"Supporting" Politics like supporting a Football team. Am I wrong?

Allyall

There is a massive probability i will say this arseways, as i've had a few. But isn't that when some of the best discussions start?

I have a big problem with people who "support" Fianna Fail/Fine Gael/Labour/Green Party/Sinn Fein etc.. (Apologies to whichever parties i may have left out)

You shouldn't vote for a team/party that you have inherited, or decided to. You should vote for the best person for the job.
All that aside, with todays technology, surely we should no longer be voting for parties every X amount of years?

Many people will say they don't, but in general, Irish people vote with their heart, (need i explain?) Not their head.

How hard could it be to set up a system, that allows us to kick out someone we believe that may only be there for the benefits. Okay, i know electronic voting is out, but we could vote as low down as local council. If a local councillor is doing nothing after X amount of time - Kick them out.

Right now, we need them to be working for us. I don't have time to be waiting for some D***k***d to decide nothing.

After all, if we support them like football teams, then why not treat them like football managers. If they can't do the F-ing job, get out.
I would hate to know i have employed somebody, find out that they are incompetent, and cannot get rid of them for five years..

This is not politics, it's common sense in the present.

We are still adhering to politics the way they were in the 1800's (or earlier).

Enough. I have half made my point, it's good enough for me. Am i wrong? Should we not be allowed to kick useless people out of government quicker than we currently are able?

E.G. Local Councillor = Useless, Local people vote them out. Next in line takes over. If they useless also, --> out.

I need my mess fixed as efficiently as possible. I don't have time to waste on idiots, nor do i have the patience. They are voted in as my boss, and are doing a worse job than Roy Keane did at Ipswich.


(Too long to read? don't reply.)

It's something that has been bugging me for a long time, i decided, while drunk, to get some of it out there.

DrumSteve

People in Ireland generally voted along civil war lines for years (and a lot still do).

However a lot of people these days will vote for the candidate they think is best,hence FF writing their party logo in really really small letters so people wont know they are affiliated.

Agricola

Let me help you.

TLDR: Same tired old shìt / statements of the obvious you've seen a thousand times before. Im drunk too btw, fair play to me.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

In the past, yes, but i think things have changed but not nessecairly for the better.

Allyall

Agricola wrote: »

Let me help you.

TLDR: Same tired old shìt / statements of the obvious you've seen a thousand times before. Im drunk too btw, fair play to me.

People didn't want Fianna Fail in again, so they said.. NOOOOOoooooooooo!!!

Voted in this crowd (Who i don't blame entirely, nor do i have SO many grievances with.)

BUT..

Should we not be able to change individuals, to make something that works? In THIS day and age?

Surely we no longer have to wait a term? That was the way back in 1684, or 1486, or 1864.. You get my point.

I get disgusted when i hear people saying "Fianna Fail all the way", or "Fine Gael are my bunch" etc.. Et F-ing cetera.


And we think we are an intelligent race..

Ruudi_Mentari

St. P olitic?

southsiderosie

Allyall wrote: »

BUT..

Should we not be able to change individuals, to make something that works? In THIS day and age?

Why do you think that changing individuals would make a difference? With the whip system, it doesn't matter what the individual says, the party will vote in lockstep. This is one of the fundamental problems of Irish politics: people often vote at an individual level (which makes sense with the STV system), but there is not individual voting in the Dail. Personally I think that Ireland would be better off with a national list system like the Dutch, especially since it is such a small country - but who would fix the potholes then? :rolleyes:

brummytom

What do you mean 'the best person for the job'?

I know, essentially, we elect individuals to represent us as a constituency, but you also have to vote based on that person (and their party)'s politics stance/ideology. People don't agree on those things, and they will influence whether they see a person as being the most preferable (more often that not, the least shit) choice.

But yeah, it does seem somewhat archaic that once people are voted in, we're stuck with them for 4/5 years. That's the problem with morons voting though.

Allyall

southsiderosie wrote: »

Why do you think that changing individuals would make a difference?

Because maybe there are better people suited for the job..

southsiderosie wrote: »

With the whip system,it doesn't matter what the individual says, the party will vote in lockstep. This is one of the fundamental problems of Irish politics: people often vote at an individual level (which makes sense with the STV system), but there is not individual voting in the Dail. Personally I think that Ireland would be better off with a national list system like the Dutch, especially since it is such a small country - but who would fix the potholes then? :rolleyes:

If these are the fundamental problems, then why do we take it?

I don't know about the whip system, or the STv system.

I'll employ people to fix the potholes, somebody that can, if that's what it takes.

fasttalkerchat

I would say that now the old civil war lines are faded and people will be afraid to vote SF so will continue to swing between FF and FG... occasionally mixing it up with a Green/Labour coalition.
May as well flip a coin for it.

im invisible

Allyall wrote: »

I get disgusted when i hear people saying "Fianna Fail all the way", or "Fine Gael are my bunch" etc.. Et F-ing cetera.

oh but they don't, not on this site i find anyway, they slag off the other side, and give out, and call names, while spewing some shíte about voting for "the best candidate" or some shíte like that...
fúckin' blueshirts

Allyall

brummytom wrote: »

What do you mean 'the best person for the job'?

I mean, if a person gets voted in, and becomes minister for "xxxxxxxxx" - and they are no good at it, in fact, useless, then get rid of them..

brummytom wrote: »

I know, essentially, we elect individuals to represent us as a constituency, but you also have to vote based on that person (and their party)'s politics stance/ideology. People don't agree on those things, and they will influence whether they see a person as being the most preferable (more often that not, the least shit) choice.

But yeah, it does seem somewhat archaic that once people are voted in, we're stuck with them for 4/5 years. That's the problem with morons voting though.

Why? Can we not agree they were possibly the wrong person, especially after they've been appointed in some position they are undoubtedly not suited for.. (HAve quite a few in mind, both past and present).

im invisible wrote: »

oh but they don't, not on this site i find anyway, they slag off the other side, and give out, and call names, while spewing some shíte about voting for "the best candidate" or some shíte like that...
fúckin' blueshirts

This site takes up a grand total of possibly 0.05% of the population

im invisible

Allyall wrote: »

This site takes up a grand total of possibly 0.05% of the population

fair enough, but i try to keep away from talking about politics and religion in polite company, or even having cans with the lads...

Allyall

im invisible wrote: »

fair enough, but i try to keep away from talking about politics and religion in polite company, or even having cans with the lads...

Me too... I thought this should go in the "common sense" category..

I'm drunk, i'm going to bed..


It'll fix itself.. (Apparently)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Allyall wrote: »

I mean, if a person gets voted in, and becomes minister for "xxxxxxxxx" - and they are no good at it, in fact, useless, then get rid of them..

Therein lies the problem: what qualifies you to be "good" as a politician? Making the decision that will be the best course of action? Or making the decision that suits me personally regardless of what the **** it means for everyone else?

Why? Can we not agree they were possibly the wrong person, especially after they've been appointed in some position they are undoubtedly not suited for.. (HAve quite a few in mind, both past and present).

Again, why do we elect people? To make "good" decisions (see above)? If brummytom is right, then do we want a spineless wimp who will say waht i want him to say, irrespective of the consequences? If we vote according to party, then we are more likely to get someone who will say what we want said, but that might not be the best choice.

This site takes up a grand total of possibly 0.05% of the population

He has a point: a fairly accurate party slogan would be "look - we're ****, we know we're ****, but we're not as **** as the other party."

southsiderosie

Allyall wrote: »

I don't know about the whip system, or the STv system.

Look, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but you're on here whinging about legislators and don't even know how the legislature works? Or the voting system?

Do you really expect to get politicians who know how to 'do their jobs' if large swathes of the voting public (assuming you are somewhat representative) don't really know how the system to vote them into office works and/or have no sense of what actually goes on in the Dail? Do you think you have a 'job' as a citizen to be informed about the process?

Zebra3

Two major problems in Irish politics.

Too much local issues diminate how poltiticans in our national parliament work.

Ordinary people vote for right-wing parties who despise them.