Alarm advice

deisediva

Looking at getting an alarm at the moment. House is not wired for an alarm, wondering what is best to go for wired or wireless. I do not have landline anymore well have phone but with UPC so what are my options ?

I want to alarm all windows and doors rang a company ages ago and they said no just PIR sensors and alarm the doors. I want windows alarmed as that way they don't get into my house.

Also have read about GSM and them being jammed ? Would I be better to try get a company to wire my house rather than wireless ?

Does everyone get alarms monitored and what roughly does it cost per year?

Sorry for all the questions but want to get a few companys out this week to quote and would like to have an idea of what they are talking about .

KoolKid

Go for either a fully wireless system or a hybrid system.
For fully wireless look at the Visonic Powermax or the HKC Quantum .
For a hybrid system look at Siemens SPC range or the HKC 1070.
Do no accept a system with just PiRs, these are giving you very little protection as a burglar is in your house before the system activates.
Also if you are looking at monitoring you need a secondary activation for Garda response. With a system like this the burglar has to pass 2 PiRs . Now what use is that?? Guys quoting for these systems are looking for the quick install with little regard for risk assessment. Best avoided.
GSM being jammed has nothing to do with wireless alarms this only affects systems monitored over the GSM network. Despite what Eircom say, you can monitor your alarm over UPC or any other providers lines. The only down side here is those lines are dependent on mains power.
Monitoring prices vary a lot as does what they cover. Shop around.
Get at least 3 quotes. Don't accept a quote over the phone , someone should call to ensure you are getting the correct specification.
With maintenance & monitoring you should be getting a full maintenance cover. This should cover all call outs & labour. Be wary of companies who limit this to 1 or 2 call outs. Why should you be charged a call out if they don't fix something properly.
For service maintenance & monitoring with the above cover expect to pay €250 - €350 per annum depending on the size of the property.
Again get in writing whats covered. Also bear in mind the system is guaranteed for the first year so any maintenance & monitoring packages should be adjusted to allow for this.

deisediva

Is there a way around the power cut problem ? Like some sort of back up ? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

I will get a few quotes assuming they will give me details of system as I haven't a clue.

House is 3 bed , front door with French doors to back 4 downstairs windows and 2 skylights to single storey extension. Should I get the skylights alarmed too ?

KoolKid

deisediva wrote: »

Is there a way around the power cut problem ? Like some sort of back up ? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

Not a stupid question at all. You can fit a UPS back up power supply. But bear in mind if there is a power cut in the area there is a good chance UPCs service would be down anyway.

deisediva wrote: »

I will get a few quotes assuming they will give me details of system as I haven't a clue.

As part of EN50131 they are obliged to provide you with a written System Design Proposal.

deisediva wrote: »

House is 3 bed , front door with French doors to back 4 downstairs windows and 2 skylights to single storey extension. Should I get the skylights alarmed too ?

If they are used much yes look for contacts on them. Its very easy to go out & leave a skylight open.

Thunderbird2

I would go with a GSM unit rather then the UPC . It's rare to see jammers used on residential systems and the UPC would be more vulnerable then the GSM as it is run down along the wall or accessible via a service box at the side of the house ....
And with the GSM you can arm and disarm the system remotely if the alarm goes off and it can text you which is much better and more efficient then the voice ...
The only really very secure method is monitoring by radio or a very secure phone line or polling GSMs ......( take into mind that they will be willing to climb up the service polls to cut lines .)
Wireless 2 way sensors are the best to go for ( no sleep times on the RF PIRS)

KoolKid

I would disagree. I have come across landlines tampered with and GSMs jammed but I haven't come across anyone trying to cut or tamper with UPC. If you want GSM for remote access them back it up withu UPC. You could also go with Siemens and get full remote access via their built in web server.

Thunderbird2

won't be long till they cop on .... I wouldn't even call it tampering since it won't generate a line fault on UPC if the lines cut .......

KoolKid

I'd say that it won't be long till people cop on to the risks of Gsm jamming. After all that needs no physical tampering at all and that would not generate any fault. Can you explain what you mean by UPC would not register a line fault.?

Thunderbird2

try remove the coax cable while the unit is powered up and tell me what voltage you have at phone point 1

KoolKid

Tried that and my alarm registered and reports line fauult.

Thunderbird2

Is that detecting the line fault or an Internet fault since its IP you're using (Siemens) ?

KoolKid

You really need to do your research on these systems.
Line fault refers to the phone line going down. It shows on system alerts & in the modem log. The modem has nothing to do with IP.

Thunderbird2

Sorry it's just your reply confused me since the phone line on the UPC modems is powered from the transformer and not the coax line . I don't know about the Siemens panels but HKC and most other diallers just look for voltage and not tones . Removing the coax isn't removing the voltage. Just trying to find out how you were connecting your panel to the UPC .. Thought you were using the IP feature

KoolKid

Like I said you need to do your research on these panels. You seem to be getting confused between phone line faults & the IP . They are 2 totally seperate things.
The phone line comes from the line out of the UPC modem. The IP comes from a network connection on the router. If the cable is disconnected the phone line disappears. The panel shows line fault. Referring to the phone line not the IP.
The IP connection is not monitored by the panel & IP dropping off does not log or register a fault.

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Sorry it's just your reply confused me since the phone line on the UPC modems is powered from the transformer and not the coax line . I don't know about the Siemens panels but HKC and most other diallers just look for voltage and not tones . Removing the coax isn't removing the voltage. Just trying to find out how you were connecting your panel to the UPC .. Thought you were using the IP feature

The panel is looking for Voltage rather than a dial tone.
If the coax is removed and there is still voltage coming from the phone port then it would not register as a line fault.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Tried that and my alarm registered and reports line fauult.

I have not tested this but since you have UPC you will be able to test it.
Did you remove the mains power going to the UPC modem or the Coax cable for this?

Thunderbird2

Are you using the old or new UPC modem ? Either way they are fed off the one coax but separate PSUs

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Are you using the old or new UPC modem ? Either way they are fed off the one coax but separate PSUs

Do you know if there is still voltage coming out of the phone port on the UPC modem with the coax Not Mains removed?

KoolKid

Apologies ,reading over this in one go again I see I have been reading this all wrong . Yes removing the Co-Ax on its own will not register a line fault. This is not a major thing though. If your out the line is gone either way. If your in you can set your smart phone or other devices to give you instant alerts.

KoolKid

Better still is the UPC cable is boxed put a contact on it & programme it as tamper.

Thunderbird2

Only with IP though ??
Guess my research isn't that bad . Hehe
You're forgiven

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Only with IP though ??

How do you mean, only with IP?
Bringing the IP into it is what got me TBH:o

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

Apologies ,reading over this in one go again I see I have been reading this all wrong . Yes removing the Co-Ax on its own will not register a line fault. This is not a major thing though. If your out the line is gone either way. If your in you can set your smart phone or other devices to give you instant alerts.

Only with IP would you get alerts ?
Like if it failed to poll to the sever would the server not let you know ?
With diallers if its gone its gone

KoolKid

Correct, but what I'm say is if you have UPC for phone & broadband you could set up your smart phone or other internet device to alert you when your internet goes down. If your internet is down your phone is down.
That's not dependent on having an IP panel.

altor

Not the way UPC run there cables.
Some company's will not monitor an alarm over UPC because of this.
Anyway looks like Thunderbird was correct all along.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Not the way UPC run there cables.

A lot of newer places have them underground & in service boxes.

altor wrote: »

Some company's will not monitor an alarm over UPC because of this.

And some just want to sell you a GSM

altor wrote: »

Anyway looks like Thunderbird was correct all along.

I'm happy to say he was.;)

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

A lot of newer places have them underground & in service boxes.

Yes but there are more older houses that don't.
The down side to the underground & in service boxes as you say is the top of these estates have a service box to that can take out the whole estate.
Now I know you have to be using UPC in the first place but that is who we are referring too.

KoolKid wrote: »

And some just want to sell you a GSM

There are still plenty of options available, good or bad they all have pros and cons attached to them.

KoolKid wrote: »

I'm happy to say he was.;)

Me to, just so there is no confusion

deisediva

Had someone out to price and they are quoting for a Visonic system. 5 windows with Wireless shock sensor with contact, 1 Wireless motion sensor on landing, back and front doors with Wireless contact , 2 key fobs panel and box outside. He is going to monitor from the UPC connection for phone line.

Reading up this seems to be a very basic system am I better off to price around for a better system or would that be ok ? If it's not a good system what should I be looking for.

KoolKid

You should always price around. Is that system covering all the ground floor & accessible points in the house?
Was there a price on that spec?
Monitoring on the UPC works fine as long as your aware of the limitations re power cuts & the cable being cut. If the UPC line is coming in underground as that the box be alarmed as well.

deisediva

Upc is in a box at side of house . No idea if its underground .
Price given €800 includes all downstairs and 1 room upstairs that has access. I also have 2 skylights in room extension that will cost extra 40/50 each if I want them alarmed. Getting monitored thrown in for year free .

Is there another option other than the Wireless shock sensor with contact as in just contacts as imagine if the shock sensor ones got a bang from a football they would go off.

Got another quote over phone as well from another company for 1250 not monitored .

Am so confused about all these options putting me off getting one lol

KoolKid

For €800 that price is not too bad for what your getting.
Sensors are a must for downstairs & accessible windows. You can go with contacts only but if a window is broke the alarm will not activate.
The price for extra devices is reasonable as well.
The UPC seems to be coming in underground so maybe consider getting that box protected with a contact as well.

fred funk }{

Visonic would be one of the cheaper alarms, that's probably why there's such a difference in price to others.

It's importent to compare like for like with quotations.

KoolKid

There's much cheaper than Visonic going around. Like for like there is not a lot between the brands. Maybe hold out for the Powermaster and you really would be comparing like with like and see the difference.

deisediva

Not going to rush into just yet will ring a few more places. Guy told me no need for dummy box on back of house and in next sentence said most houses are robbed from the back .