Do UPC own cabling in apartment blocks?

dubrov

I am in an apartment block which was pre-wired for UPC when it was built.
I guess a deal was done with UPC when it was built.

I was looking at the possibility of getting in satellite and have been informed by an independent installer that UPC own the cables so a whole new set of additional wiring would need to be installed. So, the current cabling can only be used for UPC.

Anyone know if this is true?
It seems pretty anti-competitive to me.

augustus gloop

almost definitely their cable, they have it all tied up. in the phoenix park race course we were told it was UPC or nothing, I had being cornered in like that too but nothing can be done AFAIK

dubrov

Thanks Augustus.

If I was in a house, I'm sure UPC would have no entitlement to remove installed internal cables so seems unfair for apartments,

I am not even looking to get rid of UPC just share their cabling with other services.

lucernarian

Is there a problem in having a different set of cables supply your TV service in this apartment? I would think UPC would have control over the use of the cables they bought or rent out. Coaxial cables can only carry so much, it can't have multiple providers using the one cable for triple play services each. Sharing the pipe the cables are coming in, should be an allowable idea.

bmaxi

In the apartment block where my daughter lived Sky was recently installed even though the building was cabled for UPC, so it's obviously possible. This would have been a group initiative though, individual installations may differ.

listermint

Ive got UPC for my internet, and Satellite for my TV, from a subtley installed sat dish. (pays to be on the top floor)

In an apartment all the upc cables go back to a riser and then to a upc splitter.
All you have to do is get the riser key.
trace back your cables (using a special tool)
Run some new coax up the riser to the roof if possible.Most of the time the riser backs onto the lift shaft.
You could drill into the lift shaft and get to the roof that way.
Connect you new coaxes up to your current ones and your away.
obviously every building is different and you need an inside man to get you access but its doable.
depending on when it was built you might have one current coax going to the main room point and one to the bed room.
you'll need 2 for sky+

UPC broadband is by far the best.and who needs sky when you've got the pirate bay

listermint

urbanledge wrote: »

In an apartment all the upc cables go back to a riser and then to a upc splitter.
All you have to do is get the riser key.
trace back your cables (using a special tool)
Run some new coax up the riser to the roof if possible.Most of the time the riser backs onto the lift shaft.
You could drill into the lift shaft and get to the roof that way.
Connect you new coaxes up to your current ones and your away.
obviously every building is different and you need an inside man to get you access but its doable.
depending on when it was built you might have one current coax going to the main room point and one to the bed room.
you'll need 2 for sky+

UPC broadband is by far the best.and who needs sky when you've got the pirate bay

All of this would involve access to the roof and installation of a dish on said roof.

In the real world the OP more than likely wont have the facility to this.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

All of this would involve access to the roof and installation of a dish on said roof.

In the real world the OP more than likely wont have the facility to this.

As stated in the post you'll need an inside man.

zg3409

If your apartment is on the south east side of the building you might be able to put a dish outside your window and run the cable in that way.

dubrov

dubrov wrote: »

Thanks Augustus.

If I was in a house, I'm sure UPC would have no entitlement to remove installed internal cables so seems unfair for apartments,

I am not even looking to get rid of UPC just share their cabling with other services.

I'm not saying I agree with it (in fact I really don't, would put me off moving into an apartment complex among some other issues) but they get away with it because the management company own the building as a whole, so what they say goes.

dubrov

Thanks for all the responses.
I was actually looking at a communal dish install.
From the quote I have from an independent installer, it seems way to expensive to install fta/sky .
I guess laying new cabling is very expensive once a block has been built.

I might see if Sky will install a communal dish for free and then dump them for fta after a year

zg3409

dubrov wrote: »

I might see if Sky will install a communal dish for free and then dump them for fta after a year

Skys communial system does not include an aerial for Saorview. Some tenants might be able to get RTE etc from an indoor or small aerial out a window.

Just beware Sky may have catches etc. They also have a "single cable router" system, although mostly not used anymore, that would not work with non Sky boxes.

You get what you pay for...

homelink

dubrov wrote: »

I am in an apartment block which was pre-wired for UPC when it was built.
I guess a deal was done with UPC when it was built.

I was looking at the possibility of getting in satellite and have been informed by an independent installer that UPC own the cables so a whole new set of additional wiring would need to be installed. So, the current cabling can only be used for UPC.

Anyone know if this is true?
It seems pretty anti-competitive to me.

No provider, either UPC, Sky or anyone else owns the cabling going into the apartment. The owner does. The providers own the supply (backbone) cabling but the cables going directly into you apartment are yours. If Sky, or another third party was to install a communal system they would need to supply cabling from a dish to a multi switch/es. They would then connect your cables to their network.

homelink

homelink wrote: »

No provider, either UPC, Sky or anyone else owns the cabling going into the apartment. The owner does. The providers own the supply (backbone) cabling but the cables going directly into you apartment are yours. If Sky, or another third party was to install a communal system they would need to supply cabling from a dish to a multi switch/es. They would then connect your cables to their network.

Would it not be the management company who own the cables? You usually just own the open space in the apartment.

maxg

dubrov wrote: »

I might see if Sky will install a communal dish for free and then dump them for fta after a year

http://www.sky.com/ireland/boxes/skyinyourapartment/

In bigger apartment estates sky normally let install a optical fibre solution if there is enough demand for subscriptions and the managemnet company give their ok.

STB

dubrov wrote: »

I am in an apartment block which was pre-wired for UPC when it was built.
I guess a deal was done with UPC when it was built.

I was looking at the possibility of getting in satellite and have been informed by an independent installer that UPC own the cables so a whole new set of additional wiring would need to be installed. So, the current cabling can only be used for UPC.

Anyone know if this is true?
It seems pretty anti-competitive to me.

You should read this thread. It also contains links to others.

I am guessing you are an owner ? The bottom line is that the power is in your hands. You control who is and isnt a service provider in your development.

In 2009 the competition watchdog having investigated 100s of complaints did say that the period of exclusivity should only run for long enough for TV providers to make back their costs, generally no more than two years. Where there are more long-term agreements, "competition problems may arise" and residents should contact the Competition Authority to report any concerns.

UPC do not own the cables. All apartments are pre-cabled and not for OR by UPC and their exclusive use.

Get UPC out, an independent installer in, have communal dishes connected to them. Then for TV purposes you have a system that can support FTA TV and a pay system. People only need connect a Sky box to the existing infrastructure.

Never ever let a pay only company into your complex.

maxg

@STB
And who should pay the whole thing. If there are several leaseholders you don't get them all together to share the costs.

T-K-O

Depends on the apartment block. My last place the physical cable was owned by one guy.

Internet options 2mb line @ €25.00 a month. I was only too happy to move on from there..

zg3409

In practical terms it can be difficult to get these systems in. Many residents/owners of apartments are not even paying the managment fee, let alone their mortgages etc.

Many blocks have unsold/empty apartments and have trouble paying for communal services such as bins, public liability insurance, repair of lifts etc.

The opposite side of this is also unsightly dozens of dishes mounted in such a way as to damage brickwork and create an eyesore.

Ideally everyone would get together, and come to a compromise as to what is available and to whom, but in reality management companies have far bigger problems to worry about.

Yes you should check what services are available before renting/buying an apartment, but personally, in practice I would see what hidden/neat solutions could be personally installed if possible before taking on the whole politics and delays of managment companies.

If I ran the country I would mandate minimum services for apartments that would include at minimum access to ducts to the roof for future use. In a perfect world all apartments would be pre-wired with fibre for Satellite TV and Fibre optic internet.

dubrov

I've already had a quote for a FTA/Saorview install and it would be cheaper (and less hassle) to just stay with UPC. The quote involved a completely new set of cabling so I'm guessing that made up quite a bit of the cost.
I don't think there is any issue with allowing another provider in, but there might be using the upc cables.

@STB
Any chance you do apartment installs?
If so could i pm you with some details to see if you might be interested?

Wisesmurf

dubrov wrote: »

I've already had a quote for a FTA/Saorview install and it would be cheaper (and less hassle) to just stay with UPC. The quote involved a completely new set of cabling so I'm guessing that made up quite a bit of the cost.
I don't think there is any issue with allowing another provider in, but there might be using the upc cables.

@STB
Any chance you do apartment installs?
If so could i pm you with some details to see if you might be interested?

I used a guy on the Northside last year in my apt and he did a neat job. I'll leave first option to STB but if you're stuck pm me and I'll send you his number.

maxg

dubrov wrote: »

I've already had a quote for a FTA/Saorview install and it would be cheaper (and less hassle) to just stay with UPC. The quote involved a completely new set of cabling so I'm guessing that made up quite a bit of the cost.
I don't think there is any issue with allowing another provider in, but there might be using the upc cables.

If you find 4 new sky subsribers including you in your block you can get the ball rolling with sky.
The installation firm also except non subscribers for a installation fee.
Btw a optical fibre installation is normally cabled outside of the house and entering the apartments through the windows frame. A optical fibre cable is only 3 mm.

Greyham

augustus gloop wrote: »

almost definitely their cable, they have it all tied up. in the phoenix park race course we were told it was UPC or nothing, I had being cornered in like that too but nothing can be done AFAIK

I'll admit its an issue of choice, but at least you're stuck with a provider who provides a great service

try being stuck with rural eircom.

STB

maxg wrote: »

@STB
And who should pay the whole thing. If there are several leaseholders you don't get them all together to share the costs.

The underlying issue only arises as some cosy deal was perhaps done agreed with the developer to allow a pay only company in. These exclusive arrangements exist from the good old days of the celtic tiger when these mass developments were being whacked up. In some cases cabling was just that cabling alone to do with what you want with. Not all developments went down the road of letting the first subscription company in for their exclusive use. Some developments were pragmatic, getting an independent installer in to send FTA DVB-T and DVB-S signals to each unit from a communal distributed system (with the requiremnt that the apartment user had the necessary FTA equipment to utilise same at the receiving end). After that people could utilise the same system for use with outside subscription companies in tandem with those who just wanted fta.

Were exclusive use of the cabling system was handed over to some subscription only company and you are not happy with this, you get yourself on the management company and get the pay only company out. UPC do not own any cabling other than that outside the development itself. Cabling within individual apartments and common areas is owned by the owner and the management company respectively. Each individual owner is a member of the management company. In most cases were the development has been handed over to the owners they elect their own management board from owners interested in controlling their own development.

In short to answer your question, yes, the implementation of a FTA system by an independent installer using communal dishes, a distribution unit in a patch rooms is required, but is not cost prohibitive. It is also a long term investment. Service arrangements for bins, gardening, lighting, maintenance are enetred into by a management agent on behalf of the management company on a cost basis out of individual management fees. Nobody should be left in situation whereby sub only companies exist indefinitely.

Anyone who has not seen management company accounts would be shocked at some of the amounts that are paid for needless items in their development, paid from their communal management fees. Basic TV "services" should be one of the basics and not at the expense of some commercial companies profit interests I'm sure you would agree.

maxg wrote: »

http://www.sky.com/ireland/boxes/skyinyourapartment/

In bigger apartment estates sky normally let install a optical fibre solution if there is enough demand for subscriptions and the managemnet company give their ok.

Which would be a retrograde step. IE allowing Sky install a cabling join solution for only those subscribe to their services. Sub companies love that word...... exclusive.

dubrov wrote: »

I've already had a quote for a FTA/Saorview install and it would be cheaper (and less hassle) to just stay with UPC. The quote involved a completely new set of cabling so I'm guessing that made up quite a bit of the cost.
I don't think there is any issue with allowing another provider in, but there might be using the upc cables.

@STB
Any chance you do apartment installs?
If so could i pm you with some details to see if you might be interested?

Read the above. If you are an apartment owner get yourself onto the management company board and get your proposals to get fta in over the current arrangement.

No I am not a satellite or aerial installer.

dubrov

I received a second quote from another independent installer and they came much cheaper than my initial vote (~20%). They seem to have much more experience with communal installs and came up with a much better solution. I think this will go to a vote at the next AGM.

The solution would be a single satellite dish feeding fiber cable that will run in the service riser. This will then be connected to the already existing internal cabling in each apartment.

The only problem is that as each apartment is only wired with a single coax so it will not be possible to retain UPC (for broadband) and get FTA at the same time. You can only have one or the other.
Broadband can still be obtained through the pre-wired phone line though.
The other option is to install a second cable but I'd say that would mean drilling/messing with skirting boards/replastering etc so probably not worth it.

At least it will mean choice anyway

STB

dubrov wrote: »

I received a second quote from another independent installer and they came much cheaper than my initial vote (~20%). They seem to have much more experience with communal installs and came up with a much better solution. I think this will go to a vote at the next AGM.

The solution would be a single satellite dish feeding fiber cable that will run in the service riser. This will then be connected to the already existing internal cabling in each apartment.

The only problem is that as each apartment is only wired with a single coax so it will not be possible to retain UPC (for broadband) and get FTA at the same time. You can only have one or the other.
Broadband can still be obtained through the pre-wired phone line though.
The other option is to install a second cable but I'd say that would mean drilling/messing with skirting boards/replastering etc so probably not worth it.

At least it will mean choice anyway

The bolded part and your existing situation. Get a quote for both Saorview and FTA Satellite. They are combined on the one cable feed into each apartment. The signal for each is then simply split out at the other end in the apartment itself(ie a saorview and a satelitte feed) with one of these (about €2 each).



And yes it does offer more choice and at least the option of no bills TV.