Lollipop persons beside traffic lights

45mhrc7evo1d3n

Just curious as to why lollipop persons operate right next to some pedestrian/traffic lights in Galway? I have seen them at Scoil Fhursa, Presentation Primary and Tirellan N.S. I can't see the justification for this from either a cost or practicality viewpoint. Surely the availability of traffic lights enables pedestrians to cross the road without the need for manual assistance? (And yes, I am assuming that drivers are not breaking the lights, especially outside schools). It plays havoc with traffic flow and it's frustrating for motorists trying to get through the lights while they are green only to find themselves stopped manually when they have just been sitting at a red light which facilitated the crossing of pedestrians. Thoughts?

biko

It's not just in Galway. There's one close to where I live and the lollipop person seems to just make sure no-one is jumping the red lights and that the kids wait until they have green.

Yakuza

Same near my kids' schools (the lollipop people at various points on the road (~100 yards apart), one of whom is at a crossroads with ped lights. To be fair to her, she just moves onto the road when the lights go red, she doesn't manually interfere with flow . The other two are opposite the gates to the schools (boys and girls beside each other), there are no traffic lights there so they have to stop the flow themselves. It generally works out well. On wet days, it can be a bit chaotic, mind.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

That sounds like the sensible way to do things Biko, the ones I mentioned operate independently of the lights

biko

There was a discussion here a while back about the legalities and I think it was concluded it perfectly fine for lollipop people to stop traffic.
Frustrating I know but hey the kids need their edumacation.

ba_barabus

Can anyone else remember being a traffic warden at school? There was 6 of us and we had a whole routine. Iirc there was an all Ireland competition to find the best team every year. "Stop the traffic, taking our positions, CROSS NOW"

H3llR4iser

Quite a few of them outside a couple of schools near where I live and, to be honest, they are a nightmare - not only they interfere with the lights creating ridiculous tailbacks, some of them just love to jump on the road with their back to the traffic flow :eek::eek::eek:

Not sure if it's a deathwish, looking for compensation or just an excessive faith on the drivers...

Senecio

If its done correctly they should turn the lights off when the lollipop persons is operating during peak times (before and after school).

Think about it, a group of kids come up. The lollipop person stops traffic, the kids cross and traffic is flowing again 15 secs later. If there are lights it normally takes 30-45 after the kids have crossed for them to turn green again.

Lollipop persons can be far more efficient during peak times than fixed lights. Especially if they exercise common sense and hold a single kid back until others join them.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

I couldn't agree more Senecio, lollipop person instead of lights can help traffic flow. Lollipop person plus lights is a redundancy.

Iwannahurl

School Traffic Wardens are legally authorised to stop traffic, and their function is to help children cross the road safely at certain times of the day.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/school_traffic_wardens_in_ireland.html

Complaints about procedures to facilitate safe passage of schoolchildren on the road are unjustifiable, IMO.

djimi

Perla Mysterious Snot wrote: »

I couldn't agree more Senecio, lollipop person instead of lights can help traffic flow. Lollipop person plus lights is a redundancy.

I had always assumed that it was a safety thing, ie they are there to ensure that kids wait for the red light and do not run into traffic? Or to ensure that the traffic has actually stopped at a red light before allowing kids to cross.

I have no problem with lollipop people so long as they are sensible. If they operate at red lights, or allow a reasonable flow of traffic then they are fine. I have come across ones that cause widespread chaos though; stopping traffic every few seconds to allow 1-2 kids to cross and causing massive traffic holdups on busy roads.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Complaints about procedures to facilitate safe passage of schoolchildren on the road are unjustifiable, IMO.

But surely if there are lights, then their job should simply involve ensuring that the kids follow the instructions of the lights?

Having them stop traffic so kids can cross against the lights is just poor edumacation, IMHO. There's quite enough going on in Irish society to teach kids to "sock it to the man" without having public servants paid to do it.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But surely if there are lights, then their job should simply involve ensuring that the kids follow the instructions of the lights?

Having them stop traffic so kids can cross against the lights is just poor edumacation, IMHO. There's quite enough going on in Irish society to teach kids to "sock it to the man" without having public servants paid to do it.

You took the words right out of my mouth Mrs O.

Damien360

It is necessary to have the lollipop person and the lights together at the school my kids go to.

She presses the button, everyone waits and she allows them across. It keeps the kids in check but believe it or not, when she is not there, you would be stunned at the amount of parents who drive straight through a red light to get their kids to the front door of the school. People in cars bringing kids to school seem to be on their own planet and cannot see any other kids but their own.

I do remember a case in the paper a few years back of a judge that drove around a lollipop person on the road with kids crossing and when he was brought before the courts, claimed she had no right to stop his progress. Cannot remember outcome. It was in the Indo at the time.

45mhrc7evo1d3n

Damien360 wrote: »

It is necessary to have the lollipop person and the lights together at the school my kids go to.

Perhaps I should clarify that the lollipop persons I am referring to (in particular at Scoil Fhursa and the Pres primary) are not at the lights, they are a few yards away. So pedestrians have the choice of pressing the button and crossing at the lights themselves or crossing with the lollipop person. What I particularly enjoy when I am sitting in traffic is when a little darling presses the button and then because the green man doesn't appear quickly enough for their liking they keep on going to the lollipop person. And guess what, the light goes red against traffic a few seconds later but there's nobody at the pedestrian crossing to justify the delay to traffic.

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But surely if there are lights, then their job should simply involve ensuring that the kids follow the instructions of the lights?

Having them stop traffic so kids can cross against the lights is just poor edumacation, IMHO. There's quite enough going on in Irish society to teach kids to "sock it to the man" without having public servants paid to do it.

I would concede that it's probably not a good idea to give schoolchildren 'mixed signals', ie encouraging them to cross when they don't have the Green Man. However, if the traffic lights near the school are not responsive enough (and I know of locations where the pedestrian button is little better than placebo) then there may be practical reasons for assisting the kids to cross as the need arises. School Traffic Wardens receive formal training, so I'd be very interested to know what policies they are operating under.

Damien360 wrote: »

you would be stunned at the amount of parents who drive straight through a red light to get their kids to the front door of the school. People in cars bringing kids to school seem to be on their own planet and cannot see any other kids but their own.

This is a key point, IMO. There is an astonishing amount of ignorance and selfishness around when it comes to the driving of cars around schools. Quite apart from the driving up on footpaths and the obstruction of pedestrian crossings during drop-off and pick-up times, there's also the question of whether you can trust all motorists to stop at red lights and Zebra crossings.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/24736-residents-see-red-over-new-pedestrian-crossing-danger

Mind you, they don't always stop for the School Traffic Warden either.

slarkin123

I really don't see the point in having both. Our local secondary school has pedestrian lights and a lollipop lady, busy main road. My kids primary is on a busy side road, used as a short cut, and we can't get lights or a lollipop lady.

shooter88

Perla Mysterious Snot wrote: »

Just curious as to why lollipop persons operate right next to some pedestrian/traffic lights in Galway? I have seen them at Scoil Fhursa, Presentation Primary and Tirellan N.S. I can't see the justification for this from either a cost or practicality viewpoint. Surely the availability of traffic lights enables pedestrians to cross the road without the need for manual assistance? (And yes, I am assuming that drivers are not breaking the lights, especially outside schools). It plays havoc with traffic flow and it's frustrating for motorists trying to get through the lights while they are green only to find themselves stopped manually when they have just been sitting at a red light which facilitated the crossing of pedestrians. Thoughts?

The only thing you can do is go to who ever is over it and enlighten them of your problem,they prob won't be to happy that bad timing of crossings is causing unnecessary tailbacks

Dr.Rieux

A primary school local to me has both. The lollipop person presses the button, when the lights go green they walk out to let the kids across, but then when the lights go green for cars they stay there waiting for the people who are 10 or 15 yards away to get to the road and cross, then invariably some kid presses the button while crossing. In the end just as they get off the road the green man is about to come back on.

blackwhite

In my old job my commute used often take me past these lights

https://maps.google.com/?ll=53.351374,-6.242166&spn=0.003165,0.006539&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.351433,-6.242248&panoid=rc-EOLD7q4V5ht2yn4Vjqw&cbp=12,144,,0,7.38

Anyone who uses this road regularly will know that the lights were on some timer, and wouldn't change for about 20-30 seconds after the last change. However, once they did change, they'd stay on red (for cars) for 35 seconds (at them so many times I started to count it!)

The old git who used to man these lights (he's even included in the picture) had a horrendous habit of pressing the button as he was stepping out. As soon as he saw kids approaching he'd step out into the road, pressing the button as he went. Usually, it resulted in the kids being across before the lights had changed, and he'd step back onto the side of the road just as the red light appeared to stop the traffic flow for another 30 seconds....

Iwannahurl

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

A primary school local to me has both. The lollipop person presses the button, when the lights go green they walk out to let the kids across, but then when the lights go green for cars they stay there waiting for the people who are 10 or 15 yards away to get to the road and cross, then invariably some kid presses the button while crossing. In the end just as they get off the road the green man is about to come back on.

blackwhite wrote: »

The old git who used to man these lights (he's even included in the picture) had a horrendous habit of pressing the button as he was stepping out. As soon as he saw kids approaching he'd step out into the road, pressing the button as he went. Usually, it resulted in the kids being across before the lights had changed, and he'd step back onto the side of the road just as the red light appeared to stop the traffic flow for another 30 seconds....

In each case, approximately how long did it take for the schoolchildren to reach the crossing?

blackwhite

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In each case, approximately how long did it take for the schoolchildren to reach the crossing?

Anything from 10-30 seconds.

In cases where they are 30 seconds away he shouldn't be out blocking the road until maybe 10 seconds before they get there.

But lets not let your desire to bash motorists from behind your keyboard get in the way of what people have actually seen and experienced.

Iwannahurl

blackwhite wrote: »

Anything from 10-30 seconds.

In cases where they are 30 seconds away he shouldn't be out blocking the road until maybe 10 seconds before they get there.

When the pedestrian button is pressed, how long does it take for the 'Green Man' to appear?

And how long does it stay for?

blackwhite

Iwannahurl wrote: »

When the pedestrian button is pressed, how long does it take for the 'Green Man' to appear?

And how long does it stay for?

Read the post instead of trying to get a rise out of people

Iwannahurl

The question I'm asking is: when the pedestrians press the button, how long do they have to wait before they get the 'Green Man'?

AFAICS that has not been answered in previous posts.

blackwhite

blackwhite wrote: »

Anyone who uses this road regularly will know that the lights were on some timer, and wouldn't change for about 20-30 seconds after the last change. However, once they did change, they'd stay on red (for cars) for 35 seconds (at them so many times I started to count it!)

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The question I'm asking is: when the pedestrians press the button, how long do they have to wait before they get the 'Green Man'?

AFAICS that has not been answered in previous posts.

Not trying too hard to find it then :rolleyes:

bazzachazza

My mother is a lollipop lady and she says during the morning rush hour people regularly break the red light whilst driving in the bus lane. It has got so bad 3-4 mornings during the week she has at least one Garda with her to pull drivers who ignore the red lights and her signals to stop as they are legally required to do.

She had initially asked for them to come down for one morning just to watch as she feared that one of the children would get knocked down, the Garda that came said he had never seen such shocking driver behaviour and said he would try and get back a few times a month, within weeks this had increased to 3-4 times a week and where resources allowed they have 2-3 Gardai stopping drivers who would be on their phones, driving in the bus lane or driving through the red light etc. Cyclist are also a menace as well and can do serious damage to a 6 or 7 year old.

Just because there is a red light doesn't mean drivers will stop for it. Just because there is a lollipop lady signalling traffic to stop doesn't mean they will stop either.

The safest place for a lollipop lady to operate is at traffic lights

Iwannahurl

blackwhite wrote: »

Not trying too hard to find it then :rolleyes:

So schoolchildren and motorists have to wait approximately equal times at a traffic signal (30 vs 35 seconds)?

blackwhite

bazzachazza wrote: »

My mother is a lollipop lady and she says during the morning rush hour people regularly break the red light whilst driving in the bus lane. It has got so bad 3-4 mornings during the week she has at least one Garda with her to pull drivers who ignore the red lights and her signals to stop as they are legally required to do.

She had initially asked for them to come down for one morning just to watch as she feared that one of the children would get knocked down, the Garda that came said he had never seen such shocking driver behaviour and said he would try and get back a few times a month, within weeks this had increased to 3-4 times a week and where resources allowed they have 2-3 Gardai stopping drivers who would be on their phones, driving in the bus lane or driving through the red light etc. Cyclist are also a menace as well and can do serious damage to a 6 or 7 year old.

Just because there is a red light doesn't mean drivers will stop for it. Just because there is a lollipop lady signalling traffic to stop doesn't mean they will stop either.

The safest place for a lollipop lady to operate is at traffic lights

Thankfully never saw that happening at the ones on Saville Place, but if it's getting endemic then a red light camera or a bus lane camera should really be put in place.

Why in this country are we so keen on putting speed cameras everywhere but have no inclination to put cameras up to catch other motoring offences?

blackwhite

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So schoolchildren and cars have to wait approximately equal times at a traffic signal (30 vs 35 seconds)?

No.

Read the post and stop trying to wind people up.

If the lollipop man waited for the lights to change then everyone would have to wait an equal time. Instead he presses the button and steps onto the road. Meaning that the cars get maybe 10-15 seconds where they can proceed, and the pedestrians have 20-25 seconds where they can cross against the red man, followed by another 35 seconds of the green man.

Are you really incapable of comprehending English, or is it just your usual tripe?

bazzachazza

On my mothers road the traffic would be usually backed up from the large junction at the end so she wouldn't be holding up traffic from moving for more than a few seconds and generally they would only be rolling forward a few meters to stop in traffic.

The problem is with car drivers in the bus lane-illegally and car drivers who sit passed the stop line on a red or with her there and then moving off when the traffic in front moves instead of waiting for my mother to finish or the red light to change. She only operates with the lights i.e. when they're red and its a busy traffic clogged road anyway and its only for 20 minutes or so.

Iwannahurl

blackwhite wrote: »

If the lollipop man waited for the lights to change then everyone would have to wait an equal time. Instead he presses the button and steps onto the road. Meaning that the cars get maybe 10-15 seconds where they can proceed, and the pedestrians have 20-25 seconds where they can cross against the red man, followed by another 35 seconds of the green man.

So, we're talking here about schoolchildren needing to cross the road safely, a few times every day during term time.

The 'dwell' time for motorists and children would be about the same, in terms of waiting for the lights to change.

The school traffic warden, whose responsibility it is to help the children cross safely, organises things so that he starts the process of crossing as children approach, rather than wait for a queue of children to form, then keep a group of kids in check while waiting for the green man.

This shocking sequence of events occurs repeatedly during a couple of periods every school day, gratuitously stopping traffic flow for as long as 30 seconds at a time.

Oh, the humanity. Time to call in the OHCHR...

blackwhite

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So, we're talking here about schoolchildren needing to cross the road safely, a few times every day during term time.

The 'dwell' time for motorists and children would be about the same, in terms of waiting for the lights to change.

The school traffic warden, whose responsibility it is to help the children cross safely, organises things so that he starts the process of crossing as children approach, rather than wait for a queue of children to form, then keep a group of kids in check while waiting for the green man.

This shocking sequence of events occurs repeatedly during a couple of periods every school day, gratuitously stopping traffic flow for as long as 30 seconds at a time.

Oh, the humanity. Time to call in the OHCHR...

As usual, you seem to think you know better what happens than anyone who as actually been at the scene...

If trying to get rises out people by pretending to to be incapable of comprehending basic English if how you get you jollies then by all means carry on.....

As always, trolls go on ignore

Iwannahurl

Obey the RoTR, practice being patient, and get out of your car and walk once in a while.

You might learn something.