Temp. staff and holiday/Bank Holiday entitlements

bob_sponge

Hi,

I'm working as a PA through an employment agency at the moment. The role is "temporary with a view to permanency". I'm in my current role just over a month. I was under the assumption that I only get paid for hours worked but someone mentioned the new act that came into force last year to protect agency workers, it mentions annual leave entitlements but there is no mention of pay. Does anyone know if I'm correct in my assumption that I will not be paid for any days taken off as leave or Bank Holidays?

Any information much appreciated!

Nody

You should get paid for the days you've accrued for holidays at the very least (assuming full time with legal minimum of 20 days a year that would be 1.67 days a month).

In terms of bank holiday you should also be entitled to payment/time off if you have worked 40h in the previous 5 weeks of the bank holiday.

tatli_lokma

and also, remember that your AL is accrued with the agency, not the company you are placed with. So any work you perform for that agency is eligible to be included for the purposes of accruing your leave and deciding what public holiday entitlements you are due.

However, please note, Monday the 18th of March is NOT a public holiday. It is a bank holiday. Sunday the 17th is the actual public holiday. Many companies will not open on the 18th and will give it as a day in lieu of the Sunday, but it is at their own discretion. If they decide to open, then they can compensate for the Sunday public holiday by one of the following:
•A paid day off within a month of the public holiday
•An additional day of annual leave
•An additional day's pay
It is the companies choice which they offer.

So please check with the company you are placed with to ensure that in fact you are not expected to work that day!

Dozo

Can you tell me if this would also apply for people working through an umbrella company ? I.e. umbrellla invoices agency and agency invoices company where the work is. I am an PAYE worker with the umbrella company.
Both agency and admin of umbrella company say I have no entitlements.

tatli_lokma

yes it would be the same for an umbrella company. The company you work with pay the umbrella company your hourly rate plus a premium. The umbrella company calculates this premium so that it covers their expenses for AL, public holidays etc. All PAYE workers, provided they have worked the required hours in the preceding 5 weeks have some entitlement to public holiday allowances. What this entitlement is will depend on the number of hours you work etc. All the information is here:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/public_holidays_in_ireland.html

If the umbrella company pays your wages, then they are your employer. As such they have an obligation to ensure you are getting your statutory entitlements (such as AL and public holidays). If the agency pays the wage to you, then they are your employer, but the same rule applies.
Whatever name is listed as your employer on your payslip, go to them and chase this up as you do have an entitlement.


If you are a self-employed contractor then different rules apply and AFAIK there is no obligation on the company contracting your services to pay any premium. Others may correct me on this - I do not have a lot of experience with self-employed contractor entitlements.

libidoontour

it came to my attention your are entitled to 80% of the days off as perms so all depends on how long your contract is

tatli_lokma

libidoontour wrote: »

it came to my attention your are entitled to 80% of the days off as perms so all depends on how long your contract is

What do you mean by 80% of days off as perms?

The new directive on agency workers means they cannot be treated less favourably than permanent employees. So there should be no difference in entitlement provided they have worked the required 40 hours in the preceding 5 weeks.

Dozo

Hi,

Thanks for that.
It is not exactly like that. The umbrella company invoices the agency + vat, the agency invoices the work place + vat.
There is no premium added to the amount.
The problem is, they treat me as if I am self-employed, but I am a Paye worker for the umbrella company. I am under clear supervision of the work place and I do not contest that at all. I am saying that as i know that revenue would look if you act as a company (ie self employed) or not.

Now the question rises is my holiday allowance included in my daily pay ? If so, would my daily rate minus the included holiday allowance be the same as that of permanent workers (I work for a hospital) ?

libidoontour

Little Ted wrote: »

What do you mean by 80% of days off as perms?

The new directive on agency workers means they cannot be treated less favourably than permanent employees. So there should be no difference in entitlement provided they have worked the required 40 hours in the preceding 5 weeks.

its the law...maybe it has changed recently but im pretty sure thats how it goes as for paid holidays..glad i could help

tatli_lokma

libidoontour wrote: »

its the law...maybe it has changed recently but im pretty sure thats how it goes as for paid holidays..glad i could help

What law are you refering to?

tatli_lokma

Dozo wrote: »

Hi,

Thanks for that.
It is not exactly like that. The umbrella company invoices the agency + vat, the agency invoices the work place + vat.
There is no premium added to the amount.
The problem is, they treat me as if I am self-employed, but I am a Paye worker for the umbrella company. I am under clear supervision of the work place and I do not contest that at all. I am saying that as i know that revenue would look if you act as a company (ie self employed) or not.

Now the question rises is my holiday allowance included in my daily pay ? If so, would my daily rate minus the included holiday allowance be the same as that of permanent workers (I work for a hospital) ?

Do you submit an invoice to get paid? or are you paid as a PAYE employee and get a pay slip? If you get a payslip, then whatever company is listed is your employer. You are entitled to your statutory minimum rights. If you are a contractor then I believe that is a different set up.

Dozo

Little Ted wrote: »

Do you submit an invoice to get paid? or are you paid as a PAYE employee and get a pay slip? If you get a payslip, then whatever company is listed is your employer. You are entitled to your statutory minimum rights. If you are a contractor then I believe that is a different set up.

I get paid as a PAYE employee and get a payslip from the umbrella company. There is an admin company who are doing this in my behalve for which I have to pay them about 100 E each month.
That fee (100 E) is clearly not enough to pay my holiday entitlements and also their admin costs etc.
I think the agency should be the one who should give me this. About 20% to 25% of the total bill for the work place is for the agency. Which is a big bill for only shifting invoices.

tatli_lokma

My limited experience of such things tells me that umbrella company should be giving AL and public hols as you are a PAYE worker for them. However I have never encountered a situation as you describe, which from your description sounds like you are a contractor, but paying an intermediary agency to submit invoicing for you and facilitiate you being paid as PAYE. I have never come across this before. Perhaps one of the other boardsies who works as a contractor can better advise. Or maybe check over in the entrepreneurial forum?

Sorry I can't be of more help?

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

My limited experience of such things tells me that umbrella company should be giving AL and public hols as you are a PAYE worker for them. However I have never encountered a situation as you describe, which from your description sounds like you are a contractor, but paying an intermediary agency to submit invoicing for you and facilitiate you being paid as PAYE.?

Little Ted, that is exactly what an umbrella company situation is: it's a way of making the worker into a PAYE employee, without the company getting the work done being an employer.


OP your contract with the umbrella company should specify whether holiday pay (both annual leave and public holidays) is built into your daily rate, or paid to you separately. If it is paid to you separately, then the umbrella company will reduce your daily rate by their fee, your employer PRSI, your employee PRSI and PAYE and USE, and by an amount to cover the holiday liability. Most people would rather get the cash every month, rather than wait for holiday time to arrive.

Dozo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Little Ted, that is exactly what an umbrella company situation is: it's a way of making the worker into a PAYE employee, without the company getting the work done being an employer.


OP your contract with the umbrella company should specify whether holiday pay (both annual leave and public holidays) is built into your daily rate, or paid to you separately. If it is paid to you separately, then the umbrella company will reduce your daily rate by their fee, your employer PRSI, your employee PRSI and PAYE and USE, and by an amount to cover the holiday liability. Most people would rather get the cash every month, rather than wait for holiday time to arrive.

Thanks.
Holidays are not mentioned in my contract so it's automatically built into the daily rate.
However there is still the issue that because of this my pay is not the same as that of permanent workers. i.e. daily rate minus holidays allowance minus public holidays etc. brings my pay under that of permanent workers.
At the moment I cannot afford to take any holidays, so I have been working nearly full time for the last two years.

As far as I am aware, in the UK it was mentioned that umbrella companies are within the scope of the Agency workers directive, especially when it concerns workers who work under direct supervision of the work place (like myself).