Just how doped up are soccer players? Irish rugby's doping past and present?

CaoimH_in

From The Huffington Post:

Posted: 13/02/2013

"It is a subject that I prefer to ignore"

-Vicente Del Bosque, Spanish national football team coach.

It's been a long time coming, but cycling may finally be shifted to the outside lane of public doping scandals. The revelations that may come out of the on-going Operation Puerto doping trial, should the judge permit it, could be a devastating blow for the legitimacy of some of the world's most famous athletes. Alongside concurrent allegations made by a former Real Socieded chairman that the Spanish club were fully paid-up members to the blood-doping regime of the man at the center of that investigation, Dr Eufemiano Fuentes, football in particular looks to be on far from solid ground. It may be now or never for the football world, and other sports outside of cycling, to face up to its demons.

Whether directly football related or some other moral issue surrounding the game, there's little subject matter that the modern football fan has not debated. A prevailing topic is the suppositional death of the 'old fashioned full-blooded tackle', yet the one thing football discussion hasn't tackled itself is the continuing existence of one of football's other old-time traditions: doping. Football indeed has its own sordid history when it comes to doping, the problem has always been there, hidden in plain sight.

.....

In more modern times, numerous high profile players in nearly all of Europe's top leagues have served drugs bans, and one of the continents superpowers, Juventus, was found guilty in 2002 in an Italian court of systematic EPO use during one of the most successful periods in the clubs history. Johnny Hallyday, a French pop star, claimed in a TV interview in 2006 that he "kept himself young" by visiting a Swiss clinic for "blood oxidation treatment", on the recommendation of one of the Juventus players. Hallyday continued to claim that he believed Zidane visited the clinic for the treatment himself "one or two times a year". Hallyday said the procedure involved "drawing out the blood, and the re-oxygenating it".

The problem has been one of public perception. Incredibly, it has never wavered from anything other than apathetic. Records are destroyed, "superhuman" players are rightly lauded, and the possibility of high-profile players doping simply never enters the public consciousness.

........

Even with the feeble procedures in place to catch blood-dopers, we have still found some, and that may tell us something about how widespread the practice may be. A reminder here that Lance Armstrong never failed a dope test of any kind. Jean-Jacques Edelie, former Marseille midfielder, claimed that "all players, except a furious Rudi Voller, at Marseille took a series of injections before games" and that the practice of doping "took place in all but one of the clubs I played for". Indeed, the midfielder even claimed that on the eve of the Champions League final with AC Milan, the club president, Bernard Tapie, demanded all the players took a banned susbtance. They formed a line, except Rudi Voller, who apprently was beside himself with rage at Tapie. The only Marseille player to ever test positive for a banned substance was Christophe Dugarry.

A brief listing of just some of the higher profile cases brings wonderment that football authorities have done so little to tackle the problem of doping. Not even the systematic and highly evolved doping system of the Germans in the 50s, 60s and 70s and 80s, the Juventus EPO scandal, or the recent bans for players in the limelight such as Edgar Davids, Frank De Boer, Fernando Couto, Jaap Stam, Diego Maradona were enough. Meanwhile, Matias Almeyda alleges Parma were doping him covertly and former French u-21 coach accuses France '98 squad of having highly suspect blood test results. Arsene Wenger has claimed blood tests from players signed from clubs in Europe show clear signs of blood doping, and still, eyebrows in Nyon and Zurich stay firmly at their default height.

As a fan of cycling, and a cyclist, it annoys me no end when people assume mine is the only sport with a doping history. When it's clearly the case that most other sports have as big a problem. It's really the pot calling the kettle black. This is a brilliant and informative essay on doping in soccer, but there are other sports too: of course there are.

Here's another article on rugby, it concerns Irish legends too:

Posted: circa '98

From The Irish Echo:

Drugs in track and field, drugs in cycling, drugs in swimming, but never in Irish rugby. Never, that is, until last week when former international Neil Francis blew the whistle on a sport that didn’t want to see or hear any anabolic evil.

Francis’s startling revelations in the Sunday Tribune that some members of the Ireland squad had been taking performance enhancing drugs since 1988 were initially met with a mixture of outrage and indignation by the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) which went on the offensive and challenged Francis to name names.

But now Francis has continued his exposure of a previously hidden problem by writing of three players who he is sure have taken anabolic steroids. A medical consultant has also dramatically revealed that he has treated as many as 10 Irish players for the side-effects of steroid abuse, one of whom "may not reach is 38th birthday."

While the unnamed consultant has agreed to share his information in general terms with the IRFU, he is keeping the names of his patients confidential. He claims to have treated the players for various ailments such as peptic ulcers, severe penile dysfunction, blood clots and liver and heart conditions

.......

With the rebuttals of Neil Francis’s claims still hot in the air, a sheepish IRFU was forced to reveal that yes, it had a positive test from the Five Nations and by the way, there were also two previous positive tests as well.

SO, who were the players? And after what matches had they been tested? The IRFU scheduled a media conference which at times descended into farce as the union’s beleaguered president, Noel Murphy, and its secretary, pleaded confidentiality about more or less everything to do with the positive tests.

The IRFU insisted that the player who was exonerated last season wouldn’t be named and it also insisted that because the two other cases had gone before an Independent Drugs Tribunal, they couldn’t be discussed either.

Even though other sports, for the sake of transparency, name athletes who fail doping controls and then either punish or exonerate them, the IRFU has decided to plead the Fifth.

But what has emerged is an appalling catalog of mis-management. For example, the IRFU does not have a list of its players who have been tested since doping controls were introduced into rugby in the 1980s. There is no out-of-competition testing, no testing at club level and several of the current international squad have never been tested.

......

But, no it doesn't stop there either. Anyone for tennis? A great amount of resources there on the topic.

I've grown to respect cycling hugely in recent times. I feel as a fan, informed, respected, and, genuinely impressed by real talent. Something like Christian Vande Velde's amazing stage 20 of the 2012 Giro D'Italia. (See anti-doping team Garmin-Sharp unquestionably "clean" status. Even Kimmage agrees: not easily done, as Sky have found). I would love to see more discussion on the doping practices in EVERY elite level sport. What do you think? Would you feel more respected as a fan? Spending all that money supporting a team/athlete and they not even willing to treat you as a human? Would you prefer to see your sport's doping underbelly?

I hope this pricks your interests anyway. Check out the Biological Passport too, see what it does, how it changed cycling, and athletics. It could certainly change your sport.

Lapin

CaoimH_in wrote: »

pricks

Welcome to AH !

Wabbit Ears

Like seriously, a few years at the top of their game but the same half dozen have been playing Rugby for ireland for my entire adult life....That cant be right..

The_Kew_Tour

Drugs is rife in rugby and football is not totally clean either.

FIFA need get act together. But won't hold my breath.

Every sport has its cheats though.

CaoimH_in

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

... and football is not totally clean either.

Read article.

The_Kew_Tour

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Read article.

I gave read dozens of them over the years. It's side of sport I have interest in.

IM0

professional sport = using performance enchancing drugs for advantage, if there is money in being a professional in it then you can be sure drugs are rife there football *cough*

TheOldHand

You get drugs in rugby but only in the low junior levels.

citrus burst

I'd say doping in most top level sports is a lot more prevalent then most people would believe. Arsene Wenger did an interview recently on the topic and claimed that professional football is rife with cheats. Its an interesting topic, that will probably come to surface sooner rather than later as to the extent of doping in professional sports. It will raise a lot of moral issues depending on what/if athletes are found to be doping and what substances they are taking.

Blatter

I started a thread on this in the soccer forum last month.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83059475

CaoimH_in

Blatter wrote: »

I started a thread on this in the soccer forum last month.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83059475

Excellent work!

Chucky the tree

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Like seriously, a few years at the top of their game but the same half dozen have been playing Rugby for ireland for my entire adult life....That cant be right..

That's probably more down to **** managers.

The_Kew_Tour

TheOldHand wrote: »

You get drugs in rugby but only in the low junior levels.

* not sure if serious

kupus

WAAAA my sport is full of drugs but look at the sports. Its not fair I tells you.

Clean up your own sport then start pointing fingers,
Sorry OP I just hate that mentality.

TheOldHand

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

* not sure if serious

I'm serious. You get the odd juiceheads playing juniour rugby (adults playing in lower leagues). It doesn't win you matches.

I think it would be too much of a risk for somebody to cheat in the pro game. There isn't the same sort of win at all costs mentality either.

The_Kew_Tour

TheOldHand wrote: »

I'm serious. You get the odd juiceheads playing juniour rugby (adults playing in lower leagues). It doesn't win you matches.

I think it would be too much of a risk for somebody to cheat in the pro game. There isn't the same sort of win at all costs mentality either.

Brian Carney was on off the ball couple weeks ago on this subject.

He said otherwise.

You can get it on podcast I say or google it.

One Irish player stood out like sore thumb in his description of what they may look like after abusing PED

IM0

TheOldHand wrote: »

I'm serious. You get the odd juiceheads playing juniour rugby (adults playing in lower leagues). It doesn't win you matches.

I think it would be too much of a risk for somebody to cheat in the pro game. There isn't the same sort of win at all costs mentality either.

oh the naivety is strong in this one.. :cool:

TheOldHand

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Brian Carney was on off the ball couple weeks ago on this subject.

He said otherwise.

You can get it on podcast I say or google it.

One Irish player stood out like sore thumb in his description of what they may look like after abusing PED

Rugby League. Very different game culturally. He also said he doesn't believe there is any abuse happening in the pro game here.

Chucky the tree

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

One Irish player stood out like sore thumb in his description of what they may look like after abusing PED

Who?

The_Kew_Tour

TheOldHand wrote: »

Rugby League. Very different game culturally. He also said he doesn't believe there is any abuse happening in the pro game here.

He did say there was major problem in Union and he stressed it was everywhere.

The_Kew_Tour

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Who?

I be opening up can of worms for myself if I named him, but you only have to listen to it and if you know what each player looks like it be obvious.

Franticfrank

Nothing will change in football. If its ever revealed the sports's top athletes are on drugs, Blatter, Platini and the rest of them will loose a s**tload of money. Look how long its taking to introduce goal line technology, something that'll make football fairer. The people in charge don't care about fairness or drug testing, they just want financial gain.

blue note

I actually reckon it has been rife in golf for years. They only introduced testing in 2006 - sure why would players not get that added edge?

The_Kew_Tour

blue note wrote: »

I actually reckon it has been rife in golf for years. They only introduced testing in 2006 - sure why would players not get that added edge?

There was always speculation about Tiger Woods after he beat Mediate in 08 US Open as to why he suddenly took months out because of knee injury just as Drug testing came into effect.

Again you only have to Google and you get more speculation.

Im not saying he did and no proof whatsoever. It's not fair to blame somebody unless proven.

But I guess once you see bodies on certain sportspeople there are always a few where you stop and think how.

Phill Ewinn

HGH and PEDs in darts, or in tiddleywinks?

Giruilla

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I be opening up can of worms for myself if I named him, but you only have to listen to it and if you know what each player looks like it be obvious.

Is there a rule about speculating on people on this forum or something? Doesn't seem to stop it happening with numerous other threads on boards.

In a sport like soccer where doping can give you a massive advantage, with the rewards being so big, and the risk being apparently so low.. I can't see doping being anything but rife in the sport.

I think doping is there in any sport that offers a substantial financial reward. It's just human nature to take risks for reward.
I believe Tennis is another sport filled with juice heads. You know what Serena Williams did when a drugs tester called around for an unscheduled test in 2011... locked herself in her panic room :rolleyes:

ColeTrain

Football is skill orientated whereas cycling is more endurance, so naturally there will be more cheats there.

Dravokivich

Giruilla wrote: »

Is there a rule about speculating on people on this forum or something? Doesn't seem to stop it happening with numerous other threads on boards.

Defamation. The stuff posted earlier in this thread naming names, is copied from Articles. If a poster was to add to speculation, but providing their own opinions, it can be considered slander without the details/investigation/results to back it up.

Giruilla

ColeTrain wrote: »

Football is skill orientated whereas cycling is more endurance, so naturally there will be more cheats there.

The simplistic way of viewing things which is the reason everyone can't see how rife other sports are with doping..

ColeTrain

Giruilla wrote: »

The simplistic way of viewing things which is the reason everyone can't see how rife other sports are with doping..

It's simplistic probably because it's true.

Either you have it as a pro footballer or not. All the 'roids in the world won't make you a better player, it might make you quicker but won't improve your technique on the ball which is what it's all about.

No coincidence that doping is mostly found athletic/endurance sports.

Giruilla

ColeTrain wrote: »

Either you have it as a pro footballer or not. All the 'roids in the world won't make you a better player, it might make you quicker but won't improve your technique on the ball which is what it's all about.

Are you talking about 5 a side football? Or 11 a side football where players are required to continuously make 50 to 100 metre sprints over 90 minutes?

IM0

ColeTrain wrote: »

It's simplistic probably because it's true.

Either you have it as a pro footballer or not. All the 'roids in the world won't make you a better player, it might make you quicker but won't improve your technique on the ball which is what it's all about.

No coincidence that doping is mostly found athletic/endurance sports.

wrong just plain wrong, thats actually my full arguement, which is about as good as yours so


edit: Giruilla summed it up nicely just there!

dango

ColeTrain wrote: »

It's simplistic probably because it's true.

Either you have it as a pro footballer or not. All the 'roids in the world won't make you a better player, it might make you quicker but won't improve your technique on the ball which is what it's all about.

No coincidence that doping is mostly found athletic/endurance sports.

But PEDs will decrease recovery times allowing much higher levels of performance over longer periods of time. Your argument is pretty much completely invalid.

ColeTrain

Giruilla wrote: »

Are you talking about 5 a side football? Or 11 a side football where players are required to continuously make 50 to 100 metre sprints over 90 minutes?

A professional footballer doesn't need steroids to play at the top level. Ask John Hartson.

pickarooney

I don't really care what drugs they're taking, to be honest.

IM0

ColeTrain wrote: »

A professional footballer doesn't need steroids to play at the top level. Ask John Hartson.

it has become clear you know next to **** all about what doping is, and thats being kind!

ColeTrain

dango wrote: »

But PEDs will decrease recovery times allowing much higher levels of performance over longer periods of time. Your argument is pretty much completely invalid.

At most teams will play 2 games a week. Are you honestly telling me there's a need for them to dope to get through it? Every top club has sports scientists working with players, putting them on programmes. I find it hard to believe a professional player would take the risk of doping when it's not needed.
I'm not saying everyone in the game is clean but comparing it to cycling is too much.

ColeTrain

IM0 wrote: »

it has become clear you know next to **** all about what doping is, and thats being kind!

I'll take that as a compliment.
What are you juiced up on? Does it send you into fits of rage?

ColeTrain

ju1cesambo101 wrote: »

PLAY 2 games a week..

What about training and preparation for these games

I have been training natural in football,rugby and bodybuilding the last 8 years and one thing i have learnt is all that cardio it is next to impossible to even maintain muscle mass naturally and my genetics are somewhat decent aswell

all the protein and sleep in the world wouldn't help you recover naturally

It's their job to recover fron them. They wouldn't be working a job like us or playing rugby at the same time. They have access to world class facilities, physios, dietitians and sports scientists. That's got to make it easier.

dango

If you're getting paid €30,000+ per week, you'd want to be as close to 100% every single time you go out on the pitch. I think you're underestimating how fatiguing it is playing at that level regularly and the intensity of fitness training between matches that is required for such output. So it is needed to compete with everyone else and nobody seems to be taking it too seriously so the risk factor doesn't seem so large for what is a significant pay off.

IM0

ColeTrain wrote: »

I'll take that as a compliment.
What are you juiced up on? Does it send you into fits of rage?

orange juice

this is an in joke im not expecting anyone to get here

ColeTrain

dango wrote: »

If you're getting paid €30,000+ per week, you'd want to be as close to 100% every single time you go out on the pitch. I think you're underestimating how fatiguing it is playing at that level regularly and the intensity of fitness training between matches that is required for such output. So it is needed to compete with everyone else and nobody seems to be taking it too seriously so the risk factor doesn't seem so large for what is a significant pay off.

A contract is usually between 3-5 yrs. So if caught doping then your contract would be terminated and your reputation ruined. It would be a huge risk to take.

IM0 wrote: »

orange juice

this is an in joke im not expecting anyone to get here

Has to be OJ Simpson

Giruilla

ColeTrain wrote: »

A contract is usually between 3-5 yrs. So if caught doping then your contract would be terminated and your reputation ruined. It would be a huge risk to take.

What if it was your employers who were doping you?

dango

A number of football players have been caught taking PEDs and all they have gotten is a slap on the wrist. No real disincentive.

longhalloween

Judging by their performance in the Euros and World Cup Qualifiers, not drugged up enough!

ColeTrain

Giruilla wrote: »

What if it was your employers who were doping you?

Like Lance? I don't see the comparison. It would be one almighty risk for a football club to take.

dango wrote: »

A number of football players have been caught taking PEDs and all they have gotten is a slap on the wrist. No real disincentive.

I honestly can't remember any recent cases. Any examples?

JoeyJJ

Rife according the Richards Sadler, was a decent enough docu by channel 4.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/last-nights-tv-the-truth-about-drugs-in-football-26771024.html

Giruilla

ColeTrain wrote: »

Like Lance? I don't see the comparison.

No not like Lance, like Real Sociedad.

ColeTrain wrote: »

It would be one almighty risk for a football club to take.

Why, wheres the risk for them if they know testing isn't being done for that drug?

ColeTrain wrote: »

I honestly can't remember any recent cases. Any examples?

Rio Ferdinand.

Less recent, Pep Guardiola, Edgar Davids, Diego Maradona.

WumBuster

I think its obvious most if not all top level Rugby and soccer players are on PED's or blood doping. With the physical demands of playing 40-50 high level matches in a season, training daily and with the amount of money involved in these sports at the top level,on a diet of orange juice and fruitn fibre these lads would be all burning out from exhaustion half way through the season., but they never seem to.
if you look back at old rugby and soccer matches from the 70's and 80's and compare the physical intensity and fitness of modern players, the difference has to be just more than 'superior training methods and professionalism'.

dedocdude

Giruilla wrote: »

Rio Ferdinand.

Less recent, Pep Guardiola, Edgar Davids, Diego Maradona.

Kolo Toure, Paddy Kenny. What about Claudio Ranieri bringing in his own medical team at Chelsea when the club's staff were not keen on performing some of his requests of player treatment?

Lads, done be naive on this subject - its everywhere -