High Molybdenum

PatQfarmer

Got soil tests back. Teagasc say they are indicative of requiring lime at 2tons/acre, but due to High Molybdenum, none need be applied.
I have a buttercup issue in one field, so presume it is low in lime.
I have to leave licks in the fields for the cattle most years, as they get very loose, presumably as the Molybdenum and Lime "lock-in" the Copper?
Would ye spread a bit on the buttercup field?
Any other solution to non-availability of Copper?
Thanks in advance.

rancher

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Got soil tests back. Teagasc say they are indicative of requiring lime at 2tons/acre, but due to High Molybdenum, none need be applied.
I have a buttercup issue in one field, so presume it is low in lime.
I have to leave licks in the fields for the cattle most years, as they get very loose, presumably as the Molybdenum and Lime "lock-in" the Copper?
Would ye spread a bit on the buttercup field?
Any other solution to non-availability of Copper?
Thanks in advance.

The Molybdenum stops the cattle absorbing copper so I'd say they probably wouldn't be able to get it from the blocks either, but you can get copper boluses to put down their neck which would give them copper, however if you suspect copper deficiency, you should get a blood test done to be sure as you can cause copper poisoning too.
Buttercups could be due to low fertility, if you have good fertility and good thick grass, buttercups won't compete

bob charles

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Got soil tests back. Teagasc say they are indicative of requiring lime at 2tons/acre, but due to High Molybdenum, none need be applied.
I have a buttercup issue in one field, so presume it is low in lime.
I have to leave licks in the fields for the cattle most years, as they get very loose, presumably as the Molybdenum and Lime "lock-in" the Copper?
Would ye spread a bit on the buttercup field?
Any other solution to non-availability of Copper?
Thanks in advance.

Whats your Ph and K figures? and did you get a Ca and Mg reading?

PatQfarmer

bob charles wrote: »

Whats your Ph and K figures? and did you get a Ca and Mg reading?

Thanks Bob
Soil index 2. Recommended P 16.55KG/HA, Recommended K 75kg/HA
Recommended Lime 1ton/HA

bob charles

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Thanks Bob
Soil index 2. Recommended P 16.55KG/HA, Recommended K 75kg/HA
Recommended Lime 1ton/HA

Whats the Ph reading and the exact K reading. it would be expressed in mg/l. Buttercups thrive in places with low Ph. Ph isnt exclusively linked to just calcium(lime). I would be advocating a more indepth soil test before making your next move showing levels for Calcium and Magnesium. If I were a betting man I would think an application of K may raise your Ph.

Manoffeeling

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Thanks Bob
Soil index 2. Recommended P 16.55KG/HA, Recommended K 75kg/HA
Recommended Lime 1ton/HA

1 ton per hec is nothing.

blue5000

Hi Pat, we have high Mo here too and last year got a good response to sheep bolus (6 grams I think) in suckler calves. Will be using them again this year. How low is the pH?

Muckit

Perhaps someone could answer me this.

We have a small block that would be a high mol area. a lot of buttercups, so how do I lower the PH if lime is going to lock up copper?? Or do I spread anyway and use copper injections???

freedominacup

Does high molybdenum affect selenium availability also?

One thing I'm certain of Pat, ignore any hard sell on minerals. Standard mineral specs in the indicated quantities are usually plenty. We did the whole soil, blood, milk(I think) tests in the nineties. Got bespoke minerals made to our own spec based on results. Protected this, chelated that and higher rates of X and Y, usually X and Y were the most expensive ingredients in the mix:rolleyes:, and I can't think of anything I spent money on in farming that gave a poorer return. Off the shelf and enough of it has done the trick since.

Farmer Pudsey

Muckit wrote: »

Perhaps someone could answer me this.

We have a small block that would be a high mol area. a lot of buttercups, so how do I lower the PH if lime is going to lock up copper?? Or do I spread anyway and use copper injections???

handy way to get copper into to cattle with out having to gather or inject. Buy bluestone/copper sulphate. Get molasses and dissolve copper in hot water, 1 heaped t-spoon/4 cattle mix copper mixture and mollasses put into troughs (blue barrells cut lenght ways ideal) and feed one a week. Copper injections last about one month bollus cost a an arm and leg and are hard on man and beast.

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

handy way to get copper into to cattle with out having to gather or inject. Buy bluestone/copper sulphate. Get molasses and dissolve copper in hot water, 1 heaped t-spoon/4 cattle mix copper mixture and mollasses put into troughs (blue barrells cut lenght ways ideal) and feed one a week. Copper injections last about one month bollus cost a an arm and leg and are hard on man and beast.

If you have high Molybdenum soil, it affects the ability of the animal to utilise copper, thats why it has to be injected or bolused into them, I've lived with high mol soil for years and tried all the remedies in cluding yours and still had to go back to bolus/injection. I use a bolus in the sheep now that lasts 6mths and it's the most reliable treatment

tabby aspreme

Have high molybdenum here also and use selenium bolus , I have never been brave enough to try a copper bolus is there a specific one for sheep or do you use a calf bolus on the sheep

rancher

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Have high molybdenum here also and use selenium bolus , I have never been brave enough to try a copper bolus is there a specific one for sheep or do you use a calf bolus on the sheep

I use the animax boluses specifically for sheep even on texels, it doesn't work well in their dosing gun unless you put in one of their other boluses as well, but they have a selenium and cobalt one as well, they all work for six mths, I give the ewes three different boluses in the gun at the one time , three weeks before lambing and thats all for the year, as the six mths covers the lamb while he's sucking and then mating, only 1% barren in the ewes this year so smething is working and definitely have lively lambs

costs about 1.60 a sheep altogether for the three boluses, but I think it's worth it

PatQfarmer

Thanks for the responses guys! Good to see it's not just my place:)

Bob, P was 3.71-3.84mg/l, K was40-77mg/l, depending on field.
No reading for other minerals.

I'll be addressing that with compound fert.
Might spread a small bit of Granlime on one of the fields.

From the rest of the comments, bolus or injection seems to be the way.
Maybe the licks I've been using are not getting to all the stock.
More expense, but no good if they're not thriving...

PatQfarmer

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi Pat, we have high Mo here too and last year got a good response to sheep bolus (6 grams I think) in suckler calves. Will be using them again this year. How low is the pH?

pH 5.80-6.3
Thanks for the tip re sheep bolus. Will try that in smaller stock, I think.

blue5000

PatQfarmer wrote: »

pH 5.80-6.3
Thanks for the tip re sheep bolus. Will try that in smaller stock, I think.

They aren't too expensive, 55e for a 100 boluses last yr.

rancher

PatQfarmer wrote: »

pH 5.80-6.3
Thanks for the tip re sheep bolus. Will try that in smaller stock, I think.

I always thought that 6.2/ 6,3 was high enough ph on my land to grow grass without agravating the copper deficency. so you could go a bit on the 5.8 fields, Grolime is dear but works very quick and is handy. I saw it raising ph here in three months last year

fatoftheland

pure copper deficiency is very rare. the brown tinge on cattles coats is molybdenum (Mo) toxicity. to deal with this Mo isnt just load in copper sulfate and hope for the best. copper sulfate binds to Mo to deactivate it. protected copper is what the animal can use in these cases. in wet years Mo uptake by plants is higher thus increasing copper sulfate requirements. blood samples are not accurate for Cu levels in animals. liver biopsy is the definative way. Cu to Mo ratio should be between 2 to 1 and 4 to 1. we have high Mo at home but also high Iron which also acts like Mo to make thing worse.