Hugo Is Dead.

asherbassad

I will miss his speeches.
He was a great baseball player and a skilled and tough paratrooper. He also gave the wealth of his country to the weakest and the poorest of his land.
Unlike the "tough, courageous leaders" of England, Ireland, France, Greece, Spain and America"

Time to invade Venezuela now and take back everything and turn the millions back to illiterate, disease ridden suckers.

Blackbush1905

Your trying to say hugo had venezuela in a better state than those messed up EU states,of course he did , it only has the highest murder rate in the entire world- only 53 murders a day -OUTSTANDING maybe mexico can outkill us.

I suppose some of u think great model for ireland. well ur not far off - GERRY ADAMS - for president

Hes all urs although the people all around ireland arn't as silly as those niave halfwits in louth!!
Does andrea still visit often?? why else would u visit dundalk ? unless u wanted gerrys autogragh, he'll turn round in five years time and say it can't have been his autograph hes never been in dundalk in his life!

asherbassad

Blackbush1905 wrote: »

Your trying to say hugo had venezuela in a better state than those messed up EU states,of course he did , it only has the highest murder rate in the entire world- only 53 murders a day -OUTSTANDING maybe mexico can outkill us.

I suppose some of u think great model for ireland. well ur not far off - GERRY ADAMS - for president

Hes all urs although the people all around ireland arn't as silly as those niave halfwits in louth!!
Does andrea still visit often?? why else would u visit dundalk ? unless u wanted gerrys autogragh, he'll turn round in five years time and say it can't have been his autograph hes never been in dundalk in his life!

Source?

Strange because Mexico isn't even in the top 5...neither is Venezuela:

1. South Africa
2. Brazil
3. Colombia
4. Russia
5. Somalia.

So don't fcuking bull**** me......oh, and sober up, you embarrassment.

Cookie_Monster

This actually took longer than I thought to appear here.

So who allegedly poisoned him then, Obama, the CIA, maybe the Russians for a change?

Cookie_Monster

asherbassad wrote: »

Source?

Strange because Mexico isn't even in the top 5...neither is Venezuela:

1. South Africa
2. Brazil
3. Colombia
4. Russia
5. Somalia.

5th after Honduras, El Salv, Ivory Coast and Somalia at 45.1 per 100k
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country
15th by actual number

asherbassad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

5th after Honduras, El Salv, Ivory Coast and Somalia at 45.1 per 100k
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country
15th by actual number

Wikipedia is a source? It doesn't go through a clearinghouse therefore it's unreliable. But according to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crimes, South Africa, Colombia, and even Jamaica are higher. Having said that there are no figures for the last 12 years for Rwanda, Angola, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burundi, Zimbabwe, Chechnya, Sri Lanka, East Timor, Liberia, Eritrea, and a few other charming spots...so please.....do give me Wikipedia, ffs. It's like a kid giving a piece of stale Christmas cake that he found under the tree as proof of Santa's existence.

asherbassad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

This actually took longer than I thought to appear here.

So who allegedly poisoned him then, Obama, the CIA, maybe the Russians for a change?

Well the CIA have been trying to whack Fidel for years with exploding cigars and syphlyttic hookers. The Russians managed to get that guy with the polonium and Mossad/CIA poisoned Arafat. So I guess they learned a few tricks.

Blackbush1905

asherbassad wrote: »

Source?

Strange because Mexico isn't even in the top 5...neither is Venezuela:

1. South Africa
2. Brazil
3. Colombia
4. Russia
5. Somalia.

So don't fcuking bull**** me......oh, and sober up, you embarrassment.

caracas soaring murder rate set to surpass last years numbers

venezuela highest murder rate south america

The place is a ****ing nightmare, why you getting so touchy, you embwha bbwhaawhhwahh cwy baby whah wha!!

Blackbush1905

asherbassad wrote: »

Source?

Strange because Mexico isn't even in the top 5...neither is Venezuela:

1. South Africa
2. Brazil
3. Colombia
4. Russia
5. Somalia.

So don't fcuking bull**** me......oh, and sober up, you embarrassment.

What we've learnt so far

1) venezuela is extremely ****ed up

2) asherbassad is a cwyyy baby!!!

3) south africa , brazil & colombia are extremely ****ed up

4) give asherbassad some coke he cwyying his wittle eyes out bwig baby!!!

Cookie_Monster

asherbassad wrote: »

Wikipedia is a source? It doesn't go through a clearinghouse therefore it's unreliable. But according to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crimes, South Africa, Colombia, and even Jamaica are higher. Having said that there are no figures for the last 12 years for Rwanda, Angola, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burundi, Zimbabwe, Chechnya, Sri Lanka, East Timor, Liberia, Eritrea, and a few other charming spots...so please.....do give me Wikipedia, ffs. It's like a kid giving a piece of stale Christmas cake that he found under the tree as proof of Santa's existence.

as opposed to your link? Oh wait there was none.
And the chart was sourced from the UN-ODC on that page

Sacksian

Unless there's a conspiracy suggested, this thread is the wrong forum.

humanji

asherbassad wrote: »

I will miss his speeches.
He was a great baseball player and a skilled and tough paratrooper. He also gave the wealth of his country to the weakest and the poorest of his land.
Unlike the "tough, courageous leaders" of England, Ireland, France, Greece, Spain and America"

Time to invade Venezuela now and take back everything and turn the millions back to illiterate, disease ridden suckers.

Can you tell us what the conspiracy is?

Jonny7

asherbassad wrote: »

Wikipedia is a source? It doesn't go through a clearinghouse therefore it's unreliable. But according to the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crimes, South Africa, Colombia, and even Jamaica are higher. Having said that there are no figures for the last 12 years for Rwanda, Angola, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burundi, Zimbabwe, Chechnya, Sri Lanka, East Timor, Liberia, Eritrea, and a few other charming spots...so please.....do give me Wikipedia, ffs. It's like a kid giving a piece of stale Christmas cake that he found under the tree as proof of Santa's existence.

Violent crime tripled under Chavez. Wkipedia is sourced - that's where the information comes from.

www.informationclearinghouse.info is not a clearing house.

weisses

officials in Venezuela saying the US caused/gave him the Cancer

Jonny7

weisses wrote: »

officials in Venezuela saying the US caused/gave him the Cancer

Chavez came up with that theory himself, said the US was giving south American leaders cancer.

weisses

Jonny7 wrote: »

Chavez came up with that theory himself, said the US was giving south American leaders cancer.

Yeah i think it was repeated yesterday by some officials

A fine CT but not much information around on that specific case

Other then this

http://www.atam.org/KillingChavez.html

studiorat

asherbassad wrote: »

I will miss his speeches.

So much more eloquent in their native Venezulaian too.
Still I'm sure you can get them on iTunes.


So how many here would accept a leader who :
a ) Wore military uniforms.
b ) Associated with dictators.
c) Gave bizarre speeches which were a mix of the religious, nationalist and mythical. Live on a weekly on TV show.
d) Passed legislation to extend his own term in office.

Funny how people are willing to over look these little details.

Brown Bomber

studiorat wrote: »

So much more eloquent in their native Venezulaian too.
Still I'm sure you can get them on iTunes.


So how many here would accept a leader who :
a ) Wore military uniforms.
b ) Associated with dictators.
c) Gave bizarre speeches which were a mix of the religious, nationalist and mythical. Live on a weekly on TV show.
d) Passed legislation to extend his own term in office.

Funny how people are willing to over look these little details.

If I was a Venezuelan living in extreme poverty pre-Chavez and now could feed my children and get them seen by a doctor if they were ill all because of Chavez policies that seen me benefit in a small way from my nations wealth then I genuinely wouldn't give a **** about a, b, c or d.

Jonny7

studiorat wrote: »

So much more eloquent in their native Venezulaian too.
Still I'm sure you can get them on iTunes.


So how many here would accept a leader who :
a ) Wore military uniforms.
b ) Associated with dictators.
c) Gave bizarre speeches which were a mix of the religious, nationalist and mythical. Live on a weekly on TV show.
d) Passed legislation to extend his own term in office.

Funny how people are willing to over look these little details.

He was pretty anti-semitic as well

Sixtus

Jonny7 wrote: »

He was pretty anti-semitic as well

You say that like it'd be a deal breaker for some here.

Brown Bomber

charges of "anti-semitism" are often fraudelent as this forum has showun. Can you support your accusation?

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

charges of "anti-semitism" are often fraudelent as this forum has showun. Can you support your accusation?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/13/chavez-jews-referendum-opinions-contributors_0215_rowan_schoen.html

In an infamous Christmas Eve speech several years ago, Chávez said the Jews killed Christ and have been gobbling up wealth and causing poverty and injustice worldwide ever since. Chávez has declared war against the U.S.' "evil empire" and sees Israel in the same way Ahmadinejad, his partner, does.

Brown Bomber

As I was saying most accusations are fraudelent. Now pay close attention as there is a valuable lesson to be learned here.

Venezuela's Jews Defend Leftist President in Flap Over
Remarks
Venezuela's Jews Defend Leftist President in Flap
Over Remarks
By MARC PERELMAN
January 13, 2006

The Venezuelan
Jewish community leadership and several major American Jewish groups are
accusing the Simon Wiesenthal Center of rushing to judgment by charging
Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chavez, with making antisemitic remarks.


Officials of the leading organization of Venezuelan Jewry were
preparing a letter this week to the center, complaining that it had
misinterpreted Chavez's words and had failed to consult with them before
attacking the Venezuelan president.
"You have interfered in the political status, in the security, and in the well-being of our community. You have acted on your own, without consulting us, on issues that you don't know or understand," states a draft of the letter obtained by the Forward. Copies of the letter are also to be sent to the heads of the World Jewish Congress and the American Jewish Committee, among other Jewish groups.

"We believe the president was not talking about Jews and that the Jewish world must learn to work together," said Fred Pressner, president of the Confederation of Jewish Associations of Venezuela. The confederation is known by its Spanish acronym, CAIV. He added that this was the third time in recent years that the Wiesenthal center had publicly criticized Chavez without first consulting the local community.

Last week the Wiesenthal Center wrote to Chavez, demanding that he apologize for what the center said was a negative reference to Jews during a Christmas Eve speech. The center also asked the governments of Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay to "freeze the process" of incorporating Venezuela into Mercosur, a regional trade bloc, unless the Venezuelan president publicly apologizes.

In his speech, Chavez lamented that while the world had enough resources for all, "some minorities, the descendants of the same ones who crucified Christ, the descendants of the same ones who threw out [South American liberator Simon] Bolivar from here and also crucified him in a way in Santa Marta, over there in Colombia — a minority took possession of all the planet's gold, of the silver, the minerals, the waters, the good land, the oil, the riches, and they have concentrated the riches in a few hands. Less than 10% of the world's population possesses over half of the world's riches, and more than half of the planet's population is poor, and every day there are more poor in the world."

Both the AJCommittee and the American Jewish Congress seconded the Venezuelan community's view that Chavez's comments were not aimed at Jews. All three groups said he was aiming his barbs at the white oligarchy that has dominated the region since the colonial era, pointing to his reference to Bolivar as the clearest evidence of his intent.

One official noted that Latin America's so-called Liberation Theology has long depicted Jesus as a socialist and consequently speaks of gentile business elites as "Christ-killers."

http://www.embavenez-us.org/news.php?nid=2227

Jonny7

Brown Bomber wrote: »

charges of "anti-semitism" are often fraudelent as this forum has showun. Can you support your accusation?

Well someone who is racist or specifically anti-semitic is rarely stupid enough to be fully open about it. Especially the leader of a country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Venezuela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Allegations_of_antisemitism

About half the Venezuelan Jewish community has left since he came to power.

A lot in common with some conspiracy theorists actually, US government to blame for everything and an obsession with one tiny country half way round the world

Brown Bomber

charges of "anti-semitism" are often fraudelent as this forum has showun. Can
you support your accusation??

>>>

Jonny7 wrote: »

Well someone who is racist or specifically anti-semitic is rarely stupid enough to be fully open about it. Especially the leader of a country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Venezuela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Allegations_of_antisemitism

About half the Venezuelan Jewish community has left since he came to power.

A lot in common with some conspiracy theorists actually, US government to blame for everything and an obsession with one tiny country half way round the world

... so that'll be a no then. What a surprise. Kinda was hoping you would have heeded the words of the Venezuelan Jews as they apply to you "You have acted on your own, without consulting us, on issues that you don't know or understand,"

And FYI actual racists are generally open about it as they see nothing wrong with it.

Jonny7

Brown Bomber wrote: »

>>>

... so that'll be a no then. What a surprise. Kinda was hoping you would have heeded the words of the Venezuelan Jews as they apply to you "You have acted on your own, without consulting us, on issues that you don't know or understand,"

I personally think he was an anti-Semite, and I've followed him since he came to power.

His obsession with Israel, for a South American leader, was bizarre to say the least. It really took the biscuit when he start forging such close relations with Iran.

I posted the wiki links, people can read the sources and make up their own minds.

And FYI actual racists are generally open about it as they see nothing wrong with it.

Can't figure out if you genuinely believe some of this stuff you write, or you genuinely think no one can see through it.

I work in a large very multi-cultural environment, I go out drinking with people and am friends with people who turn out to be the biggest Jew-haters or racists on the planet - I couldn't give a damn - but they certainly aren't open about it, especially not in any professional sense, they are not that dumb.

humanji

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If I was a Venezuelan living in extreme poverty pre-Chavez and now could feed my children and get them seen by a doctor if they were ill all because of Chavez policies that seen me benefit in a small way from my nations wealth then I genuinely wouldn't give a **** about a, b, c or d.

So now we know that you'll give away you're freedom, we just have to haggle on the price.

Brown Bomber

Jonny7 wrote: »

I personally think he was an anti-Semite, and I've followed him since he came to power.

Then you should have no problem explaining your reasoning behind your accusation then.

Jonny7 wrote: »

His obsession with Israel, for a South American leader, was bizarre to say the least.

You seem to be confusing an "obsession" with having the balls to speak out against Israeli atrocities such as in Lebanon, Palestine, and the flotilla massacre.

Would you prefer if he was pussy-whipped by the Zionist lobby like the spineless cretin you worship Obama who stays silent while innocent people (including US citizens) are being massacred?

Jonny7 wrote: »

It really took the biscuit when he start forging such close relations with Iran.

Eh what?
Why shouldn't he have mutually beneficial "close relations" with Iran? What has Iran ever done to Venezuela?

Jonny7 wrote: »

Can't figure out if you genuinely believe some of this stuff you write, or you genuinely think no one can see through it.

Doesn't surprise me at all tbh. There are many things you can't figure out such as how can the US be fighting Al Qaeda and be allied with them at the same time.

Jonny7 wrote: »

I work in a large very multi-cultural environment, I go out drinking with people and am friends with people who turn out to be the biggest Jew-haters or racists on the planet - I couldn't give a damn - but they certainly aren't open about it, especially not in any professional sense, they are not that dumb.

That settles it so. Meanwhile,

Brown Bomber

humanji wrote: »

So now we know that you'll give away you're freedom, we just have to haggle on the price.

Freedom??? You haven't met my wife"

asherbassad

Blackbush1905 wrote: »

caracas soaring murder rate set to surpass last years numbers

venezuela highest murder rate south america

The place is a ****ing nightmare, why you getting so touchy, you embwha bbwhaawhhwahh cwy baby whah wha!!

So now it's the obligation of us all to invade a country that has a high murder rate?
Do you have comparitive figures for Kiev or Windhoeke or Bogata?
Or do you even know where these places are? Strange that everyone is so concerned with the murder rate in a place that they've tried to control for almost 2 decades.
Strange that people are so inculcated with the human rights issues in a place that (alongside Iceland) is the most democratic society in history.

So strange.

asherbassad

Blackbush1905 wrote: »

What we've learnt so far

1) venezuela is extremely ****ed up

2) asherbassad is a cwyyy baby!!!

3) south africa , brazil & colombia are extremely ****ed up

4) give asherbassad some coke he cwyying his wittle eyes out bwig baby!!!

That was good.

Jonny7

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You seem to be confusing an "obsession" with having the balls to speak out against Israeli atrocities such as in Lebanon, Palestine, and the flotilla massacre.

It's an obsession. Massacre's and oppression and human rights violations do happen outside of Israel and the occupied territories. Difficult to comprehend for some but there you go.

Chavez spent a large proportion of his tenure blaming the US bogeyman for virtually everything, couldn't even comment on Tibet without doing so and had a strong emotionally invested obsession with a small country half-way around the world.

Can you imagine Enda Kenny getting up and making endless speeches on the Kashmir situation and attacking China at every opportunity?

No, because its ridiculous stuff. Chavez needs no excuses. I respect some of the man's policies but much of his political bluster was just that.. bluster and it certainly won't be missed.

studiorat

Brown Bomber wrote: »

If I was a Venezuelan living in extreme poverty pre-Chavez and now could feed my children and get them seen by a doctor if they were ill all because of Chavez policies that seen me benefit in a small way from my nations wealth then I genuinely wouldn't give a **** about a, b, c or d.

In 2009 their power industry all but collapsed. With the population facing daily power rations.

State companies were politicized both healthcare and the oil industries to the extent of "support Chavez or loose your job".

20,000 workers were fired for going on strike in 2003.

"[Its] workers are with this revolution, and those who aren't should go somewhere else. Go to Miami."

Yet their payroll nearly doubled, Chavez supporters to a man I'd bet.

Oil production dropped by 25%. This is an oil company which has been nationalized since 1976. I don't know where the whole story of Chavez nationalizing the oil came from. In fact the collapse of the oil prices was instrumental in him coming in to power.

So I'd be highly dubious about exactly how much people's lives have improved according to their media. I would think it would be somewhere in the middle. And I certainly wouldn't give Chavez as much credit for it as people would like to think he deserves.

studiorat

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's an obsession.
Can you imagine Enda Kenny getting up and making endless speeches on the Kashmir situation and attacking China at every opportunity?

If he blamed Zionists for the recession and the weather he'd probably be doing very well in the opinion polls.

Brown Bomber

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's an obsession. Massacre's and oppression and human rights violations do happen outside of Israel and the occupied territories. Difficult to comprehend for some but there you go.

Chavez spent a large proportion of his tenure blaming the US bogeyman for virtually everything, couldn't even comment on Tibet without doing so and had a strong emotionally invested obsession with a small country half-way around the world.

Can you imagine Enda Kenny getting up and making endless speeches on the Kashmir situation and attacking China at every opportunity?

No, because its ridiculous stuff. Chavez needs no excuses. I respect some of the man's policies but much of his political bluster was just that.. bluster and it certainly won't be missed.

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out in the strongest terms against the smassace of unarmed civilians in international waters?

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out in the strongest terms against Israels policy of punishing civilians in Lebanon in 2006 with the Dahiya Doctrine?

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out against Israel's brutal illegal occupation of Gaza?

How is this "anti-semitism">>> ""I think it is anti-semitism">>> "bluster"

Where is the "anti-semitism"? Do you even know what anti-semitism is? How is having relations with Iran anti-semitic? The hundred plus states of the non-alligned movement unaminously supports Iran's right to enrichment.

Jonny7

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out in the strongest terms against the smassace of unarmed civilians in international waters?

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out in the strongest terms against Israels policy of punishing civilians in Lebanon in 2006 with the Dahiya Doctrine?

Are you saying that Chavez shouldn't have spoken out against Israel's brutal illegal occupation of Gaza?

How is this "anti-semitism">>> ""I think it is anti-semitism">>> "bluster"

Where is the "anti-semitism"? Do you even know what anti-semitism is? How is having relations with Iran anti-semitic? The hundred plus states of the non-alligned movement unaminously supports Iran's right to enrichment.

He compared some of those events to the Holocaust, he made comments that their actions were worse than the Nazi's and that the state of Israel ("murderous" "terrorist" "genocidal" were among his favorite adjectives) was trying to kill him. Israel eventually just cut all ties with Venezuela over this and other issues.

That's not international criticism, that's obsession.

BloodBath

This is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.

It's old but documents the coup of 2002 and is made by Irish film makers.

It shows how easily the media can manipulate the public and also points to possible CIA involvement in the coup.

Jonny7

BloodBath wrote: »

This is well worth a watch if you haven't seen it yet.

It's old but documents the coup of 2002 and is made by Irish film makers.

It shows how easily the media can manipulate the public and also points to possible CIA involvement in the coup.

As can documentaries. Often happens that the film-makers show only one side of the story. Exercise skepticism with both is probably best policy.

WakeUp

Jonny7 wrote: »

Chavez came up with that theory himself, said the US was giving south American leaders cancer.

Since 2005 a number of south American leaders have been diagnosed with cancer I remember reading something about what you are saying here have had to google their names couldnt remember them they are Chavez obviously former Brazilian leader Lula da Silva the current Brazilian leader Dilma Rousseff, Fernando Lugo in Paraguy, Castro in Cuba and Christina de Kirchner in Argentina she had her thyroid removed after being diagnosed with cancer then after it was removed the diagnosis was changed and the statements from the government conflicting bit of a strange one that.

If there is a conspiracy and somebody is making certain leaders in South America sick and they are somehow linked the only reason I could think of is that it has something to do with Mercosur, Southern common market. The permanent members are Argentina,Brazil,Paraguy,Uruguay and Venezula. Dont think theres anything wrong with the leader of Uruguay though. Uruguay would be the most pro US out of the five. When Venezula joined up Chavez brought his anti US agenda with him and had all sorts of ideas one of them being attempting to set up a Mercosur bank as an alternative to the world bank. I dunno though im just speculating cause I cant sleep:)

Certain types of cancer can be caused by viruses it isnt beyond the realm of imagination to believe it possible to be "weaponised" in some way but would be impossible to prove if someone did do something like that to Chavez. And then you would have to think about how they got to him. That leader in Ukraine was poisoned with dioxin such black ops do happen I think but in the case of Chavez impossible to prove. I hope to god some demented kunt hasnt figured out how to weaponise cancer though theres a reasonable enough chance that someone somewhere already has. nice one.

Brown Bomber

Jonny7 wrote: »

He compared some of those events to the Holocaust,.

a) source?
b) so?

Jonny7 wrote: »

he made comments that their actions were worse than the Nazi's

a) source?
b)so?

Jonny7 wrote: »

and that the state of Israel ("murderous" "terrorist" "genocidal" were among his favorite adjectives) was trying to kill him..

a) source
b) so
c) Israeli is murderous, terrorist and genocidal

Jonny7 wrote: »

srael eventually just cut all ties with Venezuela over this and other issues.

a) source
b) I believe you are mistaken. Venuzuela was the one who dumped Israel due to their flagrant human rights abuses, crimes against humanity and war crimes committed against the civililan population of Gaza during Castlead.

Jonny7

"Israel criticizes Hitler a lot, so do we, but they've done something very similar, even worse, than what the Nazis did" - in Iran 2006

(on Israel) "going mad and inflicting on the people of Palestine and Lebanon the same thing they have criticized, and with reason: the Holocaust. But this is a new Holocaust" - 2006, morning show "Aló Presidente"

"They are doing what Hitler did against the Jews" - Chavez to Al Jazeera, 2006

"The Holocaust, that is what is happening right now in Gaza…" - Chavez speech 2009, From Venezuela to Gaza

(on Israel) "the assassin arm of the United States" and "one day the genocidal state of Israel will be put into its place" - when visiting Syria's Assad 2010