Wedges/ Grooves

Benicetomonty

Just wondering what wedges most Boardsies are currently employing. Right now, I've a couple of spin Milled Vokeys, which I'm fairly happy with but they're a couple of years old now and I was thinking of picking up a couple more before the season starts.

Even as a fairly low handicapper, I've never spun the ball that much so I'm anxious to continue to use wedges that have the u-shaped grooves for as long as I can. Obviously the pro's can't use them anymore, but most amateurs are ok until 2024. Recently looked it up and shops are now longer allowed to buy these wedges off the manufacturers, so I have to look at places that have stockpiled the likes of Titleist Vokeys or other pre-2011 models. The Titleists seem to be reasonably common and easy to find, but other brands are harder to locate. I read that the Callaway Jaws wedges seem to be especially aggressive when it comes to generating spin, can anyone confirm this for me?

Of course, the difference between box and V- shaped grooves might be negligible for me, as it is for most amateurs; are there many of you who have made the switch and noticed an obvious difference?

Other thoughts welcome!

For Paws

Using Mizuno MP T series Black 47,51,56,60
and happy enough with spin created.
That said, it all depends on the strike and a decent ball.
Best advice I got was to use a speciality tool to re-grooves all your irons.
The mild steel in the wedges react well to re-grooving .
These tools are easy to source over the 'net.
Be really careful when using these tools, they're really sharp.
Also could consider having your wedges sand blasted, as the surface between the grooves create just as much spin as the grooves do.

big_drive

I have a couple of cleveland 588 wedges. Only using them a month and find them excellent

f22

Cleveland 588's for me too, love them

shaneon77

+1 for the Cleveland 588. I love the consistent distances they give. Probably the best wedges I've used to date.

Russman

I was in Halpenny Golf in Carrickmines about two weeks ago and noticed at least one "old" groove Spin Milled Vokey 56 degree, new.

I have no connection with them at all, just happened to notice it as I hadn't seen one in ages, everything now seems to be about the SM4, which for me, doesn't spin worth a f--k !

FWIW currently I'm using the old Callaway X-Tour 56 degree and a Callaway Forged 52 degree.

L.O.F.T

Have a look on-line for a Taylormade RAC TP wedge with Y-Cutter grooves. Best bet is second hand and you will be blown away with the spin.http://www.golfbidder.co.uk/models/2641/Taylor_Made_Wedge_RAC_Black_TP.html
I bought one second hand about six months ago and regripped it and cant recommend them enough. The wedge out performs my vokey 56 and 60 wedges with the red milled symbol in terms of holding after one bounce. The only downside is having to change ball more frequenty as it tears the ball up.
The face has a little Y like this:

Benicetomonty

I've heard the Callaway Jaws wedges make mincemeat of the balls as well, so that might be a concern! I like the look of those Clevelands, even if they are v grooved:

Iif I were to get the conforming grooves, I think the Spinner shafts might be needed to fill the void!

Kace

For Paws wrote: »

Using Mizuno MP T series Black 47,51,56,60
and happy enough with spin created.
That said, it all depends on the strike and a decent ball.
Best advice I got was to use a speciality tool to re-grooves all your irons.
The mild steel in the wedges react well to re-grooving .
These tools are easy to source over the 'net.
Be really careful when using these tools, they're really sharp.
Also could consider having your wedges sand blasted, as the surface between the grooves create just as much spin as the grooves do.

+1 - I just cut my own grooves.

Russman

Kace wrote: »

+1 - I just cut my own grooves.

Are they still legal after that's done ?
Genuine question.

For Paws

Russman wrote: »

Are they still legal after that's done ?
Genuine question.

That's the only drawback to re-grooving. It's easy to fcuk it up & end up with non-conforming grooves and / or fewer fingers than you started with.
It has to be done firmly but gently, as the tool is sharp enough to really get into the steel. Just draw the tool through each groove as if you were trying to clean the groove, rather than cut it.

As I mentioned before sand blasting works just as well (if you have access to a sand blaster) as it re-roughens the milled face as well as renewing the grooves (as well as removing any rust spotting)

Regular use of a brass wire brush will keep most club faces in good order.
Don't use a steel wire brush, it will tear lumps out of the mild steel they make club heads (especially wedges) from.

BigChap1759

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Just wondering what wedges most Boardsies are currently employing. Right now, I've a couple of spin Milled Vokeys, which I'm fairly happy with but they're a couple of years old now and I was thinking of picking up a couple more before the season starts.

Even as a fairly low handicapper, I've never spun the ball that much so I'm anxious to continue to use wedges that have the u-shaped grooves for as long as I can. Obviously the pro's can't use them anymore, but most amateurs are ok until 2024. Recently looked it up and shops are now longer allowed to buy these wedges off the manufacturers, so I have to look at places that have stockpiled the likes of Titleist Vokeys or other pre-2011 models. The Titleists seem to be reasonably common and easy to find, but other brands are harder to locate. I read that the Callaway Jaws wedges seem to be especially aggressive when it comes to generating spin, can anyone confirm this for me?

Of course, the difference between box and V- shaped grooves might be negligible for me, as it is for most amateurs; are there many of you who have made the switch and noticed an obvious difference?

Other thoughts welcome!

I'm sure we covered this recently enough but grooves don't create spin - this is a myth. The reason for the groove change was to stop pros getting so much spin out of the rough - the grooves channel away the grass allowing a cleaner contact and thus more spin

For Paws

BigChap1759 wrote: »

I'm sure we covered this recently enough but grooves don't create spin - this is a myth. The reason for the groove change was to stop pros getting so much spin out of the rough - the grooves channel away the grass allowing a cleaner contact and thus more spin

Correctomundo.

The grooves act like treads on a tyre, channeling grass crushed by 3000 pounds of force away, but also increasing the revolutions (spin).
A ball leaving a Driver (barely grooved) face is spinning at about 3500 rpm.
A ball leaving a Wedge face is spinning at 6000 rpm.
(Yes I know there are differences in strike angle at play here also, but the main difference is accounted for by the grooves 'grabbing' the ball as it decompresses and starts sliding up the face.)

John Divney

I have a 50 degree Wilson FG Tour CNC milled, Vokey (red spin milled) and Mizuno MP R lob wedge.

Surprisingly the Wilson is immese for long low trjectory shots played fast, dart like then a great bounce and stop. there are good deals on them, got mine new for 60, easily worth it.

Wedges are sio good now you can't really separate the top brands.

I'd concentrate more on the bounce or grind and type of shot you play, or want to play, how you take a divot, the course tyype you play on, and match the wedge up with that, the spin will be similar on most of the wedges imo.

BigChap1759

For Paws wrote: »

Correctomundo.

The grooves act like treads on a tyre, channeling grass crushed by 3000 pounds of force away, but also increasing the revolutions (spin).
A ball leaving a Driver (barely grooved) face is spinning at about 3500 rpm.
A ball leaving a Wedge face is spinning at 6000 rpm.
(Yes I know there are differences in strike angle at play here also, but the main difference is accounted for by the grooves 'grabbing' the ball as it decompresses and starts sliding up the face.)

The ball is not rolling up a driver face - tested have shown that a grooveless wedge spins the most - the spin is caused by the friction against the clubface as the ball rolls up it.

TRS30

I use old style Vokey Spin Mill wedges, cleaned every couple of weeks with a groove sharpener, Pro V1x and get plenty of spin. Conditions and quality of strike will also have an impact.

For Paws

BigChap1759 wrote: »

The ball is not rolling up a driver face - tested have shown that a grooveless wedge spins the most - the spin is caused by the friction against the clubface as the ball rolls up it.

Interesting ++

Do you have a source handy ?. I'd love to read up on it. Is it mentioned in Cochran & Stobbs ?. Ta

BigChap1759

Apologies, this was copied and pasted from another blog but has some good sources of info on the subject:

"
You want science and physics? How about an independent study done by Dave Tutelman, owner and president of Tutelman Research, and formerly of Bell Labs? That can be found here: http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swing2.php?ref= Scroll down to the part titled SPIN in bold. And more importantly, scroll to the part that begins with Grooves in large type.
Another thing to read is from Bill Gobush, whom happens to be a researcher at Titleist. It’s Bill Gobush, “Spin and the Inner Workings of a Golf Ball”. The article is in “Golf The Scientific Way”, a collection of articles edited by Alastair Cochran and published by the Aston Publishing Group in the early 1990s. Gobush is a researcher at Titleist, and is one of the worlds experts in measuring and modeling golf ball behavior.
The article looks at what happens to the ball at impact, and how that imparts spin to the ball. It shows how the design of the core of the ball can affect how much spin results from impact.
You wanted research to back the data up, those are two of the foremost researchers on the planet regarding golf, especially the relationship between the ball and the clubface at impact."

http://probablegolfinstruction.com/golf-club-grooves-backspin.htm

For Paws

BigChap1759 wrote: »

The ball is not rolling up a driver face - tested have shown that a grooveless wedge spins the most - the spin is caused by the friction against the clubface as the ball rolls up it.

Did I state that the ball rolls 'up a driver face' ?

by the grooves 'grabbing' the ball as it decompresses and starts sliding up the face.) refers to the wedge.
See your quoted source http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swing2.php?ref=

tested have shown that a grooveless wedge spins the most
Tutelman states in this article
'Grooves do nothing for spin if there is clean, dry contact between the clubhead and the ball'

So to state unequivocally that grooveless wedges spin the ball more than grooved wedges is erroneous. Only in the conditions, if there is clean, dry contact is this true.

Having said that I take your general point.

Thanks for the links. I find this sort of stuff v.interesting.

BigChap1759

Yes absolutely I agree with what you say about conditions - the feeling is that a grooveless wedge will not perform well out of the rough or in the wet due to lack of friction with the club face.

For Paws

So, it's as I always suspected ....

Grooveless irons & golf in Sunshiney Portugal / Spain / Florida = Happiness

L.O.F.T

For Paws wrote: »

golf = Happiness

Correction..