Toyota - what happened?

Leonard Hofstadter

I was looking at beepbeep.ie earlier on today, checking out what the new car sales for 2013 are like compared to last year. After last month's fairly disastrous start, things are less bad for February, with (February 2013) sales down by 'only' 7.5% compared to February 2012.

However, there has been some amount of movement compared to 2012.

Renault have dropped big time (I suspect that's why they're now offering a free 5 year warranty), down over 44%, but they were always going to lose something with the arrival of Dacia, who have registered 129 cars thus far.

Seat have almost tripled their popularity, with over 3% market share, stunning for a crowd that do well do get 1.5% of the market share. I can't understand why they've done so well this year, but then again, cars like the Toledo always appealed to the Irish motorist.

Merc are also down a lot, if Merc is to have any hope of regaining popularity in Ireland then HQ in Stuttgart will get rid of MDL as quick as they can.

On the surface, petrol has regained a small bit of popularity, with a market share of 25.5% compared to 24% last year, but it should be noted that flexifuel cars had nearly 2.5% of the market share last year, and none this year (only 1, yes, 1, flexifuel car was registered so far this year), so really petrol is doing slightly worse. Diesel is now on 74%, a substantial number of those people buying diesels have absolutely no need whatsoever to be buying a diesel, but that's the stupid obsession with CO2 and low tax for you, despite the fact that many petrol engines are in the low tax bands now.

However, I cannot get over what was always Ireland's favourite brand - Toyota. Their sales are down 40% even though the general market is down by 15%:eek:. They're only just clinging on to their second place spot (VW are first) ahead of Ford by about 200 units.

I would have thought the fact that they had a brand new Auris would have helped them a lot this year, not to mention the fact that there are new versions of the Yaris on sale, plus a few other revised models (none of them big sellers admittedly), but obviously not.

Do any of our industry experts know why relatively speaking, Toyota are doing so badly this year?

http://www.beepbeep.ie/stats/?sYear%5B%5D=2013&sYear%5B%5D=2012&sRegType=1&sMonth%5B%5D=&sMonth%5B%5D=&x=36&y=8

Mech1

one, sorry two words. Pre reg.
Toyota dealers probably are not putting as many "demos" on.

For Forks Sake

captainspeed wrote: »

Do any of our industry experts know why relatively speaking, Toyota are doing so badly this year?

Consumers have finally copped on to the fact that there are other brands with:
1. Better design
2. Better price
3. Better spec
4. Comparable quality

for same or less money?

With the exception of the GT86, there's not one car in Toyotas current lineup that I'd spend my own money on.

unkel

captainspeed wrote: »

I cannot get over what was always Ireland's favourite brand - Toyota. Their sales are down 40% even though the general market is down by 15%:eek:

I thought the reason was pretty obvious. Toyota is now redundant. If you want a reliable dull car for basic A-B motoring, you get a Kia / Hyundai. Cheaper and longer warranty too. No brainer really...

Atlantic Dawn

I would say the 0% finance deal is driving VW sales big time, they were almost always top 3 either way.

gravity10

Hyundai are making steady progress with some great cars. . .

unkel

Yep, look at your own link. Hyundai sales up 20% over last year. They'll have double digit growth for the next few years while the market as a whole will be flat

Eating away market share from (mainly) Toyota...

CiniO

What is a flexible fuel car?

bazz26

The Irish like their small saloons and the Corolla is just obsolete now, even the Avensis is looking a bit tired. I would also say that Hyundai and Kia are taking some of their traditional customer base as they offer better value and longer warranties.

BTW I know someone who traded a 10 year old Avensis petrol, one owner from new with only 39k miles on it for a brand new Auris diesel. :eek: He was buying a petrol model but the dealer told him it would be the middle of May before he could get him one.

Leonard Hofstadter

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Consumers have finally copped on to the fact that there are other brands with:
1. Better design
2. Better price
3. Better spec
4. Comparable quality

for same or less money?

With the exception of the GT86, there's not one car in Toyotas current lineup that I'd spend my own money on.

The thing is, even when all the scandal with the unintended acceleration was in full swing Toyota were still on at least 13-14% in Ireland. For years rival manufacturers have been selling cars that were either cheaper, better equipped, had longer warranties, or just simply nicer to be in and to drive, and often, combinations of the above. And, as they often like to boast, they have one of the highest repurchasing rates of any manufacturer in Ireland, something like 90% of people who buy a Toyota buy another.

Which brings me back to where I started - why have they dropped now?

_rebelkid

IMO Toyota should stop using their European design studio, and focus on bringing over the Japanese design ethos. Look at the probox:

It is a car, with an engine, and enough space to house a small solar system. And it's cheap. What do we get, the "I can't believe it's not a Nissan Note" Verso-S.

Toyota need to get back to their origin; functionality, but still refined.

Even if they were to bring over just a few of the Japanese cars, I believe their sales would quite easily either normalize, or surge upward.

http://toyota.jp/carlineup/index.html?ptopid=men

Big Nasty

Toyota are for the most part dull and boring. Have you looked at any of the new Kia or Hyundai models? Generally I don't like Asian cars but Kia and Hyundai are pumping out some really well finished cars the lat few years.

_rebelkid

_rebelkid wrote: »

.........

Even if they were to bring over just a few of the Japanese cars, I believe their sales would quite easily either normalize, or surge upward.

http://toyota.jp/carlineup/index.html?ptopid=men

Some pretty funky Toyota over there...

dgt

RoverJames wrote: »

Some pretty funky Toyota over there...

http://toyota.jp/crownsedan/005_b_006/top/image/top_ttl_mainvisual.jpg

:cool:



Sadly, I doubt anyone here would buy one...

.... can nearly smell the strippers

bigtimecharlie

unkel wrote: »

I thought the reason was pretty obvious. Toyota is now redundant. If you want a reliable dull car for basic A-B motoring, you get a Kia / Hyundai. Cheaper and longer warranty too. No brainer really...

Spot on Unkel. Toyota were always dull a dishwater, they might start every morning never break down but can't ever imagine they would put a smile on my face.

OP, Thanks for the website link, plenty of searching in there.

JohnBoy26

Before when someone bought a Toyota, they bought them for their sheer reliability and outstanding quality that set them apart from the rest. Imo From the early 00s both of these features got less and less with every new model launched.

Today imo they are only avarage in both quality and reliability and are living off the good reputation they built for themselves in late 80's to the late 90's. Newer models
are nowhere near as good as this rep suggests imo.

Imo they have reached the top and are now sliding down the other side of the hill.

The quality that was once atributted to Toyota, is now with Hyundai and Kia imo as these are still climming that hill and in doing so are making high quality vehicles at the moment and are giving long warrenties to back up the high quality they build into their vehicles .

pajo1981

_rebelkid wrote: »

IMO Toyota should stop using their European design studio, and focus on bringing over the Japanese design ethos. Look at the probox:

It is a car, with an engine, and enough space to house a small solar system. And it's cheap. What do we get, the "I can't believe it's not a Nissan Note" Verso-S.

Toyota need to get back to their origin; functionality, but still refined.

Even if they were to bring over just a few of the Japanese cars, I believe their sales would quite easily either normalize, or surge upward.

http://toyota.jp/carlineup/index.html?ptopid=men

Some truly awful looking cars on that link. No wonder they opened a euro design studio.

JohnBoy26

pajo1981 wrote: »

Some truly awful looking cars on that link. No wonder they opened a euro design studio.

Ya and it was this very studio that designed a pig they call the Auris. The first gen was an awfull looking car imo and the facelifted version looks even worse.

_rebelkid

RoverJames wrote: »

Some pretty funky Toyota over there...

Exactly. This one's a V12!

CJhaughey

The Yen hit an all time high in 2012.
This made exports very expensive, and hurt big exporters like Toyota.
If they could I would think they would cut prices a bit to stimulate more sales but the currency strength makes that hard.

darragh_haven

RoverJames wrote: »

.... can nearly smell the strippers

What do strippers smell like......

JohnBoy26

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Yen hit an all time high in 2012.
This made exports very expensive, and hurt big exporters like Toyota.
If they could I would think they would cut prices a bit to stimulate more sales but the currency strength makes that hard.

Imo it's more to do with the quality or lack of it in their cars that people don't go for them as much anymore imo, now of coarse the current recession has a big part to play in it too but their cars were never much if any more expensive than the competition when buying new. Also many models are now built outside Japan in places like the UK and Turkey.

darragh_haven

darragh_haven wrote: »

What do strippers smell like......

WKD, cigarettes and perfume in my experience
I went out with one for a few months but I never saw her at work, the aroma experience was learned as you'd expect years ago, mainly in Leicester

Marcusm

dgt wrote: »

:cool:



Sadly, I doubt anyone here would buy one...

Forms the basis for LPG taxis in Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong. Massive sales and a fantastically comfy cab. Tokyo drivers like to personalise theirs with lace doilies (I kid you not). This car has its place and its a comfy place I like to be driven in!! Lots of rear leg room, plenty of boot space, fantastically strong AC (in HK, you have to put on extra clothes when you get in a cab), automatic doors etc.

Can't imagine many people buy them for private cars tho'.

Matt Simis

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Yen hit an all time high in 2012.
This made exports very expensive, and hurt big exporters like Toyota.
If they could I would think they would cut prices a bit to stimulate more sales but the currency strength makes that hard.

Isnt that the reason Toyota (and others) decentralise production with plants in the Americas and Europe?

Also how do Nissan and Mazda fair, same issue in theory?

Marcusm

RoverJames wrote: »

WKD, cigarettes and perfume in my experience
I went out with one for a few months but I never saw her at work, the aroma experience was learned as you'd expect years ago, mainly in Leicester

A mate of mine recently had a bizarre feeling when his 13 year old started wearing vanilla perfume. He couldn't get it out of his head until he realised that it was the smell of every lapdancer he had even met......

Dwork

The reliability went to pot and so why buy one? If they're just so-so, much like every other car, what's the appeal? It's hardly the badge. There's a reason the canny exporters are only interested in the older '90s models...

Yakuza

Of the new models coming out soon (or just out?), the Prius Plus doesn't look too bad, I have to say. Then again I am a fortysomething with three kids, so stuff like practicality win out over form. As a rule, however, Toyota saloons / hatchbacks have been dull as dishwater.

I saw a GT86 in the flesh the other day (131WW132 iirc)...WANT - it reminded me of my old ST182 Celica in my BK (Before Kids) era - now there was a car!

Leonard Hofstadter

Matt Simis wrote: »

Isnt that the reason Toyota (and others) decentralise production with plants in the Americas and Europe?

Also how do Nissan and Mazda fair, same issue in theory?

Yes. All the big sellers for Toyota in Ireland are built in either central Europe or else Derbyshire. Most Nissans sold in Ireland are built in Sunderland. Mazda I am not sure about, but I think their stuff is still mostly Jap made (probably one of the reasons why with the exception of their in house diesel, their reliability is still so good).

I forgot to mention when I was on about Toyota's relative fall from grace, that they were doing their usual three years' free servicing offer as well for all of January and February.

I see that for March there is a 'special offer' - a choice of either 5,000 km worth of free fuel or three years' free servicing.

Toyota Ireland were getting a lot of slack on facebook for not having a five year warranty back when Toyota introduced it in the UK, but that was a long time ago now.

I also don't understand how it could be reliability related either, sure modern Toyotas are nothing special now, but VW are number one, and whatever about Toyota going downhill, they're still a lot better than Volkswagen. If anything, the gap between the two for reliability has widened over the past 10 years.

Marcusm

Matt Simis wrote: »

Isnt that the reason Toyota (and others) decentralise production with plants in the Americas and Europe?

Also how do Nissan and Mazda fair, same issue in theory?

Nissan has had a plant in Sunderland int he UK for 30 years or so; I think it started with the Bluebird. It's supposedly the most efficient car plant in the world - measured by cars per human worker, I believe. The Qashqai was IIRC conceived, designed and is built there. It's easy to build a new plant without legacy issues and, frankly, in a place with significant engineering legacy (rail, mostly) but which had massive unemployment and thus could deliver a workforce which would work to Japanese parameters. It keeps getting new investment and being extended so it must work, to some extent.

dgt

Marcusm wrote: »

Forms the basis for LPG taxis in Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong. Massive sales and a fantastically comfy cab. Tokyo drivers like to personalise theirs with lace doilies (I kid you not). This car has its place and its a comfy place I like to be driven in!! Lots of rear leg room, plenty of boot space, fantastically strong AC (in HK, you have to put on extra clothes when you get in a cab), automatic doors etc.

Can't imagine many people buy them for private cars tho'.

Are you sure you are talking about the Toyota Century I put up?! :pac:

Marcusm

dgt wrote: »

Are you sure you are talking about the Toyota Century I put up?! :pac:

You're right in that it was the basic Crown version I was referring to; so far as I can tell, it's the same body just different trim level and engine - the interior looks the same (just yours has a few more gadgets!).

gk5000

They need to start with a new logo, the stylised T is so boring and non-descript.

They are one of the only car companies that need to have their name on their cars because the logo is so poor.

Sounds silly, but they need to change the company from the logo up/down.

Frankie Lee

The change of major dealerships in Kearys and Fitzpatricks would not help their sales either.

The man in charge since 2009 Akio Toyoda is hoping to bring Toyota back to its high standards and is the man responsible for the GT86 .

JohnBoy26

Frankie Lee wrote: »

The change of major dealerships in Kearys and Fitzpatricks would not help their sales either.

The man in charge since 2009 Akio Toyoda is hoping to bring Toyota back to its high standards and is the man responsible for the GT86 .

He's going the right way about it too:eek::rolleyes:

delly

Wasn't there a load of toyota Garda cars regged in Jan '12? This would make the comparison somewhat skewed with this year.

solas111

I have bought quite a few Toyota cars over the years and had intended to buy another one at the start of this year. However, I now drive a Hyundai i30 1.6 diesel and am very happy with it.

My first preference was a second-hand Avensis but one look at the prices was enough. I then considered a second-hand Auris and despite what some here seem to think, it was a lovely car. However, the price was again far too high even considering that I was prepared to pay over the odds in order to stick with the garage where I bought most of my cars and who have given a great service.

Next, I visited the Toyota dealer and got a price for a new Auris. Again, I thought that they were overpriced and living on the past good reputation that Toyota has had. Someone suggested a new Kia model which unfortunately was out of my price range. It was then that I started to look at Kia’s cousin Hyundai. I probably had Hyundai well down the list but a combination of factors made it a very attractive proposition.

One of the things that put me off buying another Toyota was that they had changed so little over many years. Additionally, although Toyota gave me unbeatable reliability, the price of buying a new model was just too high. Thirdly, although overall reliability was high, there were small things that let them down somewhat. I could think of several items and although the car radio would not be that important feature for me, it was a good example of poor quality in my Toyota Corolla. I noticed that there were some English manufactured parts being used and if I wanted English parts I would have bought one of those unreliable Rovers or some other part English make.

Low road tax and mpg may not matter to some but they do matter to many. I calculated that the savings on those two items, spread over several years would go a long way towards a new 1.6 Hyundai as opposed to buying a second-hand 1.3 Auris Luna.

CJhaughey

gk5000 wrote: »

They need to start with a new logo, the stylised T is so boring and non-descript.

They are one of the only car companies that need to have their name on their cars because the logo is so poor.

Sounds silly, but they need to change the company from the logo up/down.

Change it again? Do you remember their previous badge?

Indricotherium

solas111 wrote: »

I have bought quite a few Toyota cars over the years and had intended to buy another one at the start of this year. However, I now drive a Hyundai i30 1.6 diesel and am very happy with it.

My first preference was a second-hand Avensis but one look at the prices was enough. I then considered a second-hand Auris and despite what some here seem to think, it was a lovely car. However, the price was again far too high even considering that I was prepared to pay over the odds in order to stick with the garage where I bought most of my cars and who have given a great service.

Next, I visited the Toyota dealer and got a price for a new Auris. Again, I thought that they were overpriced and living on the past good reputation that Toyota has had. Someone suggested a new Kia model which unfortunately was out of my price range. It was then that I started to look at Kia’s cousin Hyundai. I probably had Hyundai well down the list but a combination of factors made it a very attractive proposition.

One of the things that put me off buying another Toyota was that they had changed so little over many years. Additionally, although Toyota gave me unbeatable reliability, the price of buying a new model was just too high. Thirdly, although overall reliability was high, there were small things that let them down somewhat. I could think of several items and although the car radio would not be that important feature for me, it was a good example of poor quality in my Toyota Corolla. I noticed that there were some English manufactured parts being used and if I wanted English parts I would have bought one of those unreliable Rovers or some other part English make.

Low road tax and mpg may not matter to some but they do matter to many. I calculated that the savings on those two items, spread over several years would go a long way towards a new 1.6 Hyundai as opposed to buying a second-hand 1.3 Auris Luna.

If a new Kia is out of your price range I don't know what you hoped to achieve looking at a new auris.

Seems like you're bashing the brand because its out of your price range.

AugustusMinimus

captainspeed wrote: »

However, I cannot get over what was always Ireland's favourite brand - Toyota.

No it wasn't. Up until about 10 years ago, Ford was Ireland's number 1 brand for years and years. Maybe since the early part of the 20th century.

cpoh1

I never got the toyota boring comments.


How the avensis is more boring than a mondeo, passat, mazda 6, or any other snore fest saloon is beyond me.

Having drivena ll of the above I must say they are all equally dull and merely to be used for getting from a to b.

00833827

dgt wrote: »

:cool:



Sadly, I doubt anyone here would buy one...

i agree but its class! Id love one!

AugustusMinimus

cpoh1 wrote: »

I never got the toyota boring comments.


How the avensis is more boring than a mondeo, passat, mazda 6, or any other snore fest saloon is beyond me.

Having drivena ll of the above I must say they are all equally dull and merely to be used for getting from a to b.

Styling wise, the Avensis/Carina IMO has always been behind the curve. Not sure if it was blander or not than the old Vectra. That's a debate for the ages.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Styling wise, the Avensis/Carina IMO has always been behind the curve............

Carina wasn't bad at all, Avensis beyond the mark 1 are woeful imo.

bridgepeople

I was just looking at the sales figures for this year. Volkswagen group now has a massive 28% share in Ireland! I think they are around 25% in Europe overall which is phenomenal.

Hyundai's biggest seling model by far is the ix35. Between that and the Santa Fe, you're looking at 40% of Hyundai's sales. Toyota is launching its new Rav4 this month so that should see them pick up share again. The old model was really dated and sold almost nothing in the first two months of the year.

Also, have to mention the Nissan Qashqai which is the top selling car in Ireland this year just pipping the new Golf. That is pretty amazing when you consider it is almost at the end of its life. Irish people really love their SUVs it seems!

ShadowHearth

I think lads already answered that question in this thread.

If you wanted soulless car with zero character and A to B driving that Toyota was your best bet. Now you got 2 more competitors out there ( Kia and Hyundai ), which can do everything same, cheaper and in some cases those two brands are a lot more attractive to look at then Toyota.
We had Toyota dealer in Mallow before and now it is Hyundai . I pass by that dealer for the last 5 years almost daily. I have to admit my eye got cough more then once by the cars outside there when it changed in to Hyundai. Even today my eye got cough on those 3 door i30, which look fantastic in flesh. No wonder these brands doing so well and Toyota is just going down.

AugustusMinimus

Am I right in saying that Ireland is the European country with Toyota's biggest market share ?

IIRC as well, Ireland and Finland are the only two European countries where the Corolla is presently being sold.

Zubeneschamali

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Am I right in saying that Ireland is the European country with Toyota's biggest market share ?

Nationalism/protectionism/pride/whatever you want to call it limits Japanese sales in a lot of Europe.

Zubeneschamali

bridgepeople wrote: »

Hyundai's biggest seling model by far is the ix35. Between that and the Santa Fe, you're looking at 40% of Hyundai's sales.

Yes, but they've been selling competitive SUVs for years. They've only just started making cars better than the Avensis and Auris recently, and I'd expect their growth sales to be in those segments, not SUVs where they are well established.

solas111

Indricotherium wrote: »

If a new Kia is out of your price range I don't know what you hoped to achieve looking at a new auris.

Seems like you're bashing the brand because its out of your price range.

Your analysis is incorrect and I am not bashing any brand. I would have liked to have bought the Kia but the particular model that I was looking at was out of my price range. I would not bash Toyota either because they have given me a lot of trouble-free motoring over the years and while the “boring Toyota” brigade are entitled to their opinions, I would respectfully disagree with their point of view.