REPS AEOS BTAP STAP

airneal

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Standing by to be corrected on this, but as far as I'm aware there won't be any more AEOS or REPS type environmental schemes. As, under new SFP you will be required to keep land in Good Agricultural and Environmental Condition.

In effect, if there were to be a REPS/AEOS scheme running along side that, you would be getting paid on the double. That won't happen.

I was at a AEOS meeting in Castlebar in November 2012. One of the Dept officials hinted that there was going to be a new scheme in 2014, agri-environmental that is, she said it would be somewhere between AEOS and REPS in significance! The greening part of the SF payment will cover the GAEC. There will be an additional agri-environmental scheme alongside that. Basically the greening payment will be like an additional payment on top of the flat rate payment, similar to cross compliance regulations. Its my understanding there will be future agri-environmental schemes.

If you just look at how they (Dept) are waisting money now, with poxy sheep technology and adoption programme and the beef and so on. Basically you get 1000 euro/year, teagasc will take between 275-350 euro of that payment for facilitating you. You'll spend another 100-150 on diesel or petrol attending worthless farm walks. By the time you pick two other options like reseeding or whatever, you'll be lucky to be not out of pocket!!

Agri-environmental schemes will always be in it. As there will always be a higher payment to farmers to maintain the environment beyond GAEC. They're launching a new scheme in the North now soon.

Conmaicne Mara

I'll have to do some more looking into this for myself. A new environmental scheme would certainly be welcomed by a lot of farmers. I had heard from someone in the know last year there was rumour of a new scheme, but since then heard that new schemes were off the cards, but will check again.

The STAP was never a grant, it's a discussion group. I've heard due to the numbers involved the payment is to be in the region of €800. Speaking for myself, I'm not in it for the cheque in the post. I had a lot of the options in mind for doing myself before this, so it will be good to see how others set about them, to give me extra ideas.

airneal

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I'll have to do some more looking into this for myself. A new environmental scheme would certainly be welcomed by a lot of farmers. I had heard from someone in the know last year there was rumour of a new scheme, but since then heard that new schemes were off the cards, but will check again.

The STAP was never a grant, it's a discussion group. I've heard due to the numbers involved the payment is to be in the region of €800. Speaking for myself, I'm not in it for the cheque in the post. I had a lot of the options in mind for doing myself before this, so it will be good to see how others set about them, to give me extra ideas.

Yep, well there definitely will be a new agri-environment scheme. You can take that as for sure!! The STAP great for lads starting off, or for lads updating, but really its only a thank you payment to teagasc. A sort of keep the lads tied over effort from the Dept. Really no benefits to the average farmer. Everone at this stage knows about clover, reseeding etc

reilig

airneal wrote: »

If you just look at how they (Dept) are waisting money now, with poxy sheep technology and adoption programme and the beef and so on. Basically you get 1000 euro/year, teagasc will take between 275-350 euro of that payment for facilitating you. You'll spend another 100-150 on diesel or petrol attending worthless farm walks. By the time you pick two other options like reseeding or whatever, you'll be lucky to be not out of pocket!!

Agri-environmental schemes will always be in it. As there will always be a higher payment to farmers to maintain the environment beyond GAEC. They're launching a new scheme in the North now soon.

From doing BTAP for one year, I can tell you that it is far more valuable to Farmers than any poxy AEOS Scheme. In your description above, you have made the classic description of farmers who shouldn't be in BTAP at all and are only taking up the space of someone who wants to do it. These guys are in BTAP for the €1000 only. They are complaining about things like Teagasc charges and petrol costs etc.

In reality the financial gain from BTAP (and I'm sure STAP will be the same) is not the €925 payment for it. This payment is only to cover your expenses for going to the meetings. The actual financial gain is from implementing the measures of BTAP. When you implement these measures such as 5 star breeding, paddock systems, reseeding etc, you will have a much better financial return from the stock that you sell as well as reducing your costs. Both lead to long term sustainable profit for farmers. Schemes like AEOS are only for a few years and they often cost more to be in than you get in payment for them. Most often they don't lead to any extra profit.

I'm a firm believer that schemes like BTAP and STAP are there for the long hall. They have potential to deliver increased profits and reduced costs for everyone by only doing simple things which cost little or nothing extra. They are definitely not a waste of money!!

airneal

I don't mean to be ignorant or any thing like that. But this knowledge has been in the domain for quite a number of years now. I mean if you look at teagasc normal discussion groups, these things are discussed in every county up and down the land since 2008! If you pick up the farmers J, same stuff repeated annually, biannually!! Same stuff, different date! Sure, you'll get an idea from another farmer, but most farmers I have to say would be in the know now. Even the lads going to do the Certs etc. They're picking up all the information.

What I'm hearing is that a lot of farmers are pulling the plug on the programme. Its not worthwhile, cus they're already doing it or know about it! Nothing new with these programmes! Just a PR and marketing stunt for the aforementioned organisation!!

reilig

airneal wrote: »

I don't mean to be ignorant or any thing like that. But this knowledge has been in the domain for quite a number of years now. I mean if you look at teagasc normal discussion groups, these things are discussed in every county up and down the land since 2008! If you pick up the farmers J, same stuff repeated annually, biannually!! Same stuff, different date! Sure, you'll get an idea from another farmer, but most farmers I have to say would be in the know now. Even the lads going to do the Certs etc. They're picking up all the information.

What I'm hearing is that a lot of farmers are pulling the plug on the programme. Its not worthwhile, cus they're already doing it or know about it! Nothing new with these programmes! Just a PR and marketing stunt for the aforementioned organisation!!

Any links to reports of farmers pulling the plug?

Certainly the feedback on here was that anyone who attended BTAP learned a lot of new stuff. Yes they may have read about it in the IFJ, but the simple fact is that they didn't implement it. When they had to implement it to get the BTAP payment, they found that it actually yielded extra money.

Discussion groups are credited with bringing Dairying to the level that it has come to in Ireland in the last 5 years.

The only complaints that I have heard about BTAP are of the other members as opposed to the person or organisation hosting the meeting.

Our planner recons that there are huge numbers of farmers seeking to join BTAP this year after hearing positive results from last year.

Why would the STAP be so over subscribed if it was just doing what everyone already knows?

The payment for these discussion groups were never promoted as payments for attending the group. They are intended on covering expenses only. If people can't use the information that they are picking up at the discussion groups to make better farms out of what they have, then its not likely that REPS or AEOS or any other Environmental scheme will have a long term benefit to them either!

freedominacup

airneal wrote: »

I don't mean to be ignorant or any thing like that. But this knowledge has been in the domain for quite a number of years now. I mean if you look at teagasc normal discussion groups, these things are discussed in every county up and down the land since 2008! If you pick up the farmers J, same stuff repeated annually, biannually!! Same stuff, different date! Sure, you'll get an idea from another farmer, but most farmers I have to say would be in the know now. Even the lads going to do the Certs etc. They're picking up all the information.

What I'm hearing is that a lot of farmers are pulling the plug on the programme. Its not worthwhile, cus they're already doing it or know about it! Nothing new with these programmes! Just a PR and marketing stunt for the aforementioned organisation!!

I've been involved in discussion groups for 20 years. The worst meeting I was ever at I learned something new and good meetings are brilliant. It's a discussion group it involves participation. It is not about some Teagasc or other consultant telling you stuff. There's no way they're already doing it or know about it because if they are you are saying that every one in these groups is farming exactly the same way and between them they can't come up with a single new idea or approach to any problem, or production method. They must be all either S**T hot or just S**T I dunno which.

Farmer Pudsey

airneal wrote: »

I don't mean to be ignorant or any thing like that. But this knowledge has been in the domain for quite a number of years now. I mean if you look at teagasc normal discussion groups, these things are discussed in every county up and down the land since 2008! If you pick up the farmers J, same stuff repeated annually, biannually!! Same stuff, different date! Sure, you'll get an idea from another farmer, but most farmers I have to say would be in the know now. Even the lads going to do the Certs etc. They're picking up all the information.

What I'm hearing is that a lot of farmers are pulling the plug on the programme. Its not worthwhile, cus they're already doing it or know about it! Nothing new with these programmes! Just a PR and marketing stunt for the aforementioned organisation!!

I would have to disagree. Most of the lads giving up are the lads that taught that they would get 6-700 eyro to yurn up at five meetings. They were trying to pick the tasks that cost them least not looking at what task they would pick next year. Most lads that are intrested will be in it this year as well.

It is one thing to know the theory it is another to implement it. The main thing I saw in the discussion is that if most farmers spend 20-30 euro/acre spraying weeds and shook a bit more fertlizer they would improve there grass O/P by 30-50%. Spraying was the biggest thing. On some of the older swards the clover content serves no purpose.

However this digresses from the thread.

airneal

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I would have to disagree. Most of the lads giving up are the lads that taught that they would get 6-700 eyro to yurn up at five meetings. They were trying to pick the tasks that cost them least not looking at what task they would pick next year. Most lads that are intrested will be in it this year as well.

It is one thing to know the theory it is another to implement it. The main thing I saw in the discussion is that if most farmers spend 20-30 euro/acre spraying weeds and shook a bit more fertlizer they would improve there grass O/P by 30-50%. Spraying was the biggest thing. On some of the older swards the clover content serves no purpose.

However this digresses from the thread.

With respect, thats a fairly loose statement regarding fertiliser. The law of Diminishing Returns comes to mind!! As for spraying, I can't understand why this new information or even why one could not impliment it! Clover will always serve a purpose, however the law of diminishing returns kicks in here too, naturally.

New swards, young shoots, high nitrogen, sweet protein!!

I agree, we'll get back to the orginal debate!!:)

airneal

I want to make one very very important point. I won't sideline again off the current debate.

Another important point that farmers forget and don't grasp for one second is this. Teagasc has research centres in Grange, Oak Park, Moorepark etc.

Just because an advisor tells you ''our results show that by increasing blah blah blah you'll increase productivity by blah blah blah!

The sites where these results are generated, are as far removed from the normal as one could expect. Different approaches will work in each and every farm, depending soil type, stocking rate, local climate, fertiliser type, etc Grass is growing well in Cork this past month, only staring to grow in Clare, Tipp and will likely only start to get going in Donegal end of March.

You cannot apply half the stuff that you hear/ read about. The information is as far removed from reality than attempting to farm like a rancher up in siberia!!

whelan1

airneal wrote: »

I want to make one very very important point. I won't sideline again off the current debate.

Another important point that farmers forget and don't grasp for one second is this. Teagasc has research centres in Grange, Oak Park, Moorepark etc.

Just because an advisor tells you ''our results show that by increasing blah blah blah you'll increase productivity by blah blah blah!

The sites where these results are generated, are as far removed from the normal as one could expect. Different approaches will work in each and every farm, depending soil type, stocking rate, local climate, fertiliser type, etc Grass is growing well in Cork this past month, only staring to grow in Clare, Tipp and will likely only start to get going in Donegal end of March.

You cannot apply half the stuff that you hear/ read about. The information is as far removed from reality than attempting to farm like a rancher up in siberia!!

yes but you miss the very important point, these people teagasc, ifj are giving advice YOU donot have to listen to it or implement , the buck lands with the farmer themselves

airneal

whelan1 wrote: »

yes but you miss the very important point, these people teagasc, ifj are giving advice YOU donot have to listen to it or implement , the buck lands with the farmer themselves

Yes, thats exactly my overall point, but why would you listen to advice where you know that it won't work!! I think farmers at this stage of the game know what works for them. Do you remember the trailing shoe technology they lauched a couple of years ago. They were show casing down in athenry. There was a 4m boom on them, 3m folded!!! Can you imagine that sqeezing into a field around anywhere, unless your down in the expanses of the south!!

Does't add up, and people are coping on to their antics.

whelan1

airneal wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly my overall point, but why would you listen to advice where you know that it won't work!! I think farmers at this stage of the game know what works for them. Do you remember the trailing shoe technology they lauched a couple of years ago. They were show casing down in athenry. There was a 4m boom on them, 3m folded!!! Can you imagine that sqeezing into a field around anywhere, unless your down in the expanses of the south!!

Does't add up, and people are coping on to their antics.

this is going off the original topic, but in our group you have liquid milk farmers and spring calvers , people with heavy land and dry land, no advisor can give advice to suit everyone.... look at the derrypatrick herd a couple of years ago, unreal calf mortality, you live and learn... the main thing i get out of my group meeting is seeing how other people do things , then i think will this work for me

Farmer Pudsey

airneal wrote: »

With respect, thats a fairly loose statement regarding fertiliser. The law of Diminishing Returns comes to mind!! As for spraying, I can't understand why this new information or even why one could not impliment it! Clover will always serve a purpose, however the law of diminishing returns kicks in here too, naturally.

New swards, young shoots, high nitrogen, sweet protein!!

I agree, we'll get back to the orginal debate!!:)

airneal wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly my overall point, but why would you listen to advice where you know that it won't work!! I think farmers at this stage of the game know what works for them. Do you remember the trailing shoe technology they lauched a couple of years ago. They were show casing down in athenry. There was a 4m boom on them, 3m folded!!! Can you imagine that sqeezing into a field around anywhere, unless your down in the expanses of the south!!

Does't add up, and people are coping on to their antics.

Airneal I think that you forget that loads of farmers especially in the drystock industry are often of an older generation. Now most are farming grass and systems that were inplace 30-40 years ago. Very few of these read or are aware of new technology or maybe are afraid of it..

For instance next year why not make it mandatory that all farmers in the STAP have to soil test next winter. This could be a game changer it is not until they see what can be achieved that they relise the benifits.

Some of teagasc stuff annoys me as well however some is of benifit as well. Maybe it need farmers like you involved in discussion groups to change the mindset as well,

Farmer Pudsey

whelan1 wrote: »

on now, they where finding it very hard to get people out sio i assume any type of farmer would do:D

They might even accept a few women farmers as opposed to farmerettes:D

reilig

The better farm programme is a far better indicator of where Irish farmers should be heading. Every county has one. In leitrim, for example, there is one better farm which is operating on heavy land with long winters. It is similar to 90% of farms in the county. It is being farmed at a profit. It is introducing new measures and is a good guideline to farmers.

Research farms are just for that - Research. they don't serve much of a purpose for current farmers - maybe they will for future ones. They are not farmed to make a profit - just to demonstrate what can be done if you pump enough money into them.

The whole BTAP discussion group is based on the policies and practices of the Better Farms which are proven!

airneal wrote: »

I want to make one very very important point. I won't sideline again off the current debate.

Another important point that farmers forget and don't grasp for one second is this. Teagasc has research centres in Grange, Oak Park, Moorepark etc.

Just because an advisor tells you ''our results show that by increasing blah blah blah you'll increase productivity by blah blah blah!

The sites where these results are generated, are as far removed from the normal as one could expect. Different approaches will work in each and every farm, depending soil type, stocking rate, local climate, fertiliser type, etc Grass is growing well in Cork this past month, only staring to grow in Clare, Tipp and will likely only start to get going in Donegal end of March.

You cannot apply half the stuff that you hear/ read about. The information is as far removed from reality than attempting to farm like a rancher up in siberia!!

airneal

reilig wrote: »

The better farm programme is a far better indicator of where Irish farmers should be heading. Every county has one. In leitrim, for example, there is one better farm which is operating on heavy land with long winters. It is similar to 90% of farms in the county. It is being farmed at a profit. It is introducing new measures and is a good guideline to farmers.

Research farms are just for that - Research. they don't serve much of a purpose for current farmers - maybe they will for future ones. They are not farmed to make a profit - just to demonstrate what can be done if you pump enough money into them.

The whole BTAP discussion group is based on the policies and practices of the Better Farms which are proven!

You've hit a very important point there. Better farms have been supposedly proven. Better farms have been proven on the back of Profit Monitors, which to be honest, only pluck the mean average costs and indices from fresh air. Did you ever do a profit monitor with an adviser? What figures did you/they use for fixed/ variable costs???!! Plucked from the air!!! Fact!! Then they tell you your either up or down!! Does any farmer give there electricity bill to the adviser to work out for the year? Does every farmer honestly tell the adviser what they spread in the year!! Come on!!

reilig

airneal wrote: »

You've hit a very important point there. Better farms have been supposedly proven. Better farms have been proven on the back of Profit Monitors, which to be honest, only pluck the mean average costs and indices from fresh air. Did you ever do a profit monitor with an adviser? What figures did you/they use for fixed/ variable costs???!! Plucked from the air!!! Fact!! Then they tell you your either up or down!! Does any farmer give there electricity bill to the adviser to work out for the year? Does every farmer honestly tell the adviser what they spread in the year!! Come on!!

I must be some fool so. :eek:

I gave all of my account figures to my planner for the profit monitor and he did it up producing accurate figures.

What would be the point in doing a profit monitir if I wasn't going to give him the proper figures for it?????

You should really go and visit one of the Better Farm walks before you say too much about them. Go and forget about expenses and depreciation etc.
Have a look at what they are doing and how they are doing it. Have a look at what they are producing and ask them what they are getting for it.

Everyone has loans to pay off that they can't do an awful lot about. Everyone has ESB bills, contractor bills, depreciation, repair bills etc. Most of these have no major impact on how we farm and we can only control them to a point.

I took the following things from my visit to a better farm:

- weinlings can be produced cheaper than I do it without me investing any money at all.
- I'm feeding too much meal to get teh resulta that I'm getting.
- I can produce cheaper grass and produce it earlier.
- I can have healthier animals at no extra cost and save money on vet bills.
- I can produce heavier weinlings at no extra cost.

Combined all of these mean more money for me. Even if I don't reduce my fixed costs, I'll still have more money in my pocket by using the tips, tricks and measures that I learned at the Better Farm walk which was part of my BTAP discussion group.

Farmer Pudsey

Take reseeding the reason a lot of farmers are against it is the cost.

Jaysus I have to spray, plough , level, roll till, then plant and spray again.

However there care cheaper alternatives you will not get a lawn but you will have reseeded productive ground. There are modern spring loaded disc harrows that after spraying will till most land to a suitable level. With an electric spinner on it all you would have to do is roll.

But sure this would not work in my place??

In a discussion group the pro and cons, advantages and disadvantages can be seen straight away. After that you can see if it will apply to your ground.

just do it

airneal wrote: »

Yep, well there definitely will be a new agri-environment scheme. You can take that as for sure!! The STAP great for lads starting off, or for lads updating, but really its only a thank you payment to teagasc. A sort of keep the lads tied over effort from the Dept. Really no benefits to the average farmer. Everone at this stage knows about clover, reseeding etc

The day you think you know it all is the day you stop learning

Conmaicne Mara

All I can say is I am looking forward to STAP. I think it will be of value to me, to use that over used phrase, moving forward. Might be proven wrong, but if I don't go, I won't know.

just do it

I'll be visiting one of the lads in my discussion group to see some drainage he's done. We've already has a visit on the farm but what I want to see is on an out farm. Without the BTAP I wouldn't get to see it. There's an intangible benefit. May have been written about in the journal but you can't beat seeing it first hand and talking to the farmer first hand.

1chippy

airneal wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly my overall point, but why would you listen to advice where you know that it won't work!! I think farmers at this stage of the game know what works for them. Do you remember the trailing shoe technology they lauched a couple of years ago. They were show casing down in athenry. There was a 4m boom on them, 3m folded!!! Can you imagine that sqeezing into a field around anywhere, unless your down in the expanses of the south!!

Does't add up, and people are coping on to their antics.

Btap is one of the best decisions i ever made around here. i read the journal every week, i read through as much information i can with regards to every aspect of farming and some of the best info i get is between here and the btap. we would have one of the best bits of ground within our group yet there are lads in our group who work very difficult land and they have learnt the best possible methods available to them but still get a lot of inspiration and knowledge within the group to better these methods.
Take reseeding for instance who in reality will go out and try every possable method, whereas within in the group lads may have tried different methods and can share this info comfortably.
You slated the profit monitor . The profit monitor was the best kick in the arse i ever got.
I often this or that wont work on my ground but regularly i'm proved wrong and gradualy (hopefully) becoming better at my job.

Conmaicne Mara

I must look up the options again, but profit monitor and health plan are two option high on my own list.

I am in a separate group which would qualify me for one of the options and would cost me absolutely nothing, but I will not use it because I think I'll learn more doing other things.

paddysdream

Getting back to the original point of the thread,I cannot see a new Reps Aeos type scheme coming back anytime soon.If it does it will have to be a lot more stringent than the reps schemes as the proposed greening measures will cover 90% plus of what was required under the reps schemes.
Anyone who thinks the eu will allow an agri envoirnmental scheme which does not produce tangible results and compels us to do a lot over and above Gaec and or greening is deluding themselves.
In all honesty anyone who joined reps 1 could draw most of the money without having to spend even 10% in most cases.Even in Reps 4 with careful selection of the options it was possible to do a lot without spending a fortune.
These schemes became top ups esp. for those on smaller SFP and their closure is part of the reason there is such a scramble for part of the new SFP pie.
Any new scheme I believe, will entail a substantial spend on the farmers part and be designed to give a noticable return re. green envioro side of things.

JohnBoy

airneal wrote: »

I want to make one very very important point. I won't sideline again off the current debate.

Another important point that farmers forget and don't grasp for one second is this. Teagasc has research centres in Grange, Oak Park, Moorepark etc.

Just because an advisor tells you ''our results show that by increasing blah blah blah you'll increase productivity by blah blah blah!

The sites where these results are generated, are as far removed from the normal as one could expect. Different approaches will work in each and every farm, depending soil type, stocking rate, local climate, fertiliser type, etc Grass is growing well in Cork this past month, only staring to grow in Clare, Tipp and will likely only start to get going in Donegal end of March.

You cannot apply half the stuff that you hear/ read about. The information is as far removed from reality than attempting to farm like a rancher up in siberia!!

You're confusing research and advice. research looks comparitively at different ways of doing things and shows how one worked better or worse than another. sometimes, like in derrypatrick none of it works, but at least they tell us that too.


research and advice should be used to inform your decisions, but as whelan1 says, you make the decisions yourself.

paddysdream wrote: »

Getting back to the original point of the thread,I cannot see a new Reps Aeos type scheme coming back anytime soon.If it does it will have to be a lot more stringent than the reps schemes as the proposed greening measures will cover 90% plus of what was required under the reps schemes.
Anyone who thinks the eu will allow an agri envoirnmental scheme which does not produce tangible results and compels us to do a lot over and above Gaec and or greening is deluding themselves.
In all honesty anyone who joined reps 1 could draw most of the money without having to spend even 10% in most cases.Even in Reps 4 with careful selection of the options it was possible to do a lot without spending a fortune.
These schemes became top ups esp. for those on smaller SFP and their closure is part of the reason there is such a scramble for part of the new SFP pie.
Any new scheme I believe, will entail a substantial spend on the farmers part and be designed to give a noticable return re. green envioro side of things.

I could see an aeos scheme alright as outside of the natura topup there's little to no money for jam. it's much more of a paying you for specific work you've done type of scheme.


REPS was a joke of a scheme, people should never have been allowed to carry out the same actions twice, lads were being paid for work done years ago.


There will be a something new once the new cap has been agreed, but lord knows what form it will take.

Conmaicne Mara

I was wrong earlier.

There is talk of a new scheme.

But, I've heard bits and pieces from people involved and if true it will automatically rule a lot in my area out due to impossible to satisfy management issues.

Muckit

Myself, brother and the oul lad have our own discussion group!! :D Sometimes members of the group agree, but sometimes they don't!!

Muckit

You'd have 'guest speakers' then too from time to time. But the oul lad doesn't take kindly to their contributions. 'Farming from the kitchen sink' he calls it. Then an argument ensues and the meeting is adjourned...... and we have to go make our own dinner!! :pac::pac:

just do it

Muckit wrote: »

Myself, brother and the oul lad have our own discussion group!! :D Sometimes members of the group agree, but sometimes they don't!!

Muckit wrote: »

You'd have 'guest speakers' then too from time to time. But the oul lad doesn't take kindly to their contributions. 'Farming from the kitchen sink' he calls it. Then an argument ensues and the meeting is adjourned...... and we have to go make our own dinner!! :pac::pac:

Has the makings of a J.B. Keane play "Muckits' Discussions"

moy83

Muckit wrote: »

You'd have 'guest speakers' then too from time to time. But the oul lad doesn't take kindly to their contributions. 'Farming from the kitchen sink' he calls it. Then an argument ensues and the meeting is adjourned...... and we have to go make our own dinner!! :pac::pac:

Would the father win out usually Muckit ? We used to have those rows in our house too but the younger brother has lost interest in farming lately and the father isnt far behind him so I'm getting to make decisions on my own .I half miss the rows now , you cant beat a bit of shouting every now and then to make things interesting

Muckit

moy83 wrote: »

Would the father win out usually Muckit ?

Arragh it's hard to know... battles are won on all sides!

Niall1

Can anyone tell me if there is any news on AEOS 3?

moy83

I got a letter a couple of weeks ago but it was just to say they had recieved my application .It didnt say when they would telling us when/if we would be accepted though

Conmaicne Mara

If they're as quick with AEOS 3 as they were with AEOS 1 I'd be putting the feet up and relaxing, I had a 22 month wait to get anything.

moy83

Im wondering if there is any truth about a new scheme coming out next year thats going to be a cross between REPS and AEOS ? If there is would a lad be aswell waiting for that if it meant a few extra pound from the new scheme ?