Part 4 and Hassle from Letting Agent

elusiveguy

Hello,

I hope someone can offer advice on this.

Myself and my partner are trying to remain in a property under the 'stuff' thats in part 4 of the RTA.

We were a bit late with the notice at the end of the fixed term but at the same time we'd heard nothing from the agent and just couldn't remember when the lease was up and never bothered to check....Threshold tell me this doesn't matter and that we are protected under part 4, fullstop, no arguments etc

Now the estate agents have been extremely rude and aggressive in the manner with which they are pursuing us to sign another fixed term, to the point that I've had the owner of the agency shouting 'what exactly is your problem' down the phone at me over and over. They keep calling to say our lease is ready to sign and then either get ratty or hang up when part 4 is mentioned, they now seem to have given up on me and started the same with my partner.

Can I use the 'quiet enjoyment of the property' part of the RTA to try to stop this?

djimi

Have a read through the RTA 2004 and Citizens Information and dig out the parts about automatically aquiring part 4 rights after 6 months in the tenancy. Put it all down in a letter and send it to the letting agent. Inform them that if they keep harrassing you then you will have no choice but to take a case against them for denying you your legal rights to quiet enjoyment of the property.

From here on in deal only in written correspondance; do not take calls and do not get dragged into verbal arguments. Make sure that you have written proof of everything that is said from now on.

TheBandicoot

Why are LLs/agents so unwilling to use Part 4 leases?

gaius c

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Why are LLs/agents so unwilling to use Part 4 leases?

I suspect that quite a few of them don't fully understand it and think the tenant is trying to pull a fast one on them.

TheBandicoot

gaius c wrote: »

I suspect that quite a few of them don't fully understand it and think the tenant is trying to pull a fast one on them.

True, I sense a lot of ignorance out there.

In fairness, deos the LL really get anything out of it? It just gives the tenant power to leave giving notice, I'm sure the LL would rather have the tenant locked in and committed to a fixed term.

djimi

I have heard that some agents get a reletting fee, or a fee for re-signing a tenant to a further year, so that may be part of the motivation for them to not want someone going onto a part 4, but I have no idea how true that is.

Its been said before, but stories like this just further prove the need for proper regulation for letting agents in this country. The number of them that are running cowboy operations and havent got a clue of the law is a bit frightening.

gaius c

The other reason is that agents like locking people into 12 month leases with no flexibility so they have more excuses not to return the deposit.

@TheBandicoot
Landlord gets a longer notice period.

elusiveguy

djimi wrote: »

I have heard that some agents get a reletting fee, or a fee for re-signing a tenant to a further year, so that may be part of the motivation for them to not want someone going onto a part 4, but I have no idea how true that is.

Our agent swears blind that this is NOT the case for them. I don't understand why they're making such a big deal and being so f-ing horrible about the whole thing.

can one refuse to deal with an agent and insist on dealing with the LL directly?

djimi

You have the landlords details (or at least, you should have) on the lease, so I would see no issue in contacting them directly to inform them of the agents behaviour. Of course, you may well get the same response from the landlord, but I suppose its worth a try.

3DataModem

If landlords understood Part 4 they would use it. I use it.

However... I would be careful about using it to force a landlord into letting you stay when they otherwise don't want you.

It just takes three quotes from a contractor and you can have the tenant out on the "major renovations" clause.

Once the tenant leaves, the landlord can candle the "refurb" and even write to the tenant inviting them to return as the refurb had been cancelled. 95% of them won't, but the PRTB won't find against the landlord.

elusiveguy

3DataModem wrote: »

If landlords understood Part 4 they would use it. I use it.

However... I would be careful about using it to force a landlord into letting you stay when they otherwise don't want you.

We've had no indication that anyone wants us out.... they're just trying to force us to sign a fixed term lease. I've offered to sign if there is a break clause in line with the part 4 rules but the best they've done is to call my partner and say our lease with the option to break at 6 months is ready to sign and then hang up on her when she said that wasn't what was agreed....

djimi

What does a fixed term lease actually offer a landlord anyway? Surely a landlord would prefer the option of a flexible part 4 which at least gives them some options to terminate, as opposed to a fixed term which gives them virtually no termination options unless the tenant breaks the terms of the lease? In reality a fixed term lease does not offer a lot of security for a landlord; if a tenant wants out they can reassign the lease, or if they accept the loss of their deposit then they will just walk away in the knowledge that more often than not the landlord will not go through the hassle of persuing them.

Jo King

elusiveguy wrote: »

Hello,

I hope someone can offer advice on this.

Myself and my partner are trying to remain in a property under the 'stuff' thats in part 4 of the RTA.

We were a bit late with the notice at the end of the fixed term but at the same time we'd heard nothing from the agent and just couldn't remember when the lease was up and never bothered to check....Threshold tell me this doesn't matter and that we are protected under part 4, fullstop, no arguments etc

Now the estate agents have been extremely rude and aggressive in the manner with which they are pursuing us to sign another fixed term, to the point that I've had the owner of the agency shouting 'what exactly is your problem' down the phone at me over and over. They keep calling to say our lease is ready to sign and then either get ratty or hang up when part 4 is mentioned, they now seem to have given up on me and started the same with my partner.

Can I use the 'quiet enjoyment of the property' part of the RTA to try to stop this?

You will have to complain about the Landlord to the PRTB to avail of quiet enjoyment. You can complain about the agent to the Property Services Regulatory Authority.

elusiveguy

Jo King wrote: »

You will have to complain about the Landlord to the PRTB to avail of quiet enjoyment. You can complain about the agent to the Property Services Regulatory Authority.

Not signed up to code of practice.... Am i surprised???

Dublin21

Hi OP,

We had the exact same issue in the last few months.

We told the agency that we wished to remain in the property under P4 tenancy and we were told that the landlord refuses to let the property under these terms.

Got onto Threshold who advised us that that was incorrect.
Went back to the agency with the information Threshold gave us and they said that they did not agree with Thresholds interpretation! Joke.

If i was intent on staying in the property (or property was affected by damp so we wanted out eventually anyway) i would just refuse to sign the lease and stay at the property.
They can't just evict you for not signing another lease.

What our LL did though was increase the rent (which obviously we werent going to agree to).
I replied saying i was going to take it to the PRTB as it wasnt justified and that i found it ominious that this came at us at the same time we had a dispute about signing the lease.
I heard nothing back for weeks..
Eventually we seen a property wanted and decided to go for it as it just wasnt worth it.

I wasnt aware of the PSRA - I might just fill out a complaint form now!

fasttalkerchat

Interesting point, if they don't recognise Part 4 then under what contract do they expect you to pay rent? If they're treating you like you have no right to be there why are they accepting payment every month?

TheOldHand

Dublin21 wrote: »

Hi OP,

We had the exact same issue in the last few months.

We told the agency that we wished to remain in the property under P4 tenancy and we were told that the landlord refuses to let the property under these terms.

Got onto Threshold who advised us that that was incorrect.
Went back to the agency with the information Threshold gave us and they said that they did not agree with Thresholds interpretation! Joke.

If i was intent on staying in the property (or property was affected by damp so we wanted out eventually anyway) i would just refuse to sign the lease and stay at the property.
They can't just evict you for not signing another lease.

What our LL did though was increase the rent (which obviously we werent going to agree to).
I replied saying i was going to take it to the PRTB as it wasnt justified and that i found it ominious that this came at us at the same time we had a dispute about signing the lease.
I heard nothing back for weeks..
Eventually we seen a property wanted and decided to go for it as it just wasnt worth it.

I wasnt aware of the PSRA - I might just fill out a complaint form now!

Why get bullied out of your home. Pushover tenants make life hard for the rest of us as they encourage bad behaviour from scummy letting agents.

The agents want a reletting fee, I'd be surprised if the landlord even knew what was going on.

D3PO

TheOldHand wrote: »

Why get bullied out of your home. Pushover tenants make life hard for the rest of us as they encourage bad behaviour from scummy letting agents.

The agents want a reletting fee, I'd be surprised if the landlord even knew what was going on.

for once I agree with you. There must be pigs flying !!

Dublin21

I agree also.. and as said in my above post if there weren't other factors that meant we didn't want to stay at the property (mould and damp) i would have def fought it tooth and nail.
However i wasn't willing to put myself through the whole process when we prob would have moved to a better place within a few months anyway.
Best i can do at this stage is lodge a complaint with PSRA/PRTB which i am in the process of doing.

Victor

3DataModem wrote: »

It just takes three quotes from a contractor and you can have the tenant out on the "major renovations" clause.

Once the tenant leaves, the landlord can candle the "refurb" and even write to the tenant inviting them to return as the refurb had been cancelled. 95% of them won't, but the PRTB won't find against the landlord.

I think the PRTB would look long and hard at this and require it to be a bona fide renovation.

fasttalkerchat

Victor wrote: »

I think the PRTB would look long and hard at this and require it to be a bona fide renovation.

How do you get 3 contractors into a house at a mutually convenient time. If the tenant knew this was going on he could say "I work nights so the next convenient time is Sunday at 11pm". It would take weeks and a lot of money just to get the 3 assessments done.