Bloody Sunday 1920 details and information

wunsquurr

Hi,
I'm trying to get some information and research on Bloody Sunday 1920.

I'm really keen to find any information - anything regarding the assassinations of the Cairo Gang, Collins' plans, the events at the Croke Park match, and aftermath.

First hand sources and accounts are particularly interesting, I wonder if anyone could point me in the direction of anything helpful? Thanks!

mickmackey1

Just one quirky detail :

pedroeibar1

Go to the Bureau of Military History site and read the witness statements -
http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/bmhsearch/search.jsp?querystr=croke

johnny_doyle

http://www.cairogang.com/

wunsquurr

Thanks for all that, yes I came across the Bureau of Military History statements recently- really interesting! I'm also trying to find accounts of some of the civilians who were present, or information about some of the civilians who were killed

hasta

Here's a really interesting little interview with a gent from East Wall whose father was playing at Croke park that day
http://eastwallforall.ie/?p=727

Snickers Man

I was just wondering, which section of the Crown Forces did the shooting at Croke Park on Bloody Sunday 1920?

People will probably use the catch all "Black and Tans" but who were they? So far as I know that is really just a derogatory term for anyone carrying a gun in the service of the Crown.

It wouldn't have been the RIC. They were not the police force in Dublin; that role fell to the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP). But it seems to me it couldn't have been they because they, like the Gardai, were an unarmed force.

Was it the Army? If so, what was the legal justification for that? Was Dublin under martial law at the time?

Was it Special Branch or another armed agency of the state?

Were the perpetrators more likely to have been British or Irish?

I'm just curious.

Peregrinus

While the DMP was a force whose jurisdiction was specifically confined to Dublin, the RIC had jurisdiction everywhere, including in Dublin, so it's incorrect to say that they didn't operate in Dublin. They did, and in fact they had a large establishment in Dublin. In normal conditions, much of the routine constable-on-the-beat work and matters like dog licenses were in the hands of the DMP, but the RIC handled most detective work, most political work, the guarding of public buildings, etc. And during the Troubles, all bets were off. The DMP was not only unarmed, but also regarded (correctly, for the most part) as being of questionable loyalty, so everything to do with the IRA, Sinn Fein, the Troubles, etc was handled by the RIC (or the British Army, of course).

The Black-and-Tans were officially the Reserve Division of the RIC. There was also an Auxiliary Division of the RIC (the "Auxies") and the term Black-and-Tans was sometimes applied to both. The Auxies were supposedly a higher class of men; they were recruited exclusively from unemployed demobilised army officers (of which there was, of course, no shortage) whereas the Reserve Division was recruited from demobilised soldiers of any rank. The Auxies were paid twice as much as the Reserves, and were expected (as ex-officers) to be capable of a degree of independent judgment and action. Their reputation, however, is largely as a bunch of savages.

There were about 7,000 in the Reserve Division, and 2,000 Auxies. Many of the reserves would have been under the command ofAuxies, but many would have been commanded by regular RIC officers.

But it's wrong to say that it applied to everyone fighting on the crown side; the regular RIC and the regular Army were not included.

The shootings at Croke Park on Bloody Sunday were carried out by regular RIC officers supported by Auxies. The regular army was in support of the operation but, if I remember correctly, did not enter the stadium and did not fire any shots.

Snickers Man

Peregrinus wrote: »

While the DMP was a force whose jurisdiction was specifically confined to Dublin, the RIC had jurisdiction everywhere, including in Dublin, so it's incorrect to say that they didn't operate in Dublin. ...the RIC handled most detective work, most political work, the guarding of public buildings, etc. And during the Troubles, ......everything to do with the IRA, Sinn Fein, the Troubles, etc was handled by the RIC (or the British Army, of course).

Thanks for the clarification. I was unsure as to how the responsibilities of DMP and RIC were shared with regard to Dublin.

Peregrinus wrote: »

The shootings at Croke Park on Bloody Sunday were carried out by regular RIC officers supported by Auxies. The regular army was in support of the operation but, if I remember correctly, did not enter the stadium and did not fire any shots.

So is it probable then that most of the shooting in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday was carried out by Irishmen, most of whom would have been ordinary working class Catholics, like the people they were gunning down?

Peregrinus

Snickers Man wrote: »

So is it probable then that most of the shooting in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday was carried out by Irishmen, most of whom would have been ordinary working class Catholics, like the people they were gunning down?

Possible, but I think not probable. The Auxies were largely British, and they were generally regarded as much more undisciplined, and much more savage, than the regular RIC. Both regular RIC and Auxies were present at Croke Park and the shots could have been fired by either, but both the popular stereotype and what we know from the historians would lead us to conclude that the lad most likely to fly off the handle and open fire without being fired upon were the Auxies, not the regulars.

Historybluff

You should read these articles on 'Bloody Sunday' and chase up the references:

Anne Dolan, 'Killing and Bloody Sunday, November 1920', Historical Journal, vol. 49, no. 3 (2006), pp. 789-810

David Leeson, 'Death in the Afternoon: The Croke Park Massacre, 21 November 1920', Canadian Journal of History, vol. 38 (2003), pp. 43-67

Jane Leonard, ''English Dogs' or 'Poor Devils'? The Dead of Bloody Sunday Morning', in David Fitzpatrick (ed.), Terror in Ireland 1916-1923 (Dublin: Lilliput Press, 2012), pp 102-140