supplement. If you do qualify for Rent Supplement you may get a different rate of Supplement.

Can you apply to go on the councils housing list? This may put you in a better position.

involved lemming

I don't think council housing is an option - I intend to be back working before the lease is up in this house (September) so I'm not looking to change house just to move again in a few months. As stated above, my partner is working less than half of 30 hours - the amount she earns has no bearing on their decision. I know this because I contacted social welfare and they told me so. I was told that my application was turned down as my partner is self-employed. I asked if this is the case even if she earns less than €300 p/w, and they said it was in the law and there was nothing they could do about it.

wmpdd3

Maybe print off the guidelines for rent allowance and ask them to show you where it says that?

Also try the citizens information office.

I really can't see any mention of a disqualification from rent supplement if an dependant adult is self employed.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Rent-Supplement.aspx

It only mentions income form self employment as being classed as additional income.

Additional household income is income from part-time employment or part-time self-employment, Family Income Supplement (FIS), Community Employment (CE), the Tús scheme, Back to Work Allowance, Back to Work Enterprise Allowance or a FÁS course. Maintenance is also assessed as additional household income (see below).

involved lemming

I absolutely agree - I can't see anywhere that says I shouldn't be eligible. Exactly how little must a self-employed person be earning? It's ridiculous. It's the lack of transparency that bugs me.

wmpdd3

Yes, rules seem to be anywhere but published on the website!

I do remember that if you are self employed they take an average of you previous years accounts as the income and add a percentage to allow for an increase in sales etc.

involved lemming

They do - we supplied them with our full accounts dating back 12 months. We have modest savings, but nowhere near enough to affect the outcome. Hmmm. I should receive a letter from them tomorrow. I'll see what the official reason is.

Slydice

Ok. So, I'm going to work out the numbers on the basis of you and your partner. I'm guessing that is what the department is doing if you told them you are a couple.

I'm also going to asume that you are on a jobseekers rate of €188

So, let's combine both incomes to see what your combined income is per week. 280 + 188 = €468

Now, let's get the yearly total: €468 x 52 (weeks in a year) = €24,336

Ok, on the citizens info, page it says this:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

The amount of Rent Supplement that is calculated will generally ensure that your income, after paying rent, does not fall below a minimum level. This level is the basic Supplementary Welfare Allowance rate for your circumstances (€186 for a single person and €310.80 for a couple) minus €30 (or €35 for a couple). You must always pay at least €30 towards your rent.

So, €310.80 per week is the minimum combined amount. That is €310.80 x 52 = €16,161.60 per year.

The difference between your combined income and the minimum is: €24,336 - €16,161.60 = 8,174.40

The difference per week is: 8,174.40 / 52 = €157.20.
The difference per month is: 8,174.40 / 12 = €681.20.

So, above the minimum income of €310.80, there is a combined amount of €157.20 per week or €681.20 per month.

Next, I make two assumptions:
- the department treats you and your partner as a couple.
- the department treats you two as a couple in shared accomodation because you live along with another friend.

Now, getting back to the Rent Supplement page, it lists "Maximum rent limits for each county". There is a column titled "Couple in shared accommodation". Under that column, the minimum rent limit is €175 per month (Longford). The maximum is €370 per month (Dublin - other local authorities).

Now, here's where I combine all the above and try to figure it out.
- The department thinks there is income of €681.20 per month
above their minimum
- The highest "Maximum rent per month" for a "Couple in shared accommodation" is €370 per month (Dublin - other local authorities)
- So, taking the rent from the income gives: €681.20 - €370 = €311.20 per month

So, my guess is, the department reckons there is still a combined income of at least €311.20 per month above their minimum.

involved lemming

......so what you're saying is that for a couple to share a room in a house, they need to be paying less than (for Fingal area) €165 each? That doesn't seem right.

mrsbyrne

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html
This page shows you the rent limits for each area. As you can see a couple looking to rent a bedroom in a shared house in Fingal can only apply for rent supplement if the rent is below €330 a month for that room. Not €330 each. €330 for the room for the month. Your contribution per week to the room will be €35. You cannot take a more expensive room and pay the balance yourself, that not how Rent supplement works.

involved lemming

Well that's poo.

Kristopherus

involved lemming wrote: »

Well that's poo.

Well, whether it is or not, you are not on the local authority's housing list, so you wont qualify for R.A. in any case.

mrsbyrne

involved lemming wrote: »

Well that's poo.

whats poo?